This post 100%. We should trade him now while his value is highest. We could probably get a 1st rounder for him.
- jmatchett

He's not saying that either just that the deal could get heavy on the flyers as years progress but I think with the cap going up and Giroux ages well, the deal's negative impact will be minimal.

surely. because of his particular skillset and value in all three zones, he's more of an outlier than the norm forward who peaks at age 25. he may never score 93 points again, but he'll be a 1C for probably another five years.
- OrangeBlack27

Peaking at 25 is the norm? I strongly disagree.
28-32 is the peak in my opinion...

I heard Lavi was thinking of tinkering a bit with that first line

Speaking of Lavi, maybe he strategically sat McGinn yesterday to get the big guy fired up to have a big game against Pitt? I wonder if he plays tomorrow or if Lavi sticks with the winning lineup from yesterday. I kinda like the idea of another big body in there against the Pens, but who would sit? Anyway just my thoughts and what do I know? Hell sometimes even I can fall into the ole "Him no hit, him no score, him useless" mindset.
- Lexington Flyer

i'd sit any member of yesterday's fourth line and knuble in favor of mcginn.

surely. because of his particular skillset and value in all three zones, he's more of an outlier than the norm forward who peaks at age 25. he may never score 93 points again, but he'll be a 1C for probably another five years.
- OrangeBlack27

I could easily see Giroux scoring 100 points. Most guys peak at 29 or so it seems based on some stats I've studied over the years.

I haven't really seen Pietrangelo play, so I can't say. I know his offense is nice, but I can't speak to his individual skills past his stats.
- jmatchett

He is or is very near being a top 5 d man in the league. Does it all

voracek has been the second best all-around forward on the team for about a calendar year now.
- OrangeBlack27

No way. Reed - Hartnell much?

id trade brieres for oreally
- mydoglicks

Never going to happen.

Most of the time, Briere is overpowered, weak on the puck, too many slashing penalties, defensively suspect, etc... However, you can't discount his innate ability to get the timely goal - and you can expect 2X those timely goals in the playoffs. I say keep him until the luck runs out of the little leprechaun, or his contract expires...

aren't like 95% of players?
- OrangeBlack27

I'd go with 99%

prime is generally ages 23-27, with the most dramatic declines happening at age 29+. there's always anomalies and exceptions that skew people's thoughts on this subject.

so to give a 26-year-old Giroux an 8-year deal, you're only getting value for the first 1-3 years. Then it depreciates rapidly. But this is generally accepted in sports.

Peaking at 25 is the norm? I strongly disagree.
- jak521

It's about 29.

Peaking at 25 is the norm? I strongly disagree.
- jak521

offensively, yes.

http://www.arcticicehocke...-points-per-game-peak-age

No way. Reed - Hartnell much?
- mayorofangrytown

i'll give you hartnell, but not read. i think jake is better.

I'd go with 99%

prime is generally ages 23-27, with the most dramatic declines happening at age 29+. there's always anomalies and exceptions that skew people's thoughts on this subject.

so to give a 26-year-old Giroux an 8-year deal, you're only getting value for the first 1-3 years. Then it depreciates rapidly. But this is generally accepted in sports.
- bradleyc4

You're paying him for what he did too.

It's about 29.
- NickTheKid87

that was my edit...

Id say for the average player.. a guy who is a fringe player, 25 ok... but the top 40% of the league is 27-32 in the prime.

offensively, yes.

http://www.arcticicehocke...-points-per-game-peak-age
- OrangeBlack27

huh, interesting. Gotta think with G's skillset and that he didn't come into the league at 18 (not to mention his elite talent) he'd be considered an exception.

You're paying him for what he did too.
- NickTheKid87

True, another generally accepted practice. Just wish teams were more diligent in not over-paying (in $ or years) for that, but in a free market like free agency, it's difficult to get talent that way.

The more I see Voracek play, the more I start to think he might have been worth the Carter trade all on his own. When you add Coots to the mix, it just seems so lopsided in our favor. Voracek seems to be a much larger and physical version of Leino, setting linemates up from the wing. And I don't think playing with Jagr hurt his development at all either. Thus far he has been the Catalyst on both the Giroux/Read and Schenn/Mcginn scoring lines.
- flyler

There were more than a couple of chances in that Jersey game that Jake created that others couldn't or didn't finish.

As great of a passer as he is, I would still like to see him shoot the puck a bit more.

leclair-lindros-renberg
hawerchuk-brind'amour-falloon
podein-otto-klatt
daniels-lacroix-kordic
- OrangeBlack27

The Dan line.

i'll give you hartnell, but not read. i think jake is better.
- OrangeBlack27

Yeah, all he does is score goals, hustle, get into the gritty areas and kill penalties. What can't you use him for? I like them both but I'd take Reed.

Jake's a lot more talented than Leino as well. He's got a ton of upside and I would trade him straight up for Carter 8 days a week. Even this year, Carter has 6 goals and an assist in 13 games while Voracek has 3 goals and 12 assists in 17 games. Plus Jake's a great tweeter.
- NickTheKid87

More talented, Bigger, more physical, yeah. My comparison to Leino was that Leino was the last impact playmaker on the wing we really had. I think if you put him with any of our centers G, Schenn, Briere, you'd get something really special as most of our centers like to shoot. Plus he uses his size to crash the net when needed. He & Read have been our best consistent forwards all year.

that was my edit...

Id say for the average player.. a guy who is a fringe player, 25 ok... but the top 40% of the league is 27-32 in the prime.
- jak521

Only 2 of the top 100 goal scorers of all time had a career best season beyond age 30.

37 of the top 100 set their career high in goals at (or before) age 23.

Gretzky's last 40+ goal season was at age 29. Only broke the 30 goal plateau twice after that.

Guys like Selanne and Esposito are/were true anomalies.

I'd go with 99%

prime is generally ages 23-27, with the most dramatic declines happening at age 29+. there's always anomalies and exceptions that skew people's thoughts on this subject.

so to give a 26-year-old Giroux an 8-year deal, you're only getting value for the first 1-3 years. Then it depreciates rapidly. But this is generally accepted in sports.
- bradleyc4

On the other hand the cap will go up in those first four years and so will salaries so by the time years 5-8 kick in he will at most be paid commensurate with his (supposed) declining skill set.

Yeah, all he does is score goals, hustle, get into the gritty areas and kill penalties. What can't you use him for? I like them both but I'd take Reed.
- mayorofangrytown

hey, man, i love matt read, too.

that was my edit...

Id say for the average player.. a guy who is a fringe player, 25 ok... but the top 40% of the league is 27-32 in the prime.
- jak521

Yeah elite players stay effective longer. Henrik Sedin's best year came at 29 (112 points in 82 games), Iginla at 29/30 (94 in 70/98 in 82), Datsyuk 29/30 (97 in 82/97 in 81), St. Louis 28/31 (94 in 82/102 in 82), etc.

offensively, yes.

http://www.arcticicehocke...-points-per-game-peak-age
- OrangeBlack27

For the lump group, i could agree.. but the top 30-40% of the league I would disagree.

Jerome Iginla
Joe Thornton
Patrick Sharp
Danny B
Marty St Louis
The Sedins
Marian Hossa.

The list goes on and on. I think players forwards start to enter their prime at 25.. not peak. At least the top end players.

Only 2 of the top 100 goal scorers of all time had a career best season beyond age 30.

37 of the top 100 set their career high in goals at (or before) age 23.

Gretzky's last 40+ goal season was at age 29. Only broke the 30 goal plateau twice after that.

Guys like Selanne and Esposito are/were true anomalies.
- bradleyc4

Peak implies that a player no longer improves (statistically) after 25. I wholeheartedly disagree.