"Quick, close the door before a case we can win comes in."


- tangent_man

Ha, I loved Adam Schiff. Best era was with Schiff, Briscoe, Curtis, McCoy, and (Angie Harmon, forget her name). What a starting line-up.

Just my opinion, but the length of time Crosby was out too long. One more concussion and he might hang it up. It actually is kinda sad, I still think his original concussion was a cheap shot.

I would rather have Giroux than him, although I would rather have Malkin over Giroux.

Go Flyers.

Here are some realistic trades to add another puck moving defenseman to the Flyers.
Fedor Tyutin from Columbus. Tyutin is 29 with a cap hit of 4.5 million thru 17-18. He has good mobility, hockey sense and size and can be used in all situations. He will most likely cost a 1st in either 2013 or 2014 or a 2nd in '14 along with a solid D and forward prospect.

Chris Butler from Calgary. Butler is 26, has a cap hit of only 1.25 million and is an RFA at the end of the season. He has decent mobility and hockey sense, doesn't play very physical. He would be an upgrade over Gus and Gervais and would most likely cost a 2nd in 2014 and a mid level prospect.

Ron Hainsey from Winnipeg. Hainsey is 32 and has a cap hit of 4.5 million, he is a UFA at seasons end is most likely going to be traded on or before the deadline. Hainsey while not particularly physical, uses his size well defensively, skates well, and plays a solid, smart game. He will most likely cost 2014's 2nd and a good prospect like Gostisbehere or Cousins.

All of the above are doable deals, that don't give away top young players and make the team better. My preference would be to go for Hainsey, because there are no cap implications beyond this season.

Thoughts??
- BiggE

I would rather not move Ghost or Cousins for a rental. And even if they re-signed Hainsey, it would probably be for a less than savory amount. Wouldn't trade a 1st for Tyutin either. I liked Bill's idea about Yannick Weber. He'd probably be cheap (3rd rounder?) and could be an upgrade over Gervais.

Ok let me try a different approach. I believe as you guys that we have a ton of core talent. I believe with puck moveR pp dman and top winger in 2 to 4 years we can truly win the cup. La kings were the sane way. Stock piled talent. We however do not have the d or goalie they had. What did la do tO put themselves over the top??? Trade those assets!!!!!! Look at what they gave up for Richards!!!! Simmonds(who everyone was trying to get in a trade) + b schenn ( the top prospect in the NHL) + a 3rd round pick!!!!!!! Were they nuts like I get called??? They gave up way to much but who won the cup??? So la is smart but I'm not nuts for saying over pay a little (not alot a little) to get our pieces.

Here are some realistic trades to add another puck moving defenseman to the Flyers.
Fedor Tyutin from Columbus. Tyutin is 29 with a cap hit of 4.5 million thru 17-18. He has good mobility, hockey sense and size and can be used in all situations. He will most likely cost a 1st in either 2013 or 2014 or a 2nd in '14 along with a solid D and forward prospect.

Chris Butler from Calgary. Butler is 26, has a cap hit of only 1.25 million and is an RFA at the end of the season. He has decent mobility and hockey sense, doesn't play very physical. He would be an upgrade over Gus and Gervais and would most likely cost a 2nd in 2014 and a mid level prospect.

Ron Hainsey from Winnipeg. Hainsey is 32 and has a cap hit of 4.5 million, he is a UFA at seasons end is most likely going to be traded on or before the deadline. Hainsey while not particularly physical, uses his size well defensively, skates well, and plays a solid, smart game. He will most likely cost 2014's 2nd and a good prospect like Gostisbehere or Cousins.

All of the above are doable deals, that don't give away top young players and make the team better. My preference would be to go for Hainsey, because there are no cap implications beyond this season.

Thoughts??
- BiggE

tyutin is the only interesting player to me, but that contract's a commitment.

I never said they didn't. I'm just saying that adding a #1 helps a good complete team become an even better complete team, and that since the lockout (not counting LA), 2/3 of Cup Winners have a bona fide #1.
- jmatchett

I'm not disagreeing, a #1 certainly helps, but I am with you, that it's not worth blwoing up the core to get one at this point.

could link you to a few OT goals he setup to dispute he's not a beautiful passer, but that would just be nitpicking. miss that guy big time.
- OrangeBlack27

Giroux is a beautiful passer. Carle was a very good passer, but never really had those passes the made your jaw drop.

So, not counting Doughty (who I think has shown he is a #1), there are 2 out of 6 Cup champions without a #1 since the lockout (and by the way, Letang may not be a #1, but he played like it in the Finals).
Anaheim had 2 of them in Pronger and Neidermayer in 2007.
Detroit had Lidstrom in 2008.
Chicago had Keith (and Seabrook) in 2010.
Boston had Chara in 2011.

So no, you don't NEED a #1. But they certainly help, and are certainly worth going after if it doesn't involve totally crippling your team.
- jmatchett

Sorry, but nobody has won the Cup since the lockout.

was thinking recently, that i bet people will rag on jake for turning pucks over but it's the same kind of thing as carle, despite different positions. if the puck is on your stick a hell of a lot, you're going to have more opportunities to turn it over. counting stats don't account for these things. especially ones like that that tend to be subjective as is.
- OrangeBlack27

That's why people didn't like him. Since the puck is usually in your zone when a defenseman is passing it, a defenseman's turnover can be way more glaring that a forward's. A defenseman's primary job should be to limit the other team from scoring by taking the puck away and removing it from the zone, preferably to a teammate. When a forward turns it over in the neutral/offensive zone, the damage can usually be limited more than a defensive zone turnover.
I wasn't a big fan of Carle, but understood that his #/turnovers were coupled with his ice time. But for the $$ he got...see ya.

Ok let me try a different approach. I believe as you guys that we have a ton of core talent. I believe with puck moveR pp dman and top winger in 2 to 4 years we can truly win the cup. La kings were the sane way. Stock piled talent. We however do not have the d or goalie they had. What did la do tO put themselves over the top??? Trade those assets!!!!!! Look at what they gave up for Richards!!!! Simmonds(who everyone was trying to get in a trade) + b schenn ( the top prospect in the NHL) + a 3rd round pick!!!!!!! Were they nuts like I get called??? They gave up way to much but who won the cup??? So la is smart but I'm not nuts for saying over pay a little (not alot a little) to get our pieces.
- SMS4016

They took a risk and it paid off. They also sucked for a bunch of years and could afford to make those deals. How many teams made big time trades/signings and DIDN'T win the Cup? More.

Sorry, but nobody has won the Cup since the lockout.


- BringBack25

I hate you

Yes, logic and reason are on holiday.
- Jsaquella

Sarumanday? Wacky Wednesday? Typical Buzzday?

That's why people didn't like him. Since the puck is usually in your zone when a defenseman is passing it, a defenseman's turnover can be way more glaring that a forward's. A defenseman's primary job should be to limit the other team from scoring by taking the puck away and removing it from the zone, preferably to a teammate. When a forward turns it over in the neutral/offensive zone, the damage can usually be limited more than a defensive zone turnover.
I wasn't a big fan of Carle, but understood that his #/turnovers were coupled with his ice time. But for the $$ he got...see ya.
- jmatchett

any dman averaging 23+ minutes (in all situations) and ~40 points a year on the open market is going to get paid.

Agreed. He has to sure up the short-side. Opponents have identified that as a weakness and have beaten him there a fair amount. He's got to make the adjustment.
- PLindbergh31

easier said than done. it's a vulnerable spot. personally, i think the toughest area to stop a shot is stick side, right above the pad, regardless of the strong or short-side, especially on a breakaway where the player moves

i watch these guys come in and wire the puck, and sometimes there's just no stopping them. if it's labeled, it's going in. doesn't matter how quick or how good of a position the goalie has. helpless.

any dman averaging 23+ minutes (in all situations) and ~40 points a year on the open market is going to get paid.
- OrangeBlack27

And this Flyers team would be hard-pressed to keep him at that cost (thanks to Wideman's deal).

I hate you
- jak521

You are a fool if you cannot see the genius in my brilliant, well punctuated, totally realistic posts.

I'd like to see grossman put neals head through the glass tonight
- Just5

easier said than done. it's a vulnerable spot. personally, i think the toughest area to stop a shot is stick side, right above the pad, regardless of the strong or short-side, especially on a breakaway where the player moves

i watch these guys come in and wire the puck, and sometimes there's just no stopping them. if it's labeled, it's going in. doesn't matter how quick or how good of a position the goalie has. helpless.
- hammarby31

You certainly would know better than I Sir. That is another area Bryzgalov has to improve. Breakaways/shootouts. Majority of the time he looks overmatched.

I understand just looking at numbers can be deceptive, but it can also be indicative of something.

The Flyers defense... you know, the one that is terrible offensively.. has a combined 26 points.

Phx has 29.
Edm- 16
Min- with that Super Hero Suter? : 23
SJ: 20
Bos, La, NYI, NJ: 25

This list goes on and on.

On top of it, our second best point producing D-man has missed nearly the whole start of the season...

When Meszy gets back, and with the addition of Gusty.. we have a pretty mobile D.

Kimmo-Schenn
Cobhorn-Grossmann
Meszy-Gusty


- jak521

Say the Flyers had been able to retain Carle last offseason, and Meszy was healthy..

Timonen-Schenn
Meszy-Carle
Cobhorn-Grossmann

You honestly dont believe that defense is capable of winning a cup... only because they dont have a true #1?

Seriously trying to understand...
- jak521

Well said. One solid piece away maybe two with injuries. That d looks good and Colborne is that much better paired with Grossman every night.

Patrick Caisse ‏@PatrickCaisse
Alex Galchenyuk tallied 7 of his 10pts in 8 games in which he played more than 11:30. Conclusion? He deserves to play more. #Habs


I just want to point something out as to how this type of stat can be misleading, given our discussion about the misuse of statistics.

The conclusion Mr. Caisse is drawing is that Galchenyuk scores more when he gets over 11:30 TOI, therefore he should get more ice time. This is structurally sound.

However, it is possible that Galchenyuk is getting over 11:30 TOI because he is flying in that particular game, which usually leads to offense. Also, he could get less than 11:30 TOI in a game because he has struggled to create anything offensively. If he's playing poorly, and you give him over 11:30 TOI, he might be hurting the team, therefore you cut his ice time.

Now, I haven't watched enough Habs' games to know what is true in this scenario but do we see how this can be deceiving?

Yes, logic and reason are on holiday.
- Jsaquella

They've been working very hard in the Edmonton and Buffalo threads - they deserve a nice vacation.

they don't generate enuf offense. there's a reason the flyers went after pronger & they don't make it to the finals w/o him. except for CAR, all the cup winners had a very prominent dman or 2.
- isaiah520

I lean towards agreeing with you here. And it's based on the Flyers style of play currently. If you have a very strong team structure that checks well all over the ice and plays a solid team game, like the Devils do. Then you can certainly get away with just having a solid defense core, 1-6. But there is also no doubt that adding a top defenseman to the Devils makes them a better team, and would've gone a long way to helping them beat LA last year.
When you play like the Flyers do, I feel you need that high minute top 2 way defenseman, who can control the flow of the game and the puck, shuts down other teams top players. And well as providing offense and a PP point dynamic presence. When you're identity is that of an offensive attacking team, you need that player in my opinion.

Well said. One solid piece away maybe two with injuries. That d looks good and Colborne is that much better paired with Grossman every night.
- Stinkfitz

Remember before last year our D looked like this:

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Lilja

Crazy how just a few bad breaks can change everything.

Ok let me try a different approach. I believe as you guys that we have a ton of core talent. I believe with puck moveR pp dman and top winger in 2 to 4 years we can truly win the cup. La kings were the sane way. Stock piled talent. We however do not have the d or goalie they had. What did la do tO put themselves over the top??? Trade those assets!!!!!! Look at what they gave up for Richards!!!! Simmonds(who everyone was trying to get in a trade) + b schenn ( the top prospect in the NHL) + a 3rd round pick!!!!!!! Were they nuts like I get called??? They gave up way to much but who won the cup??? So la is smart but I'm not nuts for saying over pay a little (not alot a little) to get our pieces.
- SMS4016

Prior to last season, their goalie had the same questions that Bryzgalov had. What happened? Quick got red hot, much like Bryzgalov did in March.

Adding Richards and Carter helped, no question. But they were secondary pieces added to the mix after the core of Kopitar, Brown and Doughty had matured and grew as players.

You seem to want to use the LA method, but skip the growing pains.

There's also a massive difference between what LA did and what you suggest. Wayne Simmonds was playing 3rd line minutes in LA. Brayden Schenn had played under 10 NHL games. You're proposing dumping the NHL ready talent on hand for less proven talent.

The biggest issue is the impatience. You acknowledge the young talent, yet demand immediate trades for team needs, while the market favors the selling team. Trading right now for young puck moving defenseman is buying high. The market for those kind of players is, right now, at it's absolute peak.

The problem people have isn't just in trading Couturier or Schenn, it's in doing so while the market is too high. The other issue is your player analysis. Trading Couturier for Yandle is a bad move. Dumping a proven veteran goalie and then trading assets for a young unpoven goalie is a very questionable path to take.

We have both of those on our team... Timonen, like it or not, is still one of the best puck moving d-men in the game. His first pass is beautiful, he rarely turns the puck over, and still puts up very solid points.

Schenn, who has been a beast all season, is a true shut down d-man. He is still young and has some aspects to his game that are a bit raw, but he is that physical shutdown d-man.

What we dont have is the glamorous name. We did. Pronger, but his injury changed that. Does that mean we have to go out and get a #1 at whatever costs? No, that would be extremely foolish. Instead you need to look at the makeup of your roster, and what is realistically available and go from there. I have no doubt Homer will explore all options.

Instead of dealing Couts for a #1 stud d-man in the making.. why not attempt to address the needs instead of trying to add a name.
- jak521

I have to disagree here. While Timonen is still a good solid defenseman. I don't think he is in that class anymore. and I'm as big a fan and supporter of Luke Schenn as there is. And I think he has the potential to be a true NHL shut down defenseman. But he's not there yet.