what did JVR do here that warranted more then schenn? A lot of guys have potential, very few live up to it...That was the risk of that trade. Overall i think the flyers got what they needed from that trade.
- Philly1980

He played 2 seasons. If we would have traded G after two seasons people would have ended up poopting rocks.

Very few players come into the league and tear it up. VERY FEW. They are the exception really. JvR was prime to break out last season, but had injuries set that back big time. Really battled through some painful, debilitating stuff.

Fast forward to this season. He is healthy, playing on a top line, and doing what?

Oh, only 8 goals in 13 games, a 50 goal pace in an 82 game season. Do I expect this pace to continue? No, but I do expect him to be much more consistent..

I think New Jersey is an interesting case. Everyone has bought into their system and the personnel, while not overly talented, is the perfect mix to execute said system nearly flawlessly. A classic example of a great team but only decent players.
- NickTheKid87

Bingo. This is consistently the case with them. Doing more with less on paper

I like Lavy. Some of his decisions this year have seemed questionable but they'll all be questioned when the team struggles. If they are still below .500 by the half way point or at least game 30, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get fired.
- NickTheKid87

Don't get me wrong; I don't think it's right to pin everything on Laviolette.

But we all know that's how things go when they go poorly in the effort department.

Change is fine as long as it's not change for the sake of change. When you build with young players, you're going o have nights like last night.

San Jose got steamrolled by Columbus last night. I doubt that Joe Pavelski is worrying about finding a new apartment.
- Jsaquella

True, but unfortunately when you are looking up at the 8th position in the standings, you will most likely have to overpay a bit to get what you believe will help you.

And it's not the young players who are the problem necessarily. It's the seasoned vet leaders as well as those who were given an expanded role and expected to take the next step forward who have fallen way short of their expectations to date, which is scary.

I like Lavy. Some of his decisions this year have seemed questionable but they'll all be questioned when the team struggles. If they are still below .500 by the half way point or at least game 30, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get fired.
- NickTheKid87

I can see it too but I wouldn't like it. Just wish this team would get their heads out of their asses and play like pros on a consistent basis.

yea uh see 1997 finals.
- JoeRussomanno

I was there. My observation: The Flyers were never in the games. Detroit was big, fast and skilled. The Flyers might have been bigger but they looked slow. Lindros was next to invisible. At times it looked liked the Wings were toying with the Flyers.

the whole size is better thing went right out the window didn't it.
- JoeRussomanno

yup that team was so fast....they skated around our 200lb pylons. Lesson learned. You need diversity to win a mix of fast and big...

The defensive coverage, team wide, was atrocious last night. Not going to beat anyone playing that way.

They got 46 shots, but created no traffic for them and didn't fight for many second chances.
- Jsaquella

It has been terrible in almost every game so far this year. The only reason it hasn't been a bigger issue is because of Bryz's play thus far. He's been bailing out the defense time after time (no cyndi lauper crap plz) and we all knew that when Bryz cooled off a little things would get ugly.

Bryz has cooled off a little and things are going to get much uglier.

This is not a cup contending team. Nothing is going to change that outside of bringing in different players.

IMO anyway..

Don't get me wrong; I don't think it's right to pin everything on Laviolette.

But we all know that's how things go when they go poorly in the effort department.
- johndewar

The coach is the first to get the ax when the team is playing uninspired or seemingly lacks chemistry. It's a shame too because half the time (or more) it's not the coach's fault.

I'd like to just point out while the JVR/Schenn debate heats up, that A) I can really see both sides of this argument.

B) what JVR did to schenn last night really shouldn't be held against Schenn cause JVR did that to Chara in the playoffs a couple years ago so in no shape or form does it impact Schenn's value to me.

I can see it too but I wouldn't like it. Just wish this team would get their heads out of their asses and play like pros on a consistent basis.
- JoeRussomanno

I wouldn't like it just like I didn't like Hitchcock getting canned in 06-07. That team was just horrendous.

LOL heres a fact....the whole bunch of them were partying @ ladder 15 off samson street a few nights ago:

Giroux, V, Rinaldo, Schenn, Simmonds...

Trade them all

I'd like to just point out while the JVR/Schenn debate heats up, that A) I can really see both sides of this argument.

B) what JVR did to schenn last night really shouldn't be held against Schenn cause JVR did that to Chara in the playoffs a couple years ago so in no shape or form does it impact Schenn's value to me.
- JoeRussomanno

It was also after the team had pretty much surrendered. It's not like it was a 1 goal game or anything.

I wouldn't like it just like I didn't like Hitchcock getting canned in 06-07. That team was just horrendous.
- NickTheKid87

I hated firing hitch then too. Can't make candy out of crap and that was what they expected hitch to do.

I'd like to just point out while the JVR/Schenn debate heats up, that A) I can really see both sides of this argument.

B) what JVR did to schenn last night really shouldn't be held against Schenn cause JVR did that to Chara in the playoffs a couple years ago so in no shape or form does it impact Schenn's value to me.
- JoeRussomanno

TORONTO (frank)ERS....Already annointed JVR as the next one....wait till he hits a cold streak LOL

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 2/12/13 @ Jets
- bmeltzer

I gotta tell you, I think this team is exactly what they have shown. Plenty of potential but but overall, too young. Then the players who aren't too young, we have over valued. I look at Hartnell and Briere as very good players. Stars in their own right but not super stars. Speaking for myself, once we allowed Jagr, JvR and Carle walk, I never felt like we replaced them. I have no doubt this team will get back on track there the powers of great management but I think it is more likely to happen in the offseason. For those who really want a Bobby Ryan, I think he has a spot open here, I just don't see either side making such a deal until the offseason when the cap drops, and the Ducks are forced to make a decision on Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlef.

I was there. My observation: The Flyers were never in the games. Detroit was big, fast and skilled. The Flyers might have been bigger but they looked slow. Lindros was next to invisible. At times it looked liked the Wings were toying with the Flyers.
- 2731color

So having size isn't the end all then, which is what my point was. Size is good but if you understand the dynamics of leverage and coordination, then size can be nullified. It comes down to individual skill, team cohesion and desire imo anyway. But if people want to go on a size kick like we did in the 90's be my guest.

TORONTO (frank)ERS....Already annointed JVR as the next one....wait till he hits a cold streak LOL
- Philly1980

If I'm lavy I hang this up in the locker room before the next meeting with the leafs.

LOL heres a fact....the whole bunch of them were partying @ ladder 15 off samson street a few nights ago:

Giroux, V, Rinaldo, Schenn, Simmonds...

Trade them all
- Philly1980

I heard V entered a dumpling eating contest and couldn't finish it off

I'd like to just point out while the JVR/Schenn debate heats up, that A) I can really see both sides of this argument.

B) what JVR did to schenn last night really shouldn't be held against Schenn cause JVR did that to Chara in the playoffs a couple years ago so in no shape or form does it impact Schenn's value to me.
- JoeRussomanno

Yea, but it's a lightning rod for those who opposed the trade from the get go. And to toss fuel into the fire, all the reports out of TO which stated Luke was too slow a foot to make a difference on defense have a little more merit today.

If I'm lavy I hang this up in the locker room before the next meeting with the leafs.
- JoeRussomanno

if he were to hang something up after every bad game, he would run out of room fast....I would rather have them be horrible this season, rather than mediocre. At least get a top draft pick.

Yea, but it's a lightning rod for those who opposed the trade from the get go. And to toss fuel into the fire, all the reports out of TO which stated Luke was too slow a foot to make a difference on defense have a little more merit today.
- 77rams

JVr is a pretty fast skater and like I mentioned; was able to do that or a move like it on an elite defenseman in the playoffs. If he can do it to chara he's gonna do it to a lot of guys. Youre right tho it will be fuel to the fire but if they look at it objectively they'll see it my way, at least they should imo.

my sentiments exactly. having subtracted forwards from this lineup, i would have wanted homer to expand the deal to bring back another forward w/ some kind of scoring potential - like kadri- to give us another asset. maybe JVR and a 2nd or 3rd for schenn and kadri. not that i'm in love w/ kadri, but from a value standpoint.
- isaiah520

Wanting something to happen, and having it be a realistic return, are two different things. Wanting more in return is just playing fantasy Hockey.

Yea, but it's a lightning rod for those who opposed the trade from the get go. And to toss fuel into the fire, all the reports out of TO which stated Luke was too slow a foot to make a difference on defense have a little more merit today.
- 77rams

Schenn is not the pylon hes been made out to be....I agree with you though on that play he got schooled bad.

I have to say, while I don't think the JVR goal was a huge deal in the bigger picture (just a pile on goal in a blow out game), I hope it gets under the Flyers' skin. I hope they circle February 25 and prepare to return the favor for last night.