Was he consistent...No.
- Philly1980

that has nothing to do with showing he can reach his potential. Luke Schenn wasn't consistent either. In fact most young players are inconsistent.

i think the tagging space issue makes it all a little clearer.
- OrangeBlack27

but he could have had the same deal on July 1?

or are we just going with that the Flyers put him on the backburner as plan C, behind Suter and Weber, and he decided not to wait for them?

Carle for sure, which leads me to believe that the management MUST have reached out to him at some point. Maybe Matt's agent knew he could get a huge payday if he waited it out. Seems logical that they'd at least attempt to re-sign him in season. They have done it time and time again. But I'm making an inference.
- NickTheKid87

My point here is that they had the guy they needed. And he would come considerably cheaper than Suter (IMO an upgrade, but not dramatically) . Weber to me was a spur of the moment thing. I dont think they had planned in March to OS Weber. So they played chicken with Carle, went and lost out on both Suter and Praise, Carle and Weber. It was a high risk/ high reward move. poop happens. Im not pinning this all on Homer... but he also has a part in where we are right now.

I pray they dont just go crazy and start blowing stuff up.

there's still something fishy about that whole scenario. who backs down from a handshake agreement? we may never know what really happened.
- bradleyc4

jerkfaces that's who

I think webs would have gone to CBJ if they threw that money at him...For him it was a win win.
- Philly1980

i bet he had a lot of offers, he chose the flyers

on July 1, they still could have signed carle, but they obvi went in a diff direction.
- isaiah520

Absolutely. All they had to do was meet the price.

I was not the only one who wanted more for JVR . look it up...were all of those people playing fantasy hockey or were they just making a value judgment?
- isaiah520

I think that Philly believes the Schenn's will develop further together than they were apart, which is an odd bet to play considering you're losing, a big, powerful winger who can put away garbage goals. JVR and LSchenn are both good players, top-5 picks, but we'll see in the next few years who won the trade.

Like I said early, we have all seen JVR play like he is in Toronto right now as you mentioned. What we haven't seen is him do that on a consistent basis. We'll see how things progress for him but he's far from proven.
- NickTheKid87

he's definitely progressing toward being proven as of late

Doesn't matter who wanted more. It matters what the market is. Just throwing names like wanting Kadri is playing fantasy Hockey. That's overvaluing JVR. And not thinking the Flyers got enough, is undervaluing Luke Schenn in my opinion.
- MJL

the perceived value of schenn is obviously the difference. if you only think he's a second-pair guy at his best, then yeah, you'll take the 30-goal guy, of course.

My point here is that they had the guy they needed. And he would come considerably cheaper than Suter (IMO an upgrade, but not dramatically) . Weber to me was a spur of the moment thing. I dont think they had planned in March to OS Weber. So they played chicken with Carle, went and lost out on both Suter and Praise, Carle and Weber. It was a high risk/ high reward move. poop happens. Im not pinning this all on Homer... but he also has a part in where we are right now.

I pray they dont just go crazy and start blowing stuff up.
- jak521

I agree that Homer definitely gets a share of the blame, as does Lavy, the players, the staff, etc. but the Weber offer sheet was fun, wasn't it?

but he could have had the same deal on July 1?

or are we just going with that the Flyers put him on the backburner as plan C, behind Suter and Weber, and he decided not to wait for them?
- bradleyc4

that's gotta be it, right?

edit: i mean, homer was hoping to have him re-signed to what he publicly said was less than market value. they tested the waters with suter and parise with carle in their back pocket. then he and his agent got some calls and wanted to make a decision and not have it drag out.

I think that Philly believes the Schenn's will develop further together than they were apart, which is an odd bet to play considering you're losing, a big, powerful winger who can put away garbage goals. JVR and LSchenn are both good players, top-5 picks, but we'll see in the next few years who won the trade.
- Compeyson

why does it have to be about winning the trade? why can't anyone see it for what it was: two teams trading surplus to address weakness?

My point here is that they had the guy they needed. And he would come considerably cheaper than Suter (IMO an upgrade, but not dramatically) . Weber to me was a spur of the moment thing. I dont think they had planned in March to OS Weber. So they played chicken with Carle, went and lost out on both Suter and Praise, Carle and Weber. It was a high risk/ high reward move. poop happens. Im not pinning this all on Homer... but he also has a part in where we are right now.

I pray they dont just go crazy and start blowing stuff up.
- jak521

I think the OS was due to frustration. I think the Flyers were in talks for a significant amount of time trying to trade for Weber. I think they truly felt they were going to get him one way or the other.

he's definitely progressing toward being proven as of late
- JoeRussomanno

And I wish him all the best. I hope and believe that he'll become a perennial 30 goal scorer like we thought he'd be. I know we'd have people crying about the trade but under no circumstances will I wish a player ill in order to feed my own satisfaction that we "won" the trade.

but he could have had the same deal on July 1?

or are we just going with that the Flyers put him on the backburner as plan C, behind Suter and Weber, and he decided not to wait for them?
- bradleyc4

exactly how i see it.

that's gotta be it, right?

edit: i mean, homer was hoping to have him re-signed to what he publicly said was less than market value. they tested the waters with suter and parise and carle and his agent got some calls and wanted to take the offer.
- OrangeBlack27

why would they announce that during the season if they didn't think they had a (handshake) deal?

why does it have to be about winning the trade? why can't anyone see it for what it was: two teams trading surplus to address weakness?
- JoeRussomanno

you know where you are, right?

I think the OS was due to frustration. I think the Flyers were in talks for a significant amount of time trying to trade for Weber. I think they truly felt they were going to get him one way or the other.
- MJL

I may be off chronologically here, it has been some time, but didnt they offer contracts to both Suter and Parise, prior to the OS?

If that is the case, they lost out big on two guys they thought they were gonna be able to buy, and moved onto plan B.. Weber.

And I wish him all the best. I hope and believe that he'll become a perennial 30 goal scorer like we thought he'd be. I know we'd have people crying about the trade but under no circumstances will I wish a player ill in order to feed my own satisfaction that we "won" the trade.
- NickTheKid87

Offensively, I think he has the ability to dominate games. A game changer. If he can do what he has been doing so far this season, he will be a truly dominant forward in this league for a long time.

I may be off chronologically here, it has been some time, but didnt they offer contracts to both Suter and Parise, prior to the OS?

If that is the case, they lost out big on two guys they thought they were gonna be able to buy, and moved onto plan B.. Weber.
- jak521

July 4, 2012 - Suter & Parise sign with Wild
July 4, 2012 - Carle signs with TB
July 19, 2012 - Flyers sign Weber to OS

My mistake, Weber was plan C.

I agree that Homer definitely gets a share of the blame, as does Lavy, the players, the staff, etc. but the Weber offer sheet was fun, wasn't it?
- NickTheKid87

My brother called me at 2am. i called my brother in law at 2:05. We all cried a week later.

July 4, 2012 - Suter & Parise sign with Wild
July 4, 2012 - Carle signs with TB
July 19, 2012 - Flyers sign Weber to OS

My mistake, Weber was plan C.
- NickTheKid87

Ok thats what I thought. I think they were desperate, and knew they would have to give up WAY too much to land him via trade.

you know where you are, right?
- Don'tForgetTocchet

July 4, 2012 - Suter & Parise sign with Wild
July 4, 2012 - Carle signs with TB
July 19, 2012 - Flyers sign Weber to OS

My mistake, Weber was plan C.
- NickTheKid87

should've traded for weber's rights at the draft

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