Trying to catch lightning in a bottle.
- stveshdy

I'd suggest one of a metallic alloy also holding onto a chain link fence at the same time couldn't hurt or maybe it might...

My question is even "if" they play their best hockey are they a serious cup contender?
- stveshdy

Not this season. I felt heading in that they were a 5-8 seed. As guys like Couturier and Schenn get more mature they should evolve into a serious contender. But they should still be in the mix, talent wise.

What "youth" players are we looking to move?
- stveshdy

I think its still a little early to start looking to move youth. If we are indeed out of it at the deadline I sooner look to move Knuble, Fedetanko etc. Badically youve just bought yourself some mid round picks by giving those guys 1 year deals. Certainly wouldnt be the worst moves ever.

That said, I would take whatever I can get for Rinaldo right now.We have Sestito already who is plenty capable of the same things and has more leeway with the refs. Not many good, concrete reasons why Rinaldo shouldnt be moved for a 2nd or 3rd given the state of our farm system.

I'd suggest one of a metallic alloy also holding onto a chain link fence at the same time couldn't hurt or maybe it might...
- JoeRussomanno

If you had a Top 5 list as of today who would be on it (Playing the best for Flyers):

It hasn't. Giroux is 83rd in the NHL in scoring. Briere hasn't been doing much, regardless of if he's played center or wing. They've counted on Coburn and he's been awful. Even Timonen has had bad games this season.
- Jsaquella

It's been a group effort, not the kind they wanted.

It hasn't. Giroux is 83rd in the NHL in scoring. Briere hasn't been doing much, regardless of if he's played center or wing. They've counted on Coburn and he's been awful. Even Timonen has had bad games this season.
- Jsaquella

Bryzgalov's play gives me faith too. With Boucher being able to take up some some games maybe Bryz will be able to keep it going. Never thought I'd see a flyer team stink with good goaltending wtf...

Not this season. I felt heading in that they were a 5-8 seed. As guys like Couturier and Schenn get more mature they should evolve into a serious contender. But they should still be in the mix, talent wise.
- Jsaquella

I totally agree. They lost more piece this offseason then they got back.

Cup contender? Probably not, playoff team, for sure.
- JoeRussomanno

The only way I would make any kind of trade is if the team was a contender, and the move would possibly put them over the top as a favorite. As it stands, let the kids learn from this horrendous start, see if the team can pull it together for a playoff run, and start next season fresh with that in their minds.

If you had a Top 5 list as of today who would be on it (Playing the best for Flyers):
- stveshdy

Giroux, Coburn, Briere, talbot, Timmonen

The only way I would make any kind of trade is if the team was a contender, and the move would possibly put them over the top as a favorite. As it stands, let the kids learn from this horrendous start, see if the team can pull it together for a playoff run, and start next season fresh with that in their minds.
- tangent_man

Like I said earlier management needs to take a long term approach here. Heck even bryzgalov is still young enough for that to happen, in 3 years.

Just a few thoughts on what I have seen so far.
1. As I said previously to you Bill I know Coburn is an important cog but with his inconsistencies and hefty salary not sure if he is ever going to be an asset to us. When Meszaros gets back and the defense gets sured up a bit I guess we will finally see.
2. As for trading Couturier, watching last nights game has me thinking that we have too many centermen. If Brierre cannot play wing then we are left with using Coots on a 4th line. The 4th line is not going to have the talent of a 2nd or even 3rd line and cannot be put out there for 15 minutes a game, in which case you are taking a premium center and wasting his time. Either Brierre must be bought out this offseason or Coots needs to be traded for the pieces we need.
3. Laviolette's system does not work with this group. I know that he has already tinkered with it earlier in the season to adapt to the fact that our D-men have their feet in the mud, but as a result the scoring hasn't been there nor is likely to come. At this point and time Mr. Snider and his guru's need to start asking if it is going to be easier to go out and get the pieces they need to make Lavy's system work or is it time to change the system by replacing the coach.
Lastly, part 4. Giroux, while it can be said that he has been pressing it is mostly the fact that teams are keeping and eye on him. Until the rest of the line he's on prove they are an actual threat things are not going to get better. When Hartnell comes back later this week I expect that Giroux will suddenly come alive. No disrespect to Simmonds but Hartnell is much faster at getting to the puck in the slot, this should open up the outside for more attempts at quality shots by Giroux.
- ICUBB

Nice post! Well thought out!

I don't see the need for a fire sale, or massive trades that would blow the team up. People seem to forget or ignore that the Flyers are a young team, and with a young team you're going to have ups and downs.

The problem is, for the Flyers, it's not just the kids that are having the ups and downs. Guys like Braydon Coburn are struggling and the Flyers need him to be a rock. Guys like Briere and Timonen are supposed to be strong leaders, but it hasn't shown up on the ice.

Granted, the Flyers are missing a lot of pieces due to injury. So are other teams. You have to find a way to overcome those injuries. That's where the leadership issue comes to play.

Does it mean they need a new coach? Or a big trade? Not sure. I do want them to keep the path with the younger guys on hand. There's talent there, despite the struggles.
- Jsaquella

I don't think anyone is suggesting this downtick should lead to an emptying of young players. However if this bs continues I believe there are 2 clear things they can do this offseason/deadline

1. Trade or buyout Briere
2. Trade one of L schenn, grossman, coburn. Pick 2 to be your in your top 4 as shutdown guys. You cannot pay this much to a group of defenseman who give you very little on the offensive end. They all have similar tools

Giroux, Coburn, Briere, talbot, Timmonen
- JoeRussomanno

I think you misunderstood the question.

Read, Bryz, McGinn, uhh....

I don't think anyone is suggesting this downtick should lead to an emptying of young players. However if this bs continues I believe there are 2 clear things they can do this offseason/deadline

1. Trade or buyout Briere
2. Trade one of L schenn, grossman, coburn. Pick 2 to be your in your top 4 as shutdown guys. You cannot pay this much to a group of defenseman who give you very little on the offensive end. They all have similar tools
- Just5

Regarding point 2 someone had posted that before. I'm beating that drum

Short of trading for Weber and then a sign and trade for Perry I dont know that you can fix the flyers in season.

The best bet is to move as many of the older players as you can and let the core of this team develop.

I believe they are fine in net with Bryz.
I believe the core of this team is Giroux, Hartnell, Simmonds, Read, Jake, Schenns , Grossman , Cooturier and Rinaldo (he brings something this team lacks).
Everyone but Giroux is on the table for the right deal

I think you misunderstood the question.

Read, Bryz, McGinn, uhh....
- tangent_man

I thought he meant which 5 players aren't playing their best that need to.

Holmgren went for the big offseason swung and missed. Strikeout!
He needs to use some patience and not panic. This team clearly needs some depth and an upgrade in talent.

I thought he meant which 5 players aren't playing their best that need to.
- JoeRussomanno

Yep, that's what I figured. In that case, you would have been spot on.

Holmgren went for the big offseason swung and missed. Strikeout!
He needs to use some patience and not panic. This team clearly needs some depth and an upgrade in talent.
- bird_dog

Ya know its kind of boring when we all agree ...

I think its still a little early to start looking to move youth. If we are indeed out of it at the deadline I sooner look to move Knuble, Fedetanko etc. Badically youve just bought yourself some mid round picks by giving those guys 1 year deals. Certainly wouldnt be the worst moves ever.

That said, I would take whatever I can get for Rinaldo right now.We have Sestito already who is plenty capable of the same things and has more leeway with the refs. Not many good, concrete reasons why Rinaldo shouldnt be moved for a 2nd or 3rd given the state of our farm system.
- hereticpride

Rinaldo has exceptional speed, and is a good agitator. As he matures, and keeps the reckless play to a minimum, the reputation can be lost. Look at Matt Cooke. His reputation was awful and he worked at it and cut his PIM by more than half. Look at what he did against Winnipeg, drawing two penalties and being a real pain in the ass for the Jets to deal with.

Sestito is a different kind of player. He's not an agitator, he's a heavyweight. He's a good skater for his size, but he's not going to get under other team's skin like Rinaldo does.

That said, If I can get a 2nd rounder + for either, I'd consider it.

I don't think anyone is suggesting this downtick should lead to an emptying of young players. However if this bs continues I believe there are 2 clear things they can do this offseason/deadline

1. Trade or buyout Briere
2. Trade one of L schenn, grossman, coburn. Pick 2 to be your in your top 4 as shutdown guys. You cannot pay this much to a group of defenseman who give you very little on the offensive end. They all have similar tools
- Just5

Regarding #2, I read a couple years ago Ken Holland's philosophy in building a championship D corps and it was exaclty as you say it. You don't overspend on defensive defenseman. If you break the bank, do it for Offensive Dmen like weber.

Yep, that's what I figured. In that case, you would have been spot on.
- tangent_man

If those guys do, the mood of this board changes drastically IMO.

I don't think anyone is suggesting this downtick should lead to an emptying of young players. However if this bs continues I believe there are 2 clear things they can do this offseason/deadline

1. Trade or buyout Briere
2. Trade one of L schenn, grossman, coburn. Pick 2 to be your in your top 4 as shutdown guys. You cannot pay this much to a group of defenseman who give you very little on the offensive end. They all have similar tools
- Just5

Point 2 is huge. That's a massive problem with this team. I take L Schenn out of the trade mix tho because he's the sole D guy we have with a good cap hit. Funny, because he's the only one we did n't write the deal for.

Regarding #2, I read a couple years ago Ken Holland's philosophy in building a championship D corps and it was exaclty as you say it. You don't overspend on defensive defenseman. If you break the bank, do it for Offensive Dmen like weber.
- Hextall271

I think weber is more of a two way guy tho.

Regarding #2, I read a couple years ago Ken Holland's philosophy in building a championship D corps and it was exaclty as you say it. You don't overspend on defensive defenseman. If you break the bank, do it for Offensive Dmen like weber.
- Hextall271

I don't see 3.5M to 4.5M for defensive defenseman as overspending in today's market. And it's real easy to have that philosophy when you have Nik Lidstrom.