Look, I get that you are proud of the two Stanley Cups. If I was a Flyers fan, I would be too.

But any impartial observer will tell you that those two years were the absolute nadir for skill in professional hockey.

Hell, read "The Game" by Dryden - he think that the Habs winning again saved hockey.

And ever since, it's been the focal point of the Flyers' marketing campaign.

You can't have it both ways.
- Atomic Wedgie

You've over stated your point here. I know that's what most older hockey fans think but that's crap. All those skill players were still in the league and the Flyers were loaded with skill. They didn't punch pucks into the net. They had three HOFers on that team who deserve to be there on skill alone and another one in Leach that if he could have kept himself clean probably would have stayed in Philly and put up Hall worthy numbers.

Quoting Ken Dryden is crazy. What's he going to say? Of course he thinks his team saved hockey. They didn't change the game. There were still goons and goon filled teams for ten years+ after they won. Those teams just never had the skill to win Cups.

JvR is going to turn into another Corey Perry!
- stveshdy

That's ok. Perry will be a Flyer next year.

I can't stand Dryden and of course he's going to say his Habs teams saved hockey because he's an egomaniac. It's BS and he's perfect in his current role as a politician. I would say the nadir of hockey was probably the New Jersey trap era and boring games or the fox puck. Or maybe the lockout that cancelled a season?

A lot of Leafs fans you talk to are older and remember the 67 cup and also like to add that the golden years of the NHL were when it was only the original six. I don't see how that's the case when one of 2 teams win almost every year.
- Hextall271

In my humble opinion, it was never better than the '87 Canada Cup.

That era was fun. No lead was safe.

Kinda like Pens-Flyers games now.

Part of it was definitely confidence, for which all blame rests with Ron Wilson.

Part of it was unrealistic expectations - the pendulum swings pretty hard in Toronto. He never should have played in the league at 18 - nobody should. He would have been so much better off playing another year of junior and going to the WJC.

But honestly, he doesn't have the speed to be a 1st liner. I know, I know, you guys have seen him for 20 games now.

But take a look at his ice time: after being above 20 minutes for the first month, he's now creeping back down. He's now averaging about 4th in minutes per defenceman per game for you in the last 4 or 5 games - which is about where he should be.

He'll never play on your power play - ever. He'll never put up points.

But as to your bolded point above - no doubt about it. When the trade occurred, everyone said that it was a fresh start for both guys.

Looks like that has happened, and that's a good thing.

Despite the negativity directed towards Schenn here, nobody ever made it personal. I don't think you could find a single Leafs fan who would say they "hated" Schenn.
- Atomic Wedgie

Schenn doesn't have to put up points to be a top pairing defenseman. There is no doubt that he has the potential to be a compliment on a top pairing to a #1 defenseman. He can become a physical shut down top pairing defender in this League. It remains to be seen if he does. But he has that potential. And his foot speed, which was way overblown by many Toronto fans, is not going to be an impediment to him reaching that level.

Look, I get that you are proud of the two Stanley Cups. If I was a Flyers fan, I would be too.

But any impartial observer will tell you that those two years were the absolute nadir for skill in professional hockey.

Hell, read "The Game" by Dryden - he think that the Habs winning again saved hockey.

And ever since, it's been the focal point of the Flyers' marketing campaign.

You can't have it both ways.
- Atomic Wedgie

I didn't know that physical hockey equated dirty hockey. Thats what the flyers and their fans are proud of. Dirty play is not celebrated by the flyers faithful, thats reserved for eagles fans.

Understood. Would you trade LeClair for Adam Foote? With the benefit of hindsight, I sure the hell wouldn't
- PLindbergh31

Depends on what you needed at the time I suppose. Both were great at what they did.

If JVR becomes John LeClair, and Luke Schenn becomes Adam Foote, that wouldn't be good.

I don't think that will happen though.
- PLindbergh31

It will. Velvet sock monkey, ice fist lead pipe wrench lock.

I'd like to see Briere sit or play much less time. I'd like Mcginn with Schenn and Simmonds because Briere does nothing on the forecheck, doesn't look like hes putting much effort out, and is the worst player on the team in his own zone. Sure he scores clutch goals but he is out on the ice for more goals against than for. Also not to mention all of the idiotic stick infraction penalties he takes. Sorry for the rant
- Richieattack18

Agreed. If we can't make the POs this year, I'm hoping someone will take him (and he will be willing to go somewhere else). As extremely unlikely as that is.

That's ok. Perry will be a Flyer next year.
- PLindbergh31

That could be another strike out for Homer.

It will. Velvet sock monkey, ice fist lead pipe wrench lock.
- mayorofangrytown

ice fist.. i like it

You've over stated your point here. I know that's what most older hockey fans think but that's crap. All those skill players were still in the league and the Flyers were loaded with skill. They didn't punch pucks into the net. They had three HOFers on that team who deserve to be there on skill alone and another one in Leach that if he could have kept himself clean probably would have stayed in Philly and put up Hall worthy numbers.

Quoting Ken Dryden is crazy. What's he going to say? Of course he thinks his team saved hockey. They didn't change the game. There were still goons and goon filled teams for ten years+ after they won. Those teams just never had the skill to win Cups.
- mayorofangrytown

And even the so called goons on those teams, had some skill to their game. They were far more then just players looking to go around and drop the gloves.

In my humble opinion, it was never better than the '87 Canada Cup.

That era was fun. No lead was safe.

Kinda like Pens-Flyers games now.
- Atomic Wedgie

Those '80's Flyers teams are revered in these parts despite not winning a Cup.

You've over stated your point here. I know that's what most older hockey fans think but that's crap. All those skill players were still in the league and the Flyers were loaded with skill. They didn't punch pucks into the net. They had three HOFers on that team who deserve to be there on skill alone and another one in Leach that if he could have kept himself clean probably would have stayed in Philly and put up Hall worthy numbers.

Quoting Ken Dryden is crazy. What's he going to say? Of course he thinks his team saved hockey. They didn't change the game. There were still goons and goon filled teams for ten years+ after they won. Those teams just never had the skill to win Cups.
- mayorofangrytown

Back to back Stanley Cups, and they only put three guys in the HOF, and one of them is Bill Barber?

Hell, the 74-75 Leafs had four guys go to the hall.

And even the so called goons on those teams, had some skill to their game. They were far more then just players looking to go around and drop the gloves.
- MJL

Didn't schultz score 20 once? He wasn't a one dimensional goon.

Back to back Stanley Cups, and they only put three guys in the HOF, and one of them is Bill Barber?

Hell, the 74-75 Leafs had four guys go to the hall.
- Atomic Wedgie

Didn't know you had to be a Hall of Famer to win the cup

Those '80's Flyers teams are revered in these parts despite not winning a Cup.
- johndewar

I prefered the 90s Flyers.

Lindros was simply unlike any other player I had ever seen.

I prefered the 90s Flyers.

Lindros was simply unlike any other player I had ever seen.
- Atomic Wedgie

Loved Lindros and Leclair, but looking up at the 80's Oilers is a much easier pill to swallow than looking up at stupid New Jersey, like the Flyers did through much of the 90's.

Schenn doesn't have to put up points to be a top pairing defenseman. There is no doubt that he has the potential to be a compliment on a top pairing to a #1 defenseman. He can become a physical shut down top pairing defender in this League. It remains to be seen if he does. But he has that potential. And his foot speed, which was way overblown by many Toronto fans, is not going to be an impediment to him reaching that level.
- MJL

i could see him being similar to weber, i have been impressed with his shot lately

In my humble opinion, it was never better than the '87 Canada Cup.

That era was fun. No lead was safe.

Kinda like Pens-Flyers games now.
- Atomic Wedgie

87 to 93 were the golden years in my experience as I was a kid watching those games and it was amazing. The 87 finals made me a flyers fan.

I prefered the 90s Flyers.

Lindros was simply unlike any other player I had ever seen.
- Atomic Wedgie

Lindros was an animal. First superstar to not be protected by the refs.

i could see him being similar to weber, i have been impressed with his shot lately
- mydoglicks

Shea?

I didn't know that physical hockey equated dirty hockey. Thats what the flyers and their fans are proud of. Dirty play is not celebrated by the flyers faithful, thats reserved for eagles fans.
- twotoekenn

Let the record show that I was not the one who brought up Eagles fans.

Lindros = physical hockey

70s Flyers = dirty hockey

I get that you won't ever agree. That's OK. Like I said above, if I was a Flyers fan, I'd worship those two cups, too.

Shea?
- stveshdy

sure

Let the record show that I was not the one who brought up Eagles fans.

Lindros = physical hockey

70s Flyers = dirty hockey

I get that you won't ever agree. That's OK. Like I said above, if I was a Flyers fan, I'd worship those two cups, too.
- Atomic Wedgie

70's Flyers wasn't dirty hockey. They just pushed teams around and they could all play the game. Deadly squad.

Schenn doesn't have to put up points to be a top pairing defenseman. There is no doubt that he has the potential to be a compliment on a top pairing to a #1 defenseman. He can become a physical shut down top pairing defender in this League. It remains to be seen if he does. But he has that potential. And his foot speed, which was way overblown by many Toronto fans, is not going to be an impediment to him reaching that level.
- MJL

20-30 points a year would be plenty for L Schenn, especially if he gets no PP time.