Rinaldo has exceptional speed, and is a good agitator. As he matures, and keeps the reckless play to a minimum, the reputation can be lost. Look at Matt Cooke. His reputation was awful and he worked at it and cut his PIM by more than half. Look at what he did against Winnipeg, drawing two penalties and being a real pain in the ass for the Jets to deal with.

Sestito is a different kind of player. He's not an agitator, he's a heavyweight. He's a good skater for his size, but he's not going to get under other team's skin like Rinaldo does.

That said, If I can get a 2nd rounder + for either, I'd consider it.
- Jsaquella

If guys like Poni Tangradi and loktionov are going for 7ths with the exception of Poni who went for a 7th this year and 4th next i can't imagine you would get anywhere near a 2 round pick for either Rinaldo or Sestito unless im misunderstanding what your saying

Regarding #2, I read a couple years ago Ken Holland's philosophy in building a championship D corps and it was exaclty as you say it. You don't overspend on defensive defenseman. If you break the bank, do it for Offensive Dmen like weber.
- Hextall271

That type of player (perfect example is Sean odonnell) is usually available in free agency. The group of the 3 of them are not dynamic enough to makeup a top 4.

Rinaldo has exceptional speed, and is a good agitator. As he matures, and keeps the reckless play to a minimum, the reputation can be lost. Look at Matt Cooke. His reputation was awful and he worked at it and cut his PIM by more than half. Look at what he did against Winnipeg, drawing two penalties and being a real pain in the ass for the Jets to deal with.

Sestito is a different kind of player. He's not an agitator, he's a heavyweight. He's a good skater for his size, but he's not going to get under other team's skin like Rinaldo does.

That said, If I can get a 2nd rounder + for either, I'd consider it.
- Jsaquella

Cooke has been a career 3rd liner. I'm not sure what he was when he came in. But Rinaldos all around game is far inferior to cookes

I really thought the flyers would be a handful last night maybe it was fatique but when there was no big third period push I was surprised.

Call me crazy but I still believe Weber becomes available somehow.
- JoeRussomanno

keep sucking, draft mackinnon, trade g for weber

If guys like Poni Tangradi and loktionov are going for 7ths with the exception of Poni who went for a 7th this year and 4th next i can't imagine you would get anywhere near a 2 round pick for either Rinaldo or Sestito unless im misunderstanding what your saying
- blizzzard

I'm not expecting to get a 2nd for Rinaldo or Sestito. I'm saying that if somebody offered that, I'd be willing to move them.

I think that Rinaldo has more value than Tangradi. Guy skates like he's in mud. I'm surprised that Loktionov was so cheap, except that Lombardi said they wanted to move him ASAP after his demand for a trade.

Holmgren went for the big offseason swung and missed. Strikeout!
He needs to use some patience and not panic. This team clearly needs some depth and an upgrade in talent.
- bird_dog

not sure other gms want to deal with because of his antics last off season, and ufas want to come becuase of what he did to cartsey and richy

Cooke has been a career 3rd liner. I'm not sure what he was when he came in. But Rinaldos all around game is far inferior to cookes
- Just5

That's not the comparison I made. Cooke has been a solid player, in addition to being an agitator/dirty player.

I simply noted that Cooke managed to reduce the amount of time he spent in the penalty box and that Rinaldo could do the same.

There's nothing wrong with this team that a few more goals wouldn't fix. Getting Giroux and Briere going, and having Hartnell back will be a big shot in the arm.

A decision to do nothing can be a positive decision.

I really like the core of this Flyers team. I think Holmgren has done a great job in setting this team up for years to come.

This is not rocket science. The Flyers do not have a #1 Dman. It hurts them badly on both ends of the ice. Holmgren understands this. He could rush out and over pay for a short term fix. Or, he can wait and get the talent that will fit the 10 year footprint he is building on this very young team.

keep sucking, draft mackinnon, trade g for weber
- mydoglicks

Let me position myself in the ol' bomb shelter real quick; I'd have made that trade last summer *slams concrete manhole cover shut.

I'm not expecting to get a 2nd for Rinaldo or Sestito. I'm saying that if somebody offered that, I'd be willing to move them.

I think that Rinaldo has more value than Tangradi. Guy skates like he's in mud. I'm surprised that Loktionov was so cheap, except that Lombardi said they wanted to move him ASAP after his demand for a trade.
- Jsaquella

Ah see I thought I didn't completely get what you where saying I would to and I'm not sure why players are going for so little but it is kind of a good thing unless your trying to get rid of them

That type of player (perfect example is Sean odonnell) is usually available in free agency. The group of the 3 of them are not dynamic enough to makeup a top 4.
- Just5

When we had Pronger/Carle, Coburn/Timonen, Mesz/O'D, I thought we had a championship calibre D.. The Hockey news did an article on it. We've lost the first pairing and replaced it with two defensive guys...Not an ideal situation... Meszcoming back will help.

not sure other gms want to deal with because of his antics last off season, and ufas want to come becuase of what he did to cartsey and richy
- mydoglicks

what antics?

and I highly doubt UFA's won't come here because Carter and Richards were traded.

Ah see I thought I didn't completely get what you where saying I would to and I'm not sure why players are going for so little but it is kind of a good thing unless your trying to get rid of them
- blizzzard

It's been a strange season for trades. I think teams are hesitant and want to fully grasp the new CBA before going crazy.

what antics?

and I highly doubt UFA's won't come here because Carter and Richards were traded.
- FlyerGuy

Hell, they managed to sign Weber to a 14 year offer sheet after those trades, and not only did Nick Grossmann willingly re-sign, but Carle and Jagr both wanted to return.

There's nothing wrong with this team that a few more goals wouldn't fix. Getting Giroux and Briere going, and having Hartnell back will be a big shot in the arm.
- FlyerGuy

Certainly scoring more goals would go a long way. But they also have to get better defensively. Even in terms of basic fundamental defense. 2 of the goals last night, the coverage was just horrendous. Not to mention the constant turnovers either in their own zone or at the opposition blueline.

It's been a strange season for trades. I think teams are hesitant and want to fully grasp the new CBA before going crazy.
- Jsaquella

Exactly Lou never does anything crazy outside of the Kovalchuk signing so its kinda of boring but at the same time he always seems to know what he is doing but at times I feel like it would be nice if we were more like the flyers and Rangers always making big trades and signings

That's not the comparison I made. Cooke has been a solid player, in addition to being an agitator/dirty player.

I simply noted that Cooke managed to reduce the amount of time he spent in the penalty box and that Rinaldo could do the same.
- Jsaquella

Ok I misunderstood. Problem is Cooke doesn't have to walk that line to be effective

Exactly Lou never does anything crazy outside of the Kovalchuk signing so its kinda of boring but at the same time he always seems to know what he is doing but at times I feel like it would be nice if we were more like the flyers and Rangers always making big trades and signings
- blizzzard

The big moves are exciting, but there's times I'd like to see less of it.

The biggest organizational issue with the Flyers is that they always seem to be chasing somebody else's approach. For years they tried to outmuscle the Devils, then post lockout, they tried to out speed the Sabres. then out tough the Bruins, now it seems they're trying to be the Devils again, based on what owner Ed Snider said before this season began.

Certainly scoring more goals would go a long way. But they also have to get better defensively. Even in terms of basic fundamental defense. 2 of the goals last night, the coverage was just horrendous. Not to mention the constant turnovers either in their own zone or at the opposition blueline.
- MJL

true ... just saying that a few more goals would cover up a few flaws.

hell, a few more goals and we'd easily be looking at a 9-6-1 instead of 6-9-1.

Ok I misunderstood. Problem is Cooke doesn't have to walk that line to be effective
- Just5

No, he doesn't. I just used Cooke's name because he's a guy that cleaned up his rep.

Rinaldo is more a Kaleta type, although I don't think he's as dirty as Kaleta....not saying that Rinaldo's a saint, by any means, either.

A decision to do nothing can be a positive decision.

I really like the core of this Flyers team. I think Holmgren has done a great job in setting this team up for years to come.

This is not rocket science. The Flyers do not have a #1 Dman. It hurts them badly on both ends of the ice. Holmgren understands this. He could rush out and over pay for a short term fix. Or, he can wait and get the talent that will fit the 10 year footprint he is building on this very young team.
- spatso

You make a good point. The real fans in here would like to see them preach patience. However that is not the MO of the flyers brass. Whether it be purely internal philosophy or perceived pressure from the fan base

When we had Pronger/Carle, Coburn/Timonen, Mesz/O'D, I thought we had a championship calibre D.. The Hockey news did an article on it. We've lost the first pairing and replaced it with two defensive guys...Not an ideal situation... Meszcoming back will help.
- Hextall271

And a point I want to make, is how fast things can change in this League. That wasn't that long ago. Don't like the defense now. Just wait a little bit. It's bound to change. Give Holmgren a chance. He's proven he can do it.

I hate to say it but I think lavvy has to go. His teams here are consistently not ready to start game no matter the personnel.