Yea but in that list there isnt a true #1 d-man, a true #1A/B d-man, a true puck mover, a true shutdown d-man, or a true physical d-man.
- jak521

They traded for Eminger. Doesn't get much more #1 than that!

I really dont think he is in Carlo Colaiacovo teritory yet........but hey its early....
- billyberg10

His injury concerns are also vastly overblown.

They traded for Eminger. Doesn't get much more #1 than that!
- jmatchett

Which they happened to turn into Matt Carle. Funny how that game works.

Yea but in that list there isnt a true #1 d-man, a true #1A/B d-man, a true puck mover, a true shutdown d-man, or a true physical d-man.
- jak521

Pronger is all of the above. (frank)ing Grabovski....

I was a Luke Schenn fan and still think he wil develope into a consistant top 4 quality defensemen. I just always wished his foot speed was a little better.......his first pass needs some work too.

Injuries are a funny thing.. JVR was often injured sure, but being a kid in a mens leauge can do that.

I Still think it was a great "hockey trade" and both teams seam pleased with the outcome.
- billyberg10

Absolutely. JvR is a very likeable player, IMO. I don't many Flyers fans that I interact that were happy to see him go, but people I know seem to like how Schenn seems to hit first and ask questions later in his own zone.

Did you actually read what I posted?

My entire point was that the lack of homegrown defensemen was mitigated by Holmgren's ability to land solid veteran defensemen or young developing defensemen from other teams.

If you draft a center and trade him in 2 years for a defensemen, what's the difference from drafting the defenseman? You still end up with him on the roster.
- Jsaquella

I keep saying this as well but it doesn't quite click for people. It would be nice to draft and develop a good, top 4 defenseman but I think that is nothing more than the preference of an individual fan.

my thing is the organization has no faith in drafting Dmen
- vejim

They drafted four defensemen last year. They drafted Sbisa, Bourdon, Marshall & signed Gustafsson and Manning as free agent.

They traded for Eminger. Doesn't get much more #1 than that!
- jmatchett

I can't wait for when they rename the Norris Trophy after Eminger. That is going to be magical.

Which they happened to turn into Matt Carle. Funny how that game works.
- jak521

Horrible trade. Should have kept Eminger. He would have led them to Valhalla!

I was a Luke Schenn fan and still think he wil develope into a consistant top 4 quality defensemen. I just always wished his foot speed was a little better.......his first pass needs some work too.

Injuries are a funny thing.. JVR was often injured sure, but being a kid in a mens leauge can do that.

I Still think it was a great "hockey trade" and both teams seam pleased with the outcome.
- billyberg10

In my opinion, watching L. Schenn, neither his foot speed or his first pass are an issue. For a guy that's supposed to be a defensive defenseman, he makes a solid first pass out of his zone. His issues are his decision making at times. That's what needs to get better.

...........are Philly fans happy with Luke Schenn?

Cause Toronto Fans have a Giant CN Tower Erection for JVR right now.. This kid goes to the net, has speed to burn and soft hands... playing lights out hockey with Kessel right now
- billyberg10

Very happy. Don't get me wrong he's still a work in progress but he has all the tools. I'm confident he will put it all together in the near future.

I cant lie. It's somewhat frustrating to see JVR playing so well for you guys. But then again he never really fit on this team. I cant think of one player here he ever developed solid chemistry with. We were never going to build the team around him so the return of Schenn might seems like a big win for Toronto in the deal, but the way I see it is we got a D man capable of playing near 30 minutes a night with a bright future for a guy we were still waiting on to adjust to our style of play. Good deal both ways, methinks.

...........are Philly fans happy with Luke Schenn?

Cause Toronto Fans have a Giant CN Tower Erection for JVR right now.. This kid goes to the net, has speed to burn and soft hands... playing lights out hockey with Kessel right now
- billyberg10

i've watched quite a few TOR gms and JVR seems like a threat almost every time he's on the ice. it's his most consistent level since he's been in the league, but it's still only a handful of gms. he has to prove he can stay in the lineup. schenn has generally been good, but i was against the trade because of JVRs upside.

They traded for Eminger. Doesn't get much more #1 than that!
- jmatchett

June 20, 2008: Traded to Philadelphia by Washington with Washington's 3rd round choice (Jacob Deserres) in 2008 Entry Draft for Philadelphia's 1st round choice (John Carlson) in 2008 Entry Draft, June 20, 2008.

November 7, 2008: Traded to Tampa Bay by Philadelphia with Steve Downie and Tampa Bay's 4th round choice (previously acquired, Tampa Bay selected Alex Hutchings) in 2009 Entry Draft for Matt Carle and San Jose's 3rd round choice (previously acquired, Philadelphia selected Simon Bertilsson) in 2009 Entry Draft, November 7, 2008.

In a way it sort of worked out. Who knows if the Flyers draft Carlson anyway?

They drafted four defensemen last year. They drafted Sbisa, Bourdon, Marshall & signed Gustafsson and Manning as free agent.
- Jsaquella

Going to see the Phantoms play at the WFC and actually kind of want to see how Brandon Manning and Oliver Lauridsen look.

I dont think I am being ridiculous...we all have our opinions and some prove to be right
- vejim

Really?

after watching the Panther broadcasters mock the Flyers I realized that this organization is never going to win anything with Holmgren as GM. He made 2 good trades getting Timonen, Hartnell and Coburn, trades JVR for a turnover machine, trades his 2 best players for promise and signs a wacky goalie for 9 years. Homer's drafting strategy is questionable? He could have drafted Carlson, Markstrom and Hamilton. I think Bozo the clown could do a better job.
- vejim

Sorry, but this post is ridiculous.

Your reply to my list of defensemen Holmgren acquired was ridiculous and totally ignored the point it made.

Its a shame really. The kid never had a shot with a lot of fans here in Philly. Lofty expectations (not stat wise but in comparison to John LeClair).

I have said numerous times he has 40g/30a potential year in and out.
- jak521

One of those things....The Flyers had exceptional talent up front and could afford to turn JVR over for a solid Shutdown Defenseman. JVR is one of those players who thrives with added responsabilityit seams.......If he was getting 3rd line mins in Toronto right now, he would probably only have 2- 3 goals.. Kessel is a very underrated playmaker and has found excellent chemistry with Him. Carlysle has him planted infront of the net and he is cleaning up on some dirty rebounds.

In my opinion, watching L. Schenn, neither his foot speed or his first pass are an issue. For a guy that's supposed to be a defensive defenseman, he makes a solid first pass out of his zone. His issues are his decision making at times. That's what needs to get better.
- MJL

Luckily, decision making usually improves with experience so hopefully that will ring true for Luke.

Did you actually read what I posted?

My entire point was that the lack of homegrown defensemen was mitigated by Holmgren's ability to land solid veteran defensemen or young developing defensemen from other teams.

If you draft a center and trade him in 2 years for a defensemen, what's the difference from drafting the defenseman? You still end up with him on the roster.
- Jsaquella

I didn't know we were into Darwinian hockey now. "On the Origin of Defensemen"

I keep saying this as well but it doesn't quite click for people. It would be nice to draft and develop a good, top 4 defenseman but I think that is nothing more than the preference of an individual fan.
- NickTheKid87

It would be great. Had they held onto Sbisa, they probably end up with one. But had they kept Sbisa, they don't make the 2010 SCF.

I didn't know we were into Darwinian hockey now. "On the Origin of Defensemen"
- Flyskippy

Biodigital Jazz, man.

It would be great. Had they held onto Sbisa, they probably end up with one. But had they kept Sbisa, they don't make the 2010 SCF.
- Jsaquella

Exactly. I don't consider moving Sbisa bad at all when you get a dman like Pronger. Had it not been for the freak injury, who knows how the Flyers play in last years playoffs or in the next few seasons?

Since he's been hired, Holmgren has brought in the following defensemen:

Braydon Coburn
Kimmo Timonen
Matt Carle
Chris Pronger
Nik Grossmann
Andrej Meszaros
Luke Schenn

He's very capable of acquiring defensemen. It'd be nice if they could draft one that comes up through the system, but at the same time, I agree with the organizational policy of taking the best player on the board, whether he's a center or defenseman
- Jsaquella

Very solid points as usual Sir. I noticed you left out Messrs Walker, and Lilja. Was that by design?

Absolutely. JvR is a very likeable player, IMO. I don't many Flyers fans that I interact that were happy to see him go, but people I know seem to like how Schenn seems to hit first and ask questions later in his own zone.
- johndewar

Schenn is so good at rubbing players out along the boards, he just needs to learn when to not try for the "big hit". Those poor decisions put him out of position far to often...He's young though and with time and experience comes consistancy.

One of those things....The Flyers had exceptional talent up front and could afford to turn JVR over for a solid Shutdown Defenseman. JVR is one of those players who thrives with added responsabilityit seams.......If he was getting 3rd line mins in Toronto right now, he would probably only have 2- 3 goals.. Kessel is a very underrated playmaker and has found excellent chemistry with Him. Carlysle has him planted infront of the net and he is cleaning up on some dirty rebounds.
- billyberg10

In Toronto, there's nobody pushing JvR for ice time. He's locked in on the 1st line, getting first unit PP action and playing almost 20 minutes a night. Here he was seeing 13-15 a night, playing on the 2nd PP and didn't always assert himself.

Did you actually read what I posted?

My entire point was that the lack of homegrown defensemen was mitigated by Holmgren's ability to land solid veteran defensemen or young developing defensemen from other teams.

If you draft a center and trade him in 2 years for a defensemen, what's the difference from drafting the defenseman? You still end up with him on the roster.
- Jsaquella

Bill once posted this & i think it's an insightful reply:

"One byproduct of the win-now philosophy is often impatience with young players. Another is that the starting defensemen in particular often wind up costing more, salary-cap wise and/or in terms of assets expended in trades to acquire them. The Nashville Predators and current New Rangers successfully built much of their defense via the draft or trade while the now-established defenseman was still young and unproven (that's how the Rangers got Ryan McDonagh and the Flyers got Braydon Coburn, for instance)"