Jury is still out on the Richards, and Carter trades. As well as the JVR trade. Those are the moves that will define Holmgren's tenure.

But a bunch of the other stuff he has done makes little sense. Shelley, Lilja, Walker, the Kubina trade, the Leighton fascination, the swinging and missing this offseason, it goes on and on.

He's done some nice things as well, it hasn't all been bad. There seems to be a personnel disconnect between the GM and the coach. I would choose to keep the coach.
- PLindbergh31

holmgren also traded that all star patrick sharp right RIGHT?

To be honest I was one of those who grew tired of John Stevens. I wanted him out because I felt the men on the team would better fit a more aggressive identity.

I am tired of seeing coaches being shipped out because the youth on the team need an energy infusion. If the Devils were slumping this season would they fire the HC? Or would they stay the course, and ask the players to play better.

Its true the team isn't really ideal to play an aggressive system right now. The D cant really push the pace and many of the young kids are going through growing pains.

I question some of Lava's decisions but who the hell would think this would be a solid aggressive team that hunts the puck looking at the D core and lineup in general.
- flyer_nutter

I agree about the D. I would really like to see a move for another D man that can move the puck. We have too many stay at home D men. I really like Kimmo, but with them having to rely on him so much, I am not sure he'll make it back for another season. He is slowing down alot.

I also think we need another veteran winger. There is not a whole lot of people on the lines that put fear into anyone.

You calling for Homers head?
- stveshdy

He has to be held accountable for the product that is on the ice.

How would you grade the job Homer did this past summer?
- stveshdy

C just average

He has to be held accountable for the product that is on the ice.
- PLindbergh31

so i should hold obama accountable for out crappy government and not congress and the house?

You calling for Homers head?
- stveshdy

I do not think its that time.

A lot of the moves he attempted to make simply didnt work out. If he is given a chance to fix it, then so should be Lava.

I do think Holmgren really needs to look at the team he has, and set an identity for the future. If he wants to go more defensive, and grind out hockey, then you will need to make bigger changes because frankly most of the offense isnt set up to play that kind of game.

Or you stick the course, hunt the puck, and bring in guys that fit that mold.

If he decides to go the route of a defensive team first and foremost, then fire Lava. I know which option I would prefer.

I do not think its that time.

A lot of the moves he attempted to make simply didnt work out. If he is given a chance to fix it, then so should be Lava.

I do think Holmgren really needs to look at the team he has, and set an identity for the future. If he wants to go more defensive, and grind out hockey, then you will need to make bigger changes because frankly most of the offense isnt set up to play that kind of game.

Or you stick the course, hunt the puck, and bring in guys that fit that mold.

If he decides to go the route of a defensive team first and foremost, then fire Lava. I know which option I would prefer.
- flyer_nutter

Yep. Holmgren knows the style that Laviolette plays. If the personnel doesn't mesh with the coach's system, how is that the coach's fault? Granted, the coach has to try to adapt and work with what he has. That being said, I don't think it would matter much who the coach of this team was, the results wouldn't be great.

I do not think its that time.

A lot of the moves he attempted to make simply didnt work out. If he is given a chance to fix it, then so should be Lava.

I do think Holmgren really needs to look at the team he has, and set an identity for the future. If he wants to go more defensive, and grind out hockey, then you will need to make bigger changes because frankly most of the offense isnt set up to play that kind of game.

Or you stick the course, hunt the puck, and bring in guys that fit that mold.

If he decides to go the route of a defensive team first and foremost, then fire Lava. I know which option I would prefer.
- flyer_nutter

we should only call for homer's head if he doesn't have a plan to get out of this mess

also think about it like this... if homer knew how to fix the team's problems he wouldn't have made them

I agree about the D. I would really like to see a move for another D man that can move the puck. We have too many stay at home D men. I really like Kimmo, but with them having to rely on him so much, I am not sure he'll make it back for another season. He is slowing down alot.

I also think we need another veteran winger. There is not a whole lot of people on the lines that put fear into anyone.
- watson1195

There are not. Part of that is going through the growing pains of Brayden Schenn, Voracek and Coots. If the organization believes they are worth going through.

I think too much is being made of the current situation. They need some star power on offense, and to change up the mix of the D, hopefully by bringing in a young guy with star potential.

Thats it. Thats the problem. You need the off-season to probably fix that. For now you watch the kids, and see what kind of balls they have in hard times. To see if their growing pains, are worth going through.

Yep. Holmgren knows the style that Laviolette plays. If the personnel doesn't mesh with the coach's system, how is that the coach's fault? Granted, the coach has to try to adapt and work with what he has. That being said, I don't think it would matter much who the coach of this team was.
- PLindbergh31

Mike Babcock is a genius of getting what he needs out of his players and not the golden system he wants to play

I understand what you are saying. While it is the coach's job to adapt to the personnel he's been given, I think Laviolette was given a bad hand to play. Throw in the injuries and it becomes worse.

The only thing that concerns me about the coach is there are too many games where the effort isn't there. I count three games already this season where the team hasn't showed up.
- PLindbergh31

The thing is, Homer didn't construct this current team on purpose. He tried to get Weber, Suter, and Parise. I really doubt this was the way he wanted the team to look. I think Homer knows that, Lavi knows that, and maybe even the players, which would explain some of their play. The thing is, do you fire Homer or Lavi to make a quick change which could backfire later on?

I know the Flyers love to go through coaches quickly, but I would hate to see what happens if Homer is fired and a poopty GM is brought in.

Yep. Holmgren knows the style that Laviolette plays. If the personnel doesn't mesh with the coach's system, how is that the coach's fault? Granted, the coach has to try to adapt and work with what he has. That being said, I don't think it would matter much who the coach of this team was.
- PLindbergh31

Homer's overall body of work has to be taken into account. He had produced a playoff team virtually every single year since taken over. This offseason he struck out multiple times but I still have faith in him.

Really as far as Coaching adjustments. Laviolette has made some very minor adjustments. In my opinion he is not going to change. This is what made him who he is, and has gotten him the success that he has had. This is his identity as Coach, and he is not going to change. It;s sink or swim with a Coach who plays the way he does. That was seen in Carolina, and it's being seen here.

When Laviolette was first hired, I talked about the double edged sword that his system and style of play is. Very difficult to maintain the energy level needed to play that way, night in a night out. Just watch the replays from last night and see how the team plays. They favor the offensive side of the puck in all situations. That is what he has preached and taught them to play that way. It is ingrained in the players head. Play it right and play it hard and it can be awesome. Like we've seen at times. First period of the Devils game. Game 6 against the Pens last year. Canes winning the Cup.
- MJL

My issue is, that a coach needs to be able to adapt to what he has on hand. Laviolette doesn't have a roster that is ideal for his system. I see adjustments, but as often as not they haven't been effective.

The players need to be able to adapt, too. Part of the issue is the younger guys are still learning how to be NHL players and adjusting to their roles. But there's also veteran players that are making dumb plays and rookie type mistakes.

The thing is, Homer didn't construct this current team on purpose. He tried to get Weber, Suter, and Parise. I really doubt this was the way he wanted the team to look. I think Homer knows that, Lavi knows that, and maybe even the players, which would explain some of their play. The thing is, do you fire Homer or Lavi to make a quick change which could backfire later on?

I know the Flyers love to go through coaches quickly, but I would hate to see what happens if Homer is fired and a poopty GM is brought in.
- feelingkettle

if i'm snider i ask homer... what's your plan
if i agree i keep him on if i dont' agree i fire him it's simple

Mike Babcock is a genius of getting what he needs out of his players and not the golden system he wants to play
- 2Real

Totally agree with that. I used to watch him coach in the WHL. His teams were always competitive and got a lot out of them.

To be honest I was one of those who grew tired of John Stevens. I wanted him out because I felt the men on the team would better fit a more aggressive identity.

I am tired of seeing coaches being shipped out because the youth on the team need an energy infusion. If the Devils were slumping this season would they fire the HC? Or would they stay the course, and ask the players to play better.

Its true the team isn't really ideal to play an aggressive system right now. The D cant really push the pace and many of the young kids are going through growing pains.

I question some of Lava's decisions but who the hell would think this would be a solid aggressive team that hunts the puck looking at the D core and lineup in general.
- flyer_nutter

Chicago is perfecting the mold again. They employ many puck moving defensemen to make it work. Leddy, oduya, of course Keith. But it seems they are acquiring thr defensemen to make it work. Oduya was available at the trade deadline, but we opted for grossman.

I'd still want Jim Nill if any GM change is made. But if not I'll stick with riding out the rough patch this season.
- ob18

Jim Nill has repeatedly ignored offers, not sure he'd leave Detroit. But yeah, he'd be my first choice if a change is made.

The thing is, Homer didn't construct this current team on purpose. He tried to get Weber, Suter, and Parise. I really doubt this was the way he wanted the team to look. I think Homer knows that, Lavi knows that, and maybe even the players, which would explain some of their play. The thing is, do you fire Homer or Lavi to make a quick change which could backfire later on?

I know the Flyers love to go through coaches quickly, but I would hate to see what happens if Homer is fired and a poopty GM is brought in.
- feelingkettle

I understand that, although Holmgren tried it's a results business, and he didn't get it done. The bottom line is if the play doesn't improve dramatically, and soon, changes are coming.

Yep. Holmgren knows the style that Laviolette plays. If the personnel doesn't mesh with the coach's system, how is that the coach's fault? Granted, the coach has to try to adapt and work with what he has. That being said, I don't think it would matter much who the coach of this team was.
- PLindbergh31

Thats the thing.

You can have Murray come in. You may see them get some energy for a few games.

That will not fix anything to me. You will still have streaky D core that is sub par in the transition game. You will still have growing pains of the young kids.

You will then also be asking guys like Briere, Giroux, Simmonds, Brayden Schenn, Hartnell, and Read to play a defensive identity. That is a horrific thought to me. There is a thing about getting your young players to learn good defensive play.

If this team gooes into a Terry Murray type of identity I see them being run into the ground. An aging Kimmo will be hit into dust, and the undersized forwards who aren't that great defensively to begin with will be even more exposed.

if i'm snider i ask homer... what's your plan
if i agree i keep him on if i dont' agree i fire him it's simple
- 2Real

Holmgren will do whatever Snider asks.

He will build the team around what he thinks but Sniders input goes a long ways.

I understand that, although Holmgren tried it's a results business, and he didn't get it done. The bottom line is if the play doesn't improve dramatically, and soon, changes are coming.
- PLindbergh31

Changes are coming, but with this organization, whether they are beneficial long term will always be questionable.

Mike Babcock is a genius of getting what he needs out of his players and not the golden system he wants to play
- 2Real

The Devils and Wings have systems in place that work for them. They draft/acquire players who fit and buy into their system, they do not rush their younger players into positions they can't handle.

They are two very patient franchises, or basically the opposite of what we have here.

Totally agree with that. I used to watch him coach in the WHL. His teams were always competitive and got a lot out of them.
- watson1195

Babcock is a very good coach, he hasn't exactly been void of talent. If Babcock was the coach of the Blue Jackets what would happen? Maybe the go from 15th in they Conf, to 13th.

Babcock is a very good coach, he hasn't exactly been void of talent. If Babcock was the coach of the Blue Jackets what would happen? Maybe the go from 15th in they Conf, to 13th.
- PLindbergh31

Columbus is a place where careers die.

Jim Nill has repeatedly ignored offers, not sure he'd leave Detroit. But yeah, he'd be my first choice if a change is made.
- Jsaquella

Yeah I think he's refused mainly for family reason (I could be wrong).

Outside thought how about Paul Fenton the Assistant General Manager in Nashville?