ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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The Flyers D isn't brutal. Not at all. Defense is a team game. - MJL
I agree, but...
Every team that has won the Cup over, idk, the last 10 years has had that anchor D-man. That bonifide #1.
You still need individual talent along with the team game to win it all, along with some luck.
We saw that with the team that went to the finals in '10, Pronger was a rock who was leaned on in all situations.
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Marc D
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: best smile, 14 without fake tees Joined: 03.28.2008
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He is handicapped to an extent. But even last season when he had better talent on defense, they went 0-6 vs the Rangers. There was no answer to be had.
The trouble with that is, the Flyers have Timonen, Schenn, Coburn, Grossmann as a top 4. Ottawa's top 4 right now: Gonchar, Methot, Gryba, Phillips
The Sens are 5-3-2 since losing Karlsson, who was averaging 27+ minutes a night. That's winning despite a massive roster handicap - Jsaquella
yep the Sens are in every game, 2-1, 3-2.
They are playing a completely different style.
Plus they have gotten exceptional goalie play.
Are you saying that the Flyers top 4 are that much better then those 4 guys from Ottawa?
Cause right now I don't really see that.
Kimmo is not the same guy he was. Coburn is having a bad season.
L Schenn is a pup who has been solid 75% of the time or more, but his mistakes have led to some bad looking goals. Grossmann has been stellar but so has Methot. |
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ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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I didn't think any of the 1st two goals were save able at all. !st goal was 2 on 1 on PP where just like a regular 2 on 1 goalie takes shooter - Dman takes the pass, Bryz had the shooter but Grossman let the pass by. The second goal Callahan was at the side of the net so Bryz had to hug the post and because the Flyers have a tremendous Defence, Callahan just skated around Bryz. I did not see the other 2 goals. Flyers need to overhaul the defence. Coburn needs to go, Gervais, Lilja and Foster should never be in the line up. Homer has done a good job with the team but his cap management has been awful. I would not have signed Timonen for 6 mill. This D just needs to start from scratch starting with young guys like Gustaffson, Schenn and Bourdon. BTW what is going on with Bourdon? I'd get him in the line up unless he is hurt - xShoot4WarAmpsx
If Bryz is proactive on that play and does a sweep with his goalie stick, Cally never turns the corner with the puck on his stick.
Bryz was indecisive on that play and Cally burned him on it. He kinda tried to poke check but didn't commit to it.
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Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Bringing Hexy Back Joined: 06.16.2006
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I agree, but...
Every team that has won the Cup over, idk, the last 10 years has had that anchor D-man. That bonifide #1.
You still need individual talent along with the team game to win it all, along with some luck.
We saw that with the team that went to the finals in '10, Pronger was a rock who was leaned on in all situations. - ggunky
Carolina didn't in 2006. They used a solid and deep corps to cover things. But you need everyone playing good, two way hockey to win without one. |
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xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Hamilton, ON Joined: 06.25.2010
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Then how does Ottawa keep winning with a defense that is far worse on paper? - Jsaquella
Because unlike our D they arent all big bodies who can't pass. Our fast D man are Gusty and Gervais. Ottawa's Dman can win races to the puck, battles for the puck and transition from defence to offence. Flyers can't do anything but win battles and that isn't too often |
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Marc D
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: best smile, 14 without fake tees Joined: 03.28.2008
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Sorry Mark, but I can't agree with that. This Flyers team has more talent then a lot of NHL teams. Many teams are doing far more with less. - MJL
Look, I basically agree with your point about Lavi.
I am just saying it is not all on the coach.
He has his style and is unwilling or unable to change it.
Management did not get him the players for it to work.
They did go balls out and try last summer, so I don't discredit them for that. |
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If Bryz is proactive on that play and does a sweep with his goalie stick, Cally never turns the corner with the puck on his stick.
Bryz was indecisive on that play and Cally burned him on it. He kinda tried to poke check but didn't commit to it. - ggunky
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NickTheKid87
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA Joined: 11.19.2010
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I agree, but...
Every team that has won the Cup over, idk, the last 10 years has had that anchor D-man. That bonifide #1.
You still need individual talent along with the team game to win it all, along with some luck.
We saw that with the team that went to the finals in '10, Pronger was a rock who was leaned on in all situations. - ggunky
This is a fallacy because what you're not taking into account is that the team's with a "bonafide #1" were lacking in other areas.
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ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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Carolina didn't in 2006. They used a solid and deep corps to cover things. But you need everyone playing good, two way hockey to win without one. - Jsaquella
Damn you!
But that team has Brindamour!!!
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Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Bringing Hexy Back Joined: 06.16.2006
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yep the Sens are in every game, 2-1, 3-2.
They are playing a completely different style.
Plus they have gotten exceptional goalie play.
Are you saying that the Flyers top 4 are that much better then those 4 guys from Ottawa?
Cause right now I don't really see that.
Kimmo is not the same guy he was. Coburn is having a bad season.
L Schenn is a pup who has been solid 75% of the time or more, but his mistakes have led to some bad looking goals. Grossmann has been stellar but so has Methot. - Marc D
Grossmann and Methot cancel each other out. Gonchar is a 40 year old, never known for being good in his own end. Gryba's played 9 NHL games. Phillips is a somewhat inconsistent veteran.
On paper, the Flyers group is markedly better. On the ice, the Senators have been better, but of course their whole team plays defense. |
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MJL
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Candyland, PA Joined: 09.20.2007
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I agree, but...
Every team that has won the Cup over, idk, the last 10 years has had that anchor D-man. That bonifide #1.
You still need individual talent along with the team game to win it all, along with some luck.
We saw that with the team that went to the finals in '10, Pronger was a rock who was leaned on in all situations. - ggunky
I'm really not looking at what moves the team needs to become a contender. what I'm looking at is getting this team to play the right way. Can't tell me that this team doesn't have the personel to be a solid playoff team. |
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MJL
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Candyland, PA Joined: 09.20.2007
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Look, I basically agree with your point about Lavi.
I am just saying it is not all on the coach.
He has his style and is unwilling or unable to change it.
Management did not get him the players for it to work.
They did go balls out and try last summer, so I don't discredit them for that. - Marc D
As good as players like Weber and Suter are, they aren't a magic cure. We've seen the team flounder with Pronger in the lineup. What's happening right now, isn't a personel issue in my opinion. |
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ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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I'm really not looking at what moves the team needs to become a contender. what I'm looking at is getting this team to play the right way. Can't tell me that this team doesn't have the personel to be a solid playoff team. - MJL
I think they are in that 6 - 12 spot in the conference.
Parity makes it hard to differentiate the teams. I think a better team defense is needed!
I love Lavi and really loved the idea of the Flyers bringing him in but rite now everything on the ice is a hot mess.
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Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Bringing Hexy Back Joined: 06.16.2006
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Because unlike our D they arent all big bodies who can't pass. Our fast D man are Gusty and Gervais. Ottawa's Dman can win races to the puck, battles for the puck and transition from defence to offence. Flyers can't do anything but win battles and that isn't too often - xShoot4WarAmpsx
Outside of Gonchar, their entire top 4 is big, stay at home types. Phillips, Methot and Gryba are all stay at home types that don't provide much offense or are noted for their puck moving ability. Even Patrick Wiercioch isn't much of a puck mover.
Benoit is a mobile guy, but he's been a career minor league. He's 29 and has played 26 NHL games.
Erik Karlsson would make your point correct, but he's out for the year, and hasn't played the last 10 games. |
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hereticpride
New Jersey Devils |
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Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ Joined: 01.14.2011
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Clement hesitantly agreeing that Briere should be moved if we're out of it. Certainly doesn't think we're out of it yet tho. |
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vejim
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: FL Joined: 07.08.2007
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Then how does Ottawa keep winning with a defense that is far worse on paper? - Jsaquella
true |
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Clement hesitantly agreeing that Briere should be moved if we're out of it. Certainly doesn't think we're out of it yet tho. - hereticpride
briere has been a dissapointment this year...i exepcted more from him this year...He just sits there game after game , "yeah i suck i have to be better"(I dont know how he keeps finding different ways to say that nigh in and out)...Almost as empty as reid saying "I need to put players in a position to win" |
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Marc D
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: best smile, 14 without fake tees Joined: 03.28.2008
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As good as players like Weber and Suter are, they aren't a magic cure. We've seen the team flounder with Pronger in the lineup. What's happening right now, isn't a personel issue in my opinion. - MJL
We are largely of the same opinion on the perils of Lavi's style. But I also think that it is true he doesn't have the right mix of players for his system to work.
Look at their forwards.
A coach with a different D oriented system would have benched Briere a long time ago.
While Briere is the most obvious example, there are a lot of forwards who are much better offensively then defensively on the team. Simmonds, Giroux, Hartnell and others are all guilty at times of poor back checking and floating in the D zone. Giroux has been better of late.
Its not all black and white. I think bad two way play by the forwards has to be held accountable, but they don't have the depth or willingness to bench these forwards.
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phillydentist
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA Joined: 02.20.2013
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I think this year's a wash and any coach would have only moderate success. Fire Lavy would just be par for the course. What I think is important is bringing in someone to teach the young guys defensive responsibility. - NickTheKid87
You mean like the one that was fired right before Lavy was hired? |
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vejim
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: FL Joined: 07.08.2007
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I just hope that Homey starts drafting D for the future needs |
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Marc D
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: best smile, 14 without fake tees Joined: 03.28.2008
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Grossmann and Methot cancel each other out. Gonchar is a 40 year old, never known for being good in his own end. Gryba's played 9 NHL games. Phillips is a somewhat inconsistent veteran.
On paper, the Flyers group is markedly better. On the ice, the Senators have been better, but of course their whole team plays defense. - Jsaquella
I'd say Gonchar and Kimmo are playing at the same level as much as it kills me to write that sentence.
Phillips = Coburn.
Gryba is young, and so is L Schenn.
On paper Philly might be better but its close. Ottawa goalies have outperformed Flyers by a lot. |
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NickTheKid87
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA Joined: 11.19.2010
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You mean like the one that was fired right before Lavy was hired? - phillydentist
I liked Hitch. No coach in the world could have won with that 2006-07 team. When you have Kyle Calder and Geoff Sanderson in your top 6, you know there's an issue. |
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I'd say Gonchar and Kimmo are playing at the same level as much as it kills me to write that sentence.
Phillips = Coburn.
Gryba is young, and so is L Schenn.
On paper Philly might be better but its close. Ottawa goalies have outperformed Flyers by a lot. - Marc D
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ggunky
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: I like cold beverages, NJ Joined: 04.09.2008
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I just hope that Homey starts drafting D for the future needs - vejim
I dont care what they draft, i just want to see them draft kids who turn into NHL players.
Good, consistent drafting builds the talent pool. With a larger talent pool to draw from you can trade from an area of strength to bolster a weak spot. |
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NickTheKid87
Philadelphia Flyers |
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Location: Philadelphia, PA Joined: 11.19.2010
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I'd say Gonchar and Kimmo are playing at the same level as much as it kills me to write that sentence.
Phillips = Coburn.
Gryba is young, and so is L Schenn.
On paper Philly might be better but its close. Ottawa goalies have outperformed Flyers by a lot. - Marc D
Ottawa is also second to last in goals per game this year. They are sacrificing offense to play strong D. Bryz would be putting up numbers like Anderson and Bishop in that system as well. |
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