Over paying for a #1 doesn't make it a good move. For ONCE i would like to see this organization remain patient. Build a team through the draft, sign free agents to suppliment the team and let the team grow. I get that sometimes it works (Pens) and sometimes it doesn't (Edmonton still hasn't become a contender) but this team just never seems to stay patient.
- nastyflyergirl

i certainly agree with this, but if someone proposed a 1 for 1 swap, couts for OEL, i'd do it.

yes look at the devils. they won their cups with stevens and niedrmeyer. the flyers don't have a consistent org philosophy that they stick with long enuf like NJ to be able to be the exception to the rule like NJ was last yr. meanwhile, most of the cup winners post lockout have had dominant dmen as catalysts. i'd have full faith that they flyers can draft and develop a forward to replace someone like couts...zero faith with a top pairing dman, so they will always have to overpay in terms of assets and/or $$.
- isaiah520

I disagree.. Its about having a complete team and a complete defense.

Look no further than Nashville.

i certainly agree with this, but if someone proposed a 1 for 1 swap, couts for OEL, i'd do it.
- isaiah520

I think I might too. I don't think Phoenix would.

Oh you disagree with my brilliant plan? Well then you are a fool!!
- Jsaquella

I'm dealing with fools and trolls and soft targets. It's just strafing runs in my underwear before my first cup of coffee. I don't have time for these clowns.

I think had he traded just Carter that Richards would have been fine with it, but that ship has sailed.

I like the team they have. They still have a few missing pieces, but dealing for them now is buying high.
- Jsaquella

Our strength is forwards others defense. Even swap like jvr for schenn very possible. That's not buying high.

i certainly agree with this, but if someone proposed a 1 for 1 swap, couts for OEL, i'd do it.
- isaiah520

I dont think I would.

There are other players out there that could sufficiently fill the need on defense, and wouldnt cost you Couts.

gomez was a calder winner too, and look what happened to his career.
- hammarby31

Didn't he get eaten by a shark or something? Think that's what I heard.

Didn't he get eaten by a shark or something? Think that's what I heard.
- NickTheKid87

no, i think he's playing for the sharks or something. at least that's the word on the street.

I dont think I would.

There are other players out there that could sufficiently fill the need on defense, and wouldnt cost you Couts.
- jak521

I wonder what NYI would want for Streit or Visnovsky? Both guys will be UFAs this offseason as well which probably means Visnovsky will be available at some point, unless he pulls a Nabokov. Would give up too much for either though.

2nd double post in as many days. Smh.

no, i think he's playing for the sharks or something. at least that's the word on the street.
- hammarby31

Sea World?

Our strength is forwards others defense. Even swap like jvr for schenn very possible. That's not buying high.
- SMS4016

LOL, but that isn't what you are talking about. You are talking about #1 defenseman and top line wingers. Neither Schenn nor JVR fit that category.

We ALL agree on the Flyers needs despite what you keep vomiting out of your mind to the contrary. What we don't agree on are your "foolish" trade proposals. Reality is not a video game. Reality involves two teams.

That makes as much sense as getting a bona fide #1 guy. In fact, being able to roll three solid pairs that complement the forwards makes more sense to me than landing one guy and doing the all the eggs in one basket approach.
- Jsaquella

Can someone please for the love of god tell me when the last team was to win the cup with 3 and 4 dmen? I mean withOUT a #1 puck moving pp or mean beastly shutdown dman?

Sea World?
- NickTheKid87

yeah, i think that's it. poor gomez. well, he's not that poor, even with the buyout.

Can someone please for the love of god tell me when the last team was to win the cup with 3 and 4 dmen? I mean withOUT a #1 puck moving pp or mean beastly shutdown dman?
- SMS4016

1917 Seattle Metropolitans

Our strength is forwards others defense. Even swap like jvr for schenn very possible. That's not buying high.
- SMS4016

A lot of people feel that JvR for Luke Schenn wasn't exactly an even swap, that the Flyers should have gotten a bit more for JvR, like a draft pick or prospect added to the return.

In fact if anything, the JvR-Schenn trade shows the disproportionate value of solid defensemen right now.

That's kind of the point of the people you're calling fools right now. Trading for a puck moving defensemen, right now, is dealing from a point of weakness or at the very least being a buyer in what is entirely a seller's market.

I disagree.. Its about having a complete team and a complete defense.

Look no further than Nashville.
- jak521

they don't generate enuf offense. there's a reason the flyers went after pronger & they don't make it to the finals w/o him. except for CAR, all the cup winners had a very prominent dman or 2.

Can someone please for the love of god tell me when the last team was to win the cup with 3 and 4 dmen? I mean withOUT a #1 puck moving pp or mean beastly shutdown dman?
- SMS4016

I don't think anyone on this thread said we are one of the top Cup Contending teams in the league. We are all saying that we have some great pieces for the FUTURE and that some parts are stilling missing. I haven't heard one person on here say that this is a Cup-quality team.

Can someone please for the love of god tell me when the last team was to win the cup with 3 and 4 dmen? I mean withOUT a #1 puck moving pp or mean beastly shutdown dman?
- SMS4016

We have both of those on our team... Timonen, like it or not, is still one of the best puck moving d-men in the game. His first pass is beautiful, he rarely turns the puck over, and still puts up very solid points.

Schenn, who has been a beast all season, is a true shut down d-man. He is still young and has some aspects to his game that are a bit raw, but he is that physical shutdown d-man.

What we dont have is the glamorous name. We did. Pronger, but his injury changed that. Does that mean we have to go out and get a #1 at whatever costs? No, that would be extremely foolish. Instead you need to look at the makeup of your roster, and what is realistically available and go from there. I have no doubt Homer will explore all options.

Instead of dealing Couts for a #1 stud d-man in the making.. why not attempt to address the needs instead of trying to add a name.

1917 Seattle Metropolitans
- hammarby31

You vastly under-rate Eddie Carpenter.

Eddie Carpenter
Defense
Born Jun 15 1890 -- Hartford, MI
Height 6.00 -- Weight 170 -- Shoots R


--- Regular Season --- ---- Playoffs ----
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1916-17 Seattle Metropolitans PCHA 18 6 0 6 0
1919-20 Quebec Bulldogs NHL 24 8 3 11 19
1920-21 Hamilton Tigers NHL 20 2 1 3 17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NHL Totals 44 10 4 14 36

they don't generate enuf offense. there's a reason the flyers went after pronger & they don't make it to the finals w/o him. except for CAR, all the cup winners had a very prominent dman or 2.
- isaiah520

His point was that, while there a lot of Cup teams that have had some big time defenseman on them, there are also a ton of teams that have had said defensemen and zero Cups.

he's been very good but i'd like to see the short-side high blocker goals start to get eliminated. it seems to be a bit of a weakness - both during the game and in the dreaded SO. overall, very happy with with his play.
- hammarby31

Agreed. He has to sure up the short-side. Opponents have identified that as a weakness and have beaten him there a fair amount. He's got to make the adjustment.

A lot of people feel that JvR for Luke Schenn wasn't exactly an even swap, that the Flyers should have gotten a bit more for JvR, like a draft pick or prospect added to the return.

In fact if anything, the JvR-Schenn trade shows the disproportionate value of solid defensemen right now.

That's kind of the point of the people you're calling fools right now. Trading for a puck moving defensemen, right now, is dealing from a point of weakness or at the very least being a buyer in what is entirely a seller's market.
- Jsaquella

all the more reason there needs to be a sense of urgency in the flyers org about making changes in-house to do a better job w/ drftng/dvlpng dmen.

His point was that, while there a lot of Cup teams that have had some big time defenseman on them, there are also a ton of teams that have had said defensemen and zero Cups.
- NickTheKid87

Thank you.

Its not as easy as... go get a #1/ win cup.

You need balance. Right now the worst thing the Flyers could do is go into a "go get a #1 dman at all costs" mode. When Meszy gets back our defense will be pretty damn strong with a few interesting depth guys.

I was just telling you the way it feels from a Penguins fan aspect.
- nbartley9

Funny thing is the Flyers, with Carter and Richards, were not able to eliminate the Pens in the playoffs but this team without them were.