Not condemning him Joe. He's played well this year for this most part. I have gave him props all year. But he has some flaws that he needs to improve upon.

And as you stated, the entire time does as well.
- PLindbergh31

First thing is stop trying to poke check.

First thing is stop trying to poke check.
- MJL

pretty sure after tonight it is commonly known as the pole check

You're right. But it takes more then just good players. Who were the top defenseman for Ottawa that gave the Flyers all they could handle?

Flyers have the personnel to be much better then they are.
- MJL

You have to wonder if they need a coaching change. I'm not a fan of making this type of move but this team isn't getting better. The same issues keep happening that exsisted last year.

Not condemning him Joe. He's played well this year for this most part. I have gave him props all year. But he has some flaws that he needs to improve upon.

And as you stated, the entire time does as well.
- PLindbergh31

Yep I agree on the flaws.

Thinking way down the road.

If Flyers are out of the playoff hunt what can they get for Gagne?

The Hawks have Keith and Seabrooke. Two legit top pairing d-men. The Flyers have no one even in the same stratosphere.
- PLindbergh31

They also have speed throughout their entire lineup. Lots and lots of speed.

We do not.

There are lots of other things the Hawks are doing well right now, but they do play a system that matches their skills and abilities. I don't think the Flyers do.

First thing is stop trying to poke check.
- MJL

Horrendous. That fourth goal made me sick when he went for the poke check again.

Every post, you mention back-checking. There is far more to it then just skating back hard on the back-check. The Hawks are all over other teams all over the ice, because Quenneville demands it.

Did you see Ottawa check the Flyers all over the ice, and make the Flyers fight for every inch of ice? How are they doing that with the lack of talent they have, and the injuries they have? The answer is simple.
- MJL

There is an element you are leaving out.

A coach demands such play definately. However certain players are the way they are for a reason, and there is a reason why some players are better than others. They work harder. That is who they are to begin with.

First thing is stop trying to poke check.
- MJL

Every time Bryz leaves the net it's a fiasco. Brodeuer he's not.

They also have speed throughout their entire lineup. Lots and lots of speed.

We do not.

There are lots of other things the Hawks are doing well right now, but they do play a system that matches their skills and abilities. I don't think the Flyers do.
- BringBack25

For any system to work, you have to play the right way. It all starts with taking care of your own end. It always has, and it always will.

The d-core on this team tonight. How many other teams in the league would be willing to swap theirs with it?

Its a sack of poop, and needs to be overhauled. Holmgren tried to get Weber/Suter/Parise last summer.

This is not the team that was supposed to be on the ice. I dont believe any coach, or different system would fix the core issues of this team. They simply need to be improved, starting with the guys on the ice.

Gervais, Guss, Foster and Lilja wouldnt even sniff the ice for a team like Boston, Chicago, etc.
- flyer_nutter

Losing Pronger had a domino effect. No way to recover from that. Throw in the fact Meszaros can't stay on the ice, and Timonen becoming a an old man in front of our eyes, and this is what you are left with.

If Grossmann is out for a significant period of time, it will probably finish their playoff chances imo.

You have to wonder if they need a coaching change. I'm not a fan of making this type of move but this team isn't getting better. The same issues keep happening that exsisted last year.
- stveshdy

I'm only leaning toward it because its the same old song and dance over and over again when we play teams like the rags. It seems like they just have a counter punch for anything we do.

You're right. But it takes more then just good players. Who were the top defenseman for Ottawa that gave the Flyers all they could handle?

Flyers have the personnel to be much better then they are.
- MJL

This is where me and you differ more than anything.

I believe they can be better, but not much better. Not enough to change a coach mid season and change the identity. I try to be optimistic about the team, but realistic as well.

Realistically I think they had a rats ass chance in hell of winning the cup this season, and I expected them to be a borderline playoff team. That is currently right where they sit.

There is an element you are leaving out.

A coach demands such play definately. However certain players are the way they are for a reason, and there is a reason why some players are better than others. They work harder. That is who they are to begin with.
- flyer_nutter

I'm not leaving that element out at all. The Flyers have the players to be much better then they are.

I know the difference between a structured team game, and a bunch of players playing the wrong way. I don't care how talented you are. That never works.

They also have speed throughout their entire lineup. Lots and lots of speed.

We do not.

There are lots of other things the Hawks are doing well right now, but they do play a system that matches their skills and abilities. I don't think the Flyers do.
- BringBack25

Agreed. Guys like Fedetenko and Knuble would be valets parking cars at the United Center.

Where did this kid Saad come from? The Shaw kid is a stud, and they are playing without Dave Bolland, who outside of Toews is their best all around forward. They are loaded.

I'm only leaning toward it because its the same old song and dance over and over again when we play teams like the rags. It seems like they just have a counter punch for anything we do.
- JoeRussomanno

Yup. I'm just friggin tired of watching the same results. Their too inconsistant in their own zone and I'm sick of watching it.

This is where me and you differ more than anything.

I believe they can be better, but not much better. Not enough to change a coach mid season and change the identity. I try to be optimistic about the team, but realistic as well.

Realistically I think they had a rats ass chance in hell of winning the cup this season, and I expected them to be a borderline playoff team. That is currently right where they sit.
- flyer_nutter

They don't need to change the identity. They just need a Coach to get them to play the right way. Whether that is this Coach, or a new one.

This is about the simple and basic fundamentals of Hockey.

Losing Pronger had a domino effect. No way to recover from that. Throw in the fact Meszaros can't stay on the ice, and Timonen becoming a an old man in front of our eyes, and this is what you are left with.

If Grossmann is out for a significant period of time, it will probably finish their playoff chances imo.
- PLindbergh31

Before this season we all knew for them to make it in Bryzgalov would have to stand tall and if the D got hit with injuries it could be disaster.

Its as if people are suprised.

There is an element you are leaving out.

A coach demands such play definately. However certain players are the way they are for a reason, and there is a reason why some players are better than others. They work harder. That is who they are to begin with.
- flyer_nutter

So who specifically are the players not working hard?

First thing is stop trying to poke check.
- MJL

I think everyone would agree with that. And hopefully that is something Reese relays to him.

Probably not. But Ottawa does allow an enormous amount of scoring chances. I watch almost all of their games. I have a friend who works for their Organization.

Do the Blackhawks play a superior team game to Ottawa? Why is Anderson's save % better than the Hawks goalies?
- PLindbergh31

They do allow a lot of scoring chances, but what they do really well is eliminate second chances. Even the good scoring chances they have guys swarming all over the place.

I think everyone would agree with that. And hopefully that is something Reese relays to him.
- PLindbergh31

At this point in his career it amazes me that he is that bad when going to the poke check. He misses badly and looks horrendous doing it. Bryz has been solid for most of the season but his poke check skills are suspect at best.

They don't need to change the identity. They just need a Coach to get them to play the right way. Whether that is this Coach, or a new one.

This is about the simple and basic fundamentals of Hockey.
- MJL

Exactly.

Basic mistakes and down right being lazy/stupid. Things Briere, Coburn, Kimmo, Talbot, Knuble, Fedetenko, etc have all been making. All season long.

They do allow a lot of scoring chances, but what they do really well is eliminate second chances. Even the good scoring chances they have guys swarming all over the place.
- Jsaquella

Yes. This Mclean is a solid coach. Their injuries have been worse than the Flyers as hard as it is to believe. Their Norris D-man, best forward, and a G who was playing as the best in the NHL. They have stayed competitive. Kudos to their coaching staff.

So who specifically are the players not working hard?
- eayost

Top candidates for this season for guys being lazy and downright stupid?

Coburn, Talbot, Fedetenko, Briere.

Kimmo has been pretty bad, and Schenn/Voracek were horrific to start the season.

Most of the team to be honest expect a few guys.