Because there's very little help available in free agency and trade costs are at a premium.

And Timonen's fr from injury prone. 13 missed games in 6 years averages out to just over two missed games a year.
- Jsaquella

Correct. Missed only 6 games last year. The rest he played with various injuries that would probable sideline the majority of younger players.

Timmo steps on the ice, plays like a warrior every game, gives his all. And does it put together with spit and tape. I respect him as much as any player who ever put on a Flyers jersey. And when he does retire, he'll be my top Flyer defenseman of all time not named Howe or Desjardins.

But the injuries are piling up and he is noticeably slowing down. Lord knows whether he'll get through this shortened year let alone a full year next season.

And I wholeheartedly agree to try to replace somebody like that would be extremely difficult and expensive. But why try? Why not spread the money around and fill other needs? Get better, younger, quicker 5 and 6 d-men. Bring in a solid #3 or 4 instead of a #1? Round out the backline instead or going for the home run?

Just tossin' an idea around.

What are the Organizational issues specifically?
- MJL

The GM and owner wanting a dialed back attack, and lava saying nothing about it.

You never responded to me on the last thread. If every teams recipe to winning is by aggressive forechecking and turning the puck over. Why did Tampa own us last year by letting us walk out of our zone?

Well Meszaros has been gone for 3 weeks now, and now Timonen is injured. So I guess being unlucky again has thrown a monkey wrench in the Flyers plans.
- PLindbergh31

For now. If they can stem the bleeding (a win tonight would help) until at least Hartnell and Meszaros get back, they might be able to get somewhat back on track.

The GM and owner wanting a dialed back attack, and lava saying nothing about it.

You never responded to me on the last thread. If every teams recipe to winning is by aggressive forechecking and turning the puck over. Why did Tampa own us last year by letting us walk out of our zone?
- Just5

I absolutely did respond. Silly to bring up an extreme example. Look instead at how the entire League plays as a whole.

The GM and Owner didn't want a dialed back attack. They wanted the team to play better defensively. Do you think NJ plays a dialed back attack?

That is one area where I'd like to see the Flyers adjust. I think they need to add some Center breakouts. Have the Center come back deep for a short high percentage pass, and then have the Wingers break off the boards. Teams pressure and collapse along the wall as they know that's where the puck is going. And the Flyers are constantly in 50/50 puck battles and having to get pucks through people. Not many free breakouts for the Flyers. Teams are obviously game planning that against the Flyers.
- MJL

Some adjustments have to be made getting out of their own zone. The young forwards have being getting their scoring chances the last 6 games or so. My concern is the defensive end getting the puck out more consistently.

It has been a maddening year. First handful of games, the defense (PK was bad) was overall good, but couldn't score. Now special teams are solid and scoring is better, but defensive breakdowns are killing them.

What happened in the first period? Flyers were all over them. It's a team game. As far as I'm concerned, the Goaltender makes a few saves that in my opinion, he should've made. And the topic of conversation today is much different. Instead, it's panic and talk of the Coach being fired. And losing sight of the big picture.
- MJL

How bout the team pick the goaltender up every once and awhile this year? On a night when it was clear early on bryz might not have his best stuff...they couldn't do it. They are consistent in failing to piece together complete games which is what bad teams do

Of course not. But he had to have calculated that if the OS didn't work, and Carle left he was going to be in a heap of trouble. He swung for the fences and came up empty. There seemed to be no contingency plan, all the eggs were essentially in the Weber basket, while that situation played out the Flyers were hamstrung from making other moves.

Laviolette wasn't given a great hand to play to start the season, and with the injuries to Hartnell and Meszaros it turned into 7/2 off suit.
- PLindbergh31

Carle was lost before the offer sheet. The Weber sheet was the last ditch effort to solve the loss of Pronger.

The grand mistake seems to be re-signing Grossmann before Carle

I absolutely did respond. Silly to bring up an extreme example. Look instead at how the entire League plays as a whole.

The GM and Owner didn't want a dialed back attack. They wanted the team to play better defensively. Do you think NJ plays a dialed back attack?
- MJL

Maybe just as silly to label an entire league having one winning philosophy

Please don't make a panic move Homer!! The Flyer's struggles are a combo of growing pains for the young forwards and injuries and lack of depth on the D.

They will struggle this year, and may very well miss the playoffs. It's not the end of the world!! They have their 1st round pick this year, it will most likely be somewhere between 10-16 and they should be able to get a very good player with that pick. While most seem to want them to grab a defenseman, I would rather see them take the best available forward. Before you all freak out on me, lets look at some facts. First their track record at picking forwards in the 1st round over the last dozen years or so is excellent: Gagne, Williams, Carter,Richards, Giroux, JVR are all pretty damn good players and Couturier and Laughton look they will be pretty good too.

However the organization has never drafted well on D and any scout will tell you it is much harder to judge the upside of an 18 year old Dman than an 18 year old forward.

Coburn, Timonen, Schenn and Grossmann is not a bad start to your top 6. Trade Mez along with perhaps next year's first and a prospect for a better more durable defenseman and buyout Briere so you can afford to sign a decent free agent defenseman and you will have a very solid top 6.

Add that to a one year older group of very good forwards with a healthy Hartnell and a relaxed and solid Bryz and there is no reason the Flyers can't contend next year!

Carle was lost before the offer sheet. The Weber sheet was the last ditch effort to solve the loss of Pronger.

The grand mistake seems to be re-signing Grossmann before Carle
- Jsaquella

I like Grossmann, but this really tied their hands for the offseason.

How bout the team pick the goaltender up every once and awhile this year? On a night when it was clear early on bryz might not have his best stuff...they couldn't do it. They are consistent in failing to piece together complete games which is what bad teams do
- Just5

Not what a bad team does. This team is not a bad team. They are a young developing team that is missing some pieces and has some injuries to key players. Everyone seems to be losing sight of that. You need your Goalie to make the saves he supposed to make. That is the nature and the pressure of the position.

Carle was lost before the offer sheet. The Weber sheet was the last ditch effort to solve the loss of Pronger.

The grand mistake seems to be re-signing Grossmann before Carle
- Jsaquella

very true, much easier to replace a stay at home defenseman with bad knees than a durable puck mover like Carle!

Correct. Missed only 6 games last year. The rest he played with various injuries that would probable sideline the majority of younger players.

Timmo steps on the ice, plays like a warrior every game, gives his all. And does it put together with spit and tape. I respect him as much as any player who ever put on a Flyers jersey. And when he does retire, he'll be my top Flyer defenseman of all time not named Howe or Desjardins.

But the injuries are piling up and he is noticeably slowing down. Lord knows whether he'll get through this shortened year let alone a full year next season.

And I wholeheartedly agree to try to replace somebody like that would be extremely difficult and expensive. But why try? Why not spread the money around and fill other needs? Get better, younger, quicker 5 and 6 d-men. Bring in a solid #3 or 4 instead of a #1? Round out the backline instead or going for the home run?

Just tossin' an idea around.
- 77rams

I don't see Timonen as hitting a home run. And even solid 3/4 defensemen are expensive now. Look at Dennis Wideman. As a 4th guy he's fine. Now he's making $5.25mm
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The GM and owner wanting a dialed back attack, and lava saying nothing about it.

You never responded to me on the last thread. If every teams recipe to winning is by aggressive forechecking and turning the puck over. Why did Tampa own us last year by letting us walk out of our zone?
- Just5

The GM wanted Ryan Suter or Shea Weber.

Maybe just as silly to label an entire league having one winning philosophy
- Just5

It's a fact. This League and the style of play of this League is aggressive forechecking. That is overwhelmingly the style of play.

Carle was lost before the offer sheet. The Weber sheet was the last ditch effort to solve the loss of Pronger.

The grand mistake seems to be re-signing Grossmann before Carle
- Jsaquella

We don't know that they didn't have talks with Carles camp about what he was lolling for. Trust me. We don't want Carle on that deal. Tampa benched him for nearly a period for lollygagging in his own zone which led directly to a caps goal

Please don't make a panic move Homer!! The Flyer's struggles are a combo of growing pains for the young forwards and injuries and lack of depth on the D.

They will struggle this year, and may very well miss the playoffs. It's not the end of the world!! They have their 1st round pick this year, it will most likely be somewhere between 10-16 and they should be able to get a very good player with that pick. While most seem to want them to grab a defenseman, I would rather see them take the best available forward. Before you all freak out on me, lets look at some facts. First their track record at picking forwards in the 1st round over the last dozen years or so is excellent: Gagne, Williams, Carter,Richards, Giroux, JVR are all pretty damn good players and Couturier and Laughton look they will be pretty good too.

However the organization has never drafted well on D and any scout will tell you it is much harder to judge the upside of an 18 year old Dman than an 18 year old forward.

Coburn, Timonen, Schenn and Grossmann is not a bad start to your top 6. Trade Mez along with perhaps next year's first and a prospect for a better more durable defenseman and buyout Briere so you can afford to sign a decent free agent defenseman and you will have a very solid top 6.

Add that to a one year older group of very good forwards with a healthy Hartnell and a relaxed and solid Bryz and there is no reason the Flyers can't contend next year!
- BiggE

I'm with you 100%. Big picture.

Flyers will take this one budaj is brutal
- camby

they better

We don't know that they didn't have talks with Carles camp about what he was lolling for. Trust me. We don't want Carle on that deal. Tampa benched him for nearly a period for lollygagging in his own zone which led directly to a caps goal
- Just5

Now you're just plain making stuff up. What period was Carle benched for? And which play did he lollygag on?

I'm with you 100%. Big picture.
- MJL

There is one aspect that is being left out.

Injury questions aside, I have always had faith in Meszaros being a top pairing guy.

There were many times even with Pronger in the line-up he was the best d-man. A huge part of this depends on whether he can stay healthy, and if the organization takes another shot on him next season.

How bout the team pick the goaltender up every once and awhile this year? On a night when it was clear early on bryz might not have his best stuff...they couldn't do it. They are consistent in failing to piece together complete games which is what bad teams do
- Just5

Good teams are inconsistently bad then?

what quality dmen are available int he offseason?

Now you're just plain making stuff up. What period was Carle benched for? And which play did he lollygag on?
- MJL

Lookup caps second goal and Carles ice time in that period after the goal.

There is one aspect that is being left out.

Injury questions aside, I have always had faith in Meszaros being a top pairing guy.

There were many times even with Pronger in the line-up he was the best d-man. A huge part of this depends on whether he can stay healthy, and if the organization takes another shot on him next season.
- flyer_nutter

They were counting on Meszaros for a lot this year. Unfortunately, he suffers the off season Achillies injury. And then gets hurt again. Look at the numbers he has. Even without being put in a top spot on the PP, and in offensive situations, he produced good offensive support from the back end. He's shown the ability to move up on the play and provide offense. He's been a 20+ minute a night defenseman, who won the Barry Ashbee Award as the team's top defenseman. That is a big piece out of the lineup. He has the ability. Just needs to get and stay healthy.

I like Grossmann, but this really tied their hands for the offseason.
- BulliesPhan87

maybe it's an overreaction, but if the season ends up in the toilet (maybe even if it doesn't) i think they've gotta make a move with either him or coburn

they made a big move for luke schenn, so having two more guys that fit the "solid 2nd pairing guy with 0 offensive talent" is just too many. imo

wonder how much we could even get for grossmann (both he and coburn have limited ntc's)