Thats why its important to build your farm system. When you trade away picks year after year its hard to do that.
- stveshdy

There's probably zero NHL teams that have a kid in the AHL that can step in and replace a Kimmo Timonen right now.

I don't disagree that Gus and Manning are more appealing options than Lilja, Foster and Gervais. But they're not replacing Timonen. If Weber goes down, Nashville can't replace him and they are a defenseman factory.

There's probably zero NHL teams that have a kid in the AHL that can step in and replace a Kimmo Timonen right now.

I don't disagree that Gus and Manning are more appealing options than Lilja, Foster and Gervais. But they're not replacing Timonen. If Weber goes down, Nashville can't replace him and they are a defenseman factory.
- Jsaquella

I don't disagree with that at all. I do think Gust and Manning can replace Foster, Gervais or Lilja.

also, i think that was my last visit to the devils arena. they don't cheer for their team when they score, they say to the opponent "you suck"

if a kid playing sports did that you'd say they had very poor sportsmanship, what a horrible group of rude a-holes in there. i thought if i got tickets down low people might be better behaved, but nope, our neighbors were once again rude jerks.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I abhor that chant. You'd think their fanbase was comprised 100% of thirteen year olds with that chant (ironically, to the pedophile song).

The offseason isn't a store, you can't just go have everything you want at a set price. We all know the story of this offseason, too. You can say the Flyers miscalculated and/or whiffed, but you can't say it was a lack of effort. I don't think anybody is 'surprised', either.
- BulliesPhan87

It's funny that you can say the same thing about the offseason and what the story of the season so far is.

The effort is there, but not the execution.

I don't disagree with that at all. I do think Gust and Manning can replace Foster, Gervais or Lilja.
- stveshdy

I'm not arguing that part. I've been saying for awhile I'd rather have Gus than Foster.

It's funny that you can say the same thing about the offseason and what the story of the season so far is.

The effort is there, but not the execution.
- feelingkettle

Did you see the games in TB and Toronto?

Its not really a fear.

I just have a concern that even next off-season might not be as good as what we had hoped for.

I do think this team needs some serious talent infused.

The Flyers love to use the term retool, it will be interesting to see what they do.

Did you see the games in TB and Toronto?
- PLindbergh31

Most of the time, the effort is there. I think we all know those were pooper games.

It's funny that you can say the same thing about the offseason and what the story of the season so far is.

The effort is there, but not the execution.
- feelingkettle

My biggest issue is that there's no sign of being able to adjust. It's as if, when something doesn't work, they seem to simply try harder to make it work, rather than try something different.

Granted the defense is ugly. But the forwards are doing a poor job of supporting them. And as ugly as the defense is, adjustments can be made to mitigate their shortcomings.

I'm not arguing that part. I've been saying for awhile I'd rather have Gus than Foster.
- Jsaquella

That's my only point is that I rather see Gustafsson and Manning in the lineup. When the Flyers get back Timonen and Mez they can decide what to do when the time comes. Why not give these two kids an opportunity instead of playing Foster, Gervais or Lilja. Those guys have more experience no question but they still aren't very good and I don't see any drop off replacing those guys with younger, more mobile defenseman who could have a future with the team.

I don't disagree with that at all. I do think Gust and Manning can replace Foster, Gervais or Lilja.
- stveshdy

Why was Lilja signed to a two year deal to begin with? Why was Shelley signed to a 3 year deal? Matt Walker... Please.... Leighton brought back for a third time is nonsense. Miscalculating the market this off-season, Selling low on JVR... it goes on and on. Holmgren has made a bunch of poor moves as the GM.

The defense is a mess with Timonen and Mez out no question. However, I would take Gustafsson over Foster, Gervais, and Lilja. Hes a better skater than all three IMO and can move the puck.

Whats the deal with Manning? I don't understand why the Flyers don't trust their younger defenseman and give them an opportunity to play. You only can get better with experience and not allowing them to play doesn't help their game IMO. Instead we keep sticking out players who are over the hill and have no future with the club.

Maybe they feel these kids aren't ready like Gust and Manning but I rather go down with these players if it was up to me.
- stveshdy

I'll be brutally honest here. I don't think Manning is capable of ever being more than a #7 NHL defenseman no matter how much trust or patience you place in him, and I don't think Gustafsson is more than a #5/#6 (and more likely the latter) at his best.

Both Manning and Gustafsson are hard workers, dedicated to improvement, and try to be take-charge players at the AHL level. But they just lack things in their games that can't be taught and can't really be gained through experience -- they can just learn to minimize their weaknesses.

I despise Boucher. If Yzerman, who has made some solid moves imo, also feels the guy isn't good enough I dont want him here. Tampa is underachieving imo and if I am a lightning fan I point the finger at Boucher.

If certain teams fail this season I could see the following guys being available. Noel in Winnipeg, Alain in Vancouver and Ruff in Buffalo. I wouldn't want any of them. With Murray I just get a vibe that he is the kind of coach who can bring a team close, but cannot get that over that hump. It's a young core however and at the end of the day I see Murray getting the job if Lava is on the out.
- flyer_nutter

I'd tend towards Murray just to instill more defensive responsibility in this club. If they're not scoring, you can always just fire him and win a Stanley Cup

Thats why its important to build your farm system. When you trade away picks year after year its hard to do that.
- stveshdy

No argument here, sir. Especially right now, perhaps even next season, I'm very against trading for a rental.

Why was Lilja signed to a two year deal to begin with? Why was Shelley signed to a 3 year deal? Matt Walker... Please.... Leighton brought back for a third time is nonsense. Miscalculating the market this off-season, Selling low on JVR... it goes on and on. Holmgren has made a bunch of poor moves as the GM.
- PLindbergh31

I don't expect him to be perfect. Every GM makes mistakes. He had made some nice moves also. Most teams that lose their top two defenseman are going to struggle a bit. I do agree he did not assemble a championship caliber team this offseason.

Did you see the games in TB and Toronto?
- PLindbergh31

The TB game was horrific. Even when the Flyers led early, they weren't playing wel.

If you look at the Toronto game with fresh eyes, it was a night where the Flyers played a good first period, gave up bang-bang goals early in the second period and deflated. Even when they trailed by three goals, if they had stepped up on that five-minute power play to get at least one back, I think you might have seen an entirely different third period. But that game was lost in those horrific middle 20 minutes.

I'll be brutally honest here. I don't think Manning is capable of ever being more than a #7 NHL defenseman no matter how much trust or patience you place in him, and I don't think Gustafsson is more than a #5/#6 (and more likely the latter) at his best.

Both Manning and Gustafsson are hard workers, dedicated to improvement, and try to be take-charge players at the AHL level. But they just lack things in their games that can't be taught and can't really be gained through experience -- they can just learn to minimize their weaknesses.
- bmeltzer

Hi Bill.

I know you probably cannot go into details.

However what do you see the team doing for the rest of this season, and next off-season?

What are some players you would target either via FA or trade. Stick simply with the draft?

I know it is fantasy hockey, but I will also be brutally honest and say that the situation of the current team is kind of depressing.

I'll be brutally honest here. I don't think Manning is capable of ever being more than a #7 NHL defenseman no matter how much trust or patience you place in him, and I don't think Gustafsson is more than a #5/#6 (and more likely the latter) at his best.

Both Manning and Gustafsson are hard workers, dedicated to improvement, and try to be take-charge players at the AHL level. But they just lack things in their games that can't be taught and can't really be gained through experience -- they can just learn to minimize their weaknesses.
- bmeltzer

So you don't think either can step in right now and give you what Foster, Lilja or Gervais does?

The TB game was horrific. Even when the Flyers led early, they weren't playing wel.

If you look at the Toronto game with fresh eyes, it was a night where the Flyers played a good first period, gave up bang-bang goals early in the second period and deflated. Even when they trailed by three goals, if they had stepped up on that five-minute power play to get at least one back, I think you might have seen an entirely different third period. But that game was lost in those horrific middle 20 minutes.
- bmeltzer

Every team has a few clunkers over the course of a season. I'm not ripping them for not showing up in a couple of games. The effort is usually there. I think it's a case of this team just not being good enough. Throw in some key injuries and there isn't a way to overcome them.

I know you all love Homer here, but when is he going to be held accountable? I dont want to hear who he tried to get in the off season because this is not a good hockey team right now, what can the coach do with this team?
- vejim

I dont love homer, by his own standards he would have been traded by now. i'd still go back and keep Richards. Say what you will but he was a better leader than anyone we have now. I thought I was a huge Lavvy supporter but im not on his side at all this year, and not because we have a losing record.. He's too quick to reward the wrong players with important icetime and still thinking maybe the only reason we all drank his kool-aid system was because we had Pronger.

I'd tend towards Murray just to instill more defensive responsibility in this club. If they're not scoring, you can always just fire him and win a Stanley Cup
- BulliesPhan87

I do think with a more NHL caliber group that has Briere and Giroux performing Lava is the right coach.

I do expect him to take the fall before a guy like Holmgren though. I look at it this way. If you have the following coaches available next off-season... Noel, Ruff, Vigneault (sp?), Torts, Boucher and Lava.... Who would most teams target first?

Maybe its because I am a fan, but I think Laviolette is the guy most teams call first.

I don't expect him to be perfect. Every GM makes mistakes. He had made some nice moves also. Most teams that lose their top two defenseman are going to struggle a bit. I do agree he did not assemble a championship caliber team this offseason.
- stveshdy

the flyers organization has to change its focus from drafting the best available player to drafting what the team needs. Homer had so many chances to draft good Dmen and goalies.

So you don't think either can step in right now and give you what Foster, Lilja or Gervais does?
- stveshdy

Foster does one thing extremely well. Shooting the puck. The rest of his game is average to poor. The rest of the group Gervais, Lilja, Manning, and Gustafsson do not have one above average skill they bring to the table.

I dont love homer, i'd still go back and keep Richards. Say what you will but he was a better leader than anyone we have now. I thought I was a huge Lavvy supporter but im not on his side at all this year, and not because we have a losing record.. He's too quick to reward the wrong players with important icetime and still thinking maybe the only reason we all drank his kool-aid system was because we had Pronger.
- Trainfellow

As bad as it seems the Flyers are still 6-8-1. This team has talent but not good enough to be a true contender.

Every team has a few clunkers over the course of a season. I'm not ripping them for not showing up in a couple of games. The effort is usually there. I think it's a case of this team just not being good enough. Throw in some key injuries and there isn't a way to overcome them.
- PLindbergh31

The injuries ARE a big factor.

In their last 7 games, this horrid assemblage of talent wearing Flyers uniforms is 4-2-1. Even with injuries and poor and inconsistent play.