A lot are blaming Lava for the issues and it may very well be him, but all of injuries aren't helping. With a revolving door on the players it's not easy to get chemistry. So I'd think that some of the issues can be from that. I also wonder how this team can be so flat, is that really the coach's fault? A coach can't teach them desire and fight.

I'm thinking more and more that Lavy's days are over. Can't keep making the rags look like the 80's oilers its (frank)ing disgusting.
- JoeRussomanno

Wait.. you mean they ran roughshod over the Flyers who were without Tim Kerr?

A lot are blaming Lava for the issues and it may very well be him, but all of injuries aren't helping. With a revolving door on the players it's not easy to get chemistry. So I'd think that some of the issues can be from that. I also wonder how this team can be so flat, is that really the coach's fault? A coach can't teach them desire and fight.
- LJF

All this is one thing....but regardless of who is in the lineup they make the same dumb mistakes, play the same stupid hockey.

All this is one thing....but regardless of who is in the lineup they make the same dumb mistakes, play the same stupid hockey.
- MBFlyerfan

There have been a lot less missed passes of late.

/smallblessing

A lot are blaming Lava for the issues and it may very well be him, but all of injuries aren't helping. With a revolving door on the players it's not easy to get chemistry. So I'd think that some of the issues can be from that. I also wonder how this team can be so flat, is that really the coach's fault? A coach can't teach them desire and fight.
- LJF

They have desire and fight, they just make stupid mistakes...over and over.

How is Ottawa doing with the injuries they've had? Going into tonight's game, they're 5 games over 500, missing their top defenseman, best center and top goal scoring winger, not to mention the guy who has been the best goalie this year.

Not blaming Laviolette solely, but he's not doing a good job and the team looks like a poorly coached mess.

They have desire and fight, they just make stupid mistakes...over and over.

How is Ottawa doing with the injuries they've had? Going into tonight's game, they're 5 games over 500, missing their top defenseman, best center and top goal scoring winger, not to mention the guy who has been the best goalie this year.

Not blaming Laviolette solely, but he's not doing a good job and the team looks like a poorly coached mess.
- Jsaquella

Hard hat and lunch pail.

All this is one thing....but regardless of who is in the lineup they make the same dumb mistakes, play the same stupid hockey.
- MBFlyerfan

are the mistakes Lava's fault or the players? Lava is the coach, but it is the players that need to execute. I'd say Lava has lost the team. It's a shame because I think he had done good things since taking over as coach.

are the mistakes Lava's fault or the players? Lava is the coach, but it is the players that need to execute. I'd say Lava has lost the team. It's a shame because I think he had done good things since taking over as coach.
- LJF

Both. Fold the franchise.

They have desire and fight, they just make stupid mistakes...over and over.

How is Ottawa doing with the injuries they've had? Going into tonight's game, they're 5 games over 500, missing their top defenseman, best center and top goal scoring winger, not to mention the guy who has been the best goalie this year.

Not blaming Laviolette solely, but he's not doing a good job and the team looks like a poorly coached mess.
- Jsaquella

I disagree on the desire and fight or maybe more effort. Some guys are there, but not the whole team.

Both. Fold the franchise.


- Flyskippy

btw watch your PMs, sending one your way

I disagree on the desire and fight or maybe more effort. Some guys are there, but not the whole team.
- LJF

Its hard for me to advocate firing a coach.

When I see far too many veteran players taking nights off. Too many poopty d-men that the team is forced to play.

Maybe its foolish, but I will stand by Lava till the end. I believe he is the right coach for the team long term, just needs the off-season to get a better overall mix of players.

I would be more open to the idea if there was someone good out there to replace him. I do not want Paddock or Murray long term. I am tired of seeing coaches show the door because players tune them out.

I understand a lot of the frustration.

However I would just preach patience.

Give Holmgren the off-season to improve the team. Give Lava a few months, and if they still struggle so be it. Then fire him. For now just stay the course of an evaluation year.

More than anything regarding coaching, there are a large number of players that are showing me they shouldnt be here long term. More so than any coach.

I understand a lot of the frustration.

However I would just preach patience.

Give Holmgren the off-season to improve the team. Give Lava a few months, and if they still struggle so be it. Then fire him. For now just stay the course of an evaluation year.

More than anything regarding coaching, there are a large number of players that are showing me they shouldnt be here long term. More so than any coach.
- flyer_nutter

Which players do you think shouldn't be here long term?

I understand a lot of the frustration.

However I would just preach patience.

Give Holmgren the off-season to improve the team. Give Lava a few months, and if they still struggle so be it. Then fire him. For now just stay the course of an evaluation year.

More than anything regarding coaching, there are a large number of players that are showing me they shouldnt be here long term. More so than any coach.
- flyer_nutter

Interesting. Who? Most if not all of the young guys are putting in the effort in my eyes.

Its hard for me to advocate firing a coach.

When I see far too many veteran players taking nights off. Too many poopty d-men that the team is forced to play.

Maybe its foolish, but I will stand by Lava till the end. I believe he is the right coach for the team long term, just needs the off-season to get a better overall mix of players.

I would be more open to the idea if there was someone good out there to replace him. I do not want Paddock or Murray long term. I am tired of seeing coaches show the door because players tune them out.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think anyone wants Paddock or Murray long term. But either especially Murray short term, would be good for this team. If they decide to remove Laviolette.

I understand a lot of the frustration.

However I would just preach patience.

Give Holmgren the off-season to improve the team. Give Lava a few months, and if they still struggle so be it. Then fire him. For now just stay the course of an evaluation year.

More than anything regarding coaching, there are a large number of players that are showing me they shouldnt be here long term. More so than any coach.
- flyer_nutter

Will see what happens. I believe the GM has to take a lot of the blame here also. This team got worse during the offseason.

Interesting. Who? Most if not all of the young guys are putting in the effort in my eyes.
- hereticpride

Primarily I question the long term position of the following guys, on the team:

Knuble, Fedetenko, Briere, Coburn, Talbot, and Timonen is drastically declining.

Throw in the questionable guys like Guss and Gervais, and you have a large amount of the team that has big issues. Every player matters.

I don't think anyone wants Paddock or Murray long term. But either especially Murray short term, would be good for this team. If they decide to remove Laviolette.
- MJL

I dont believe in bringing in a guy knowing you will probably have to replace him sooner or later to win a cup. To bring in a guy for "short term", is short sighted imo.

I see no good replacements out there, and would want a fresh face as it is. No Murray or Paddock especially.

I disagree on the desire and fight or maybe more effort. Some guys are there, but not the whole team.
- LJF

I see effort, but a lot of undisciplined play. Guys forcing things, rather than making a safe play.

They don't play good team defense, because they get to running around way too often, which kills the energy needed to play in the other team's end. I don't see players being put in the best position to succeed. I feel that's, in part, because of Laviolette's attack philosophy.

I think MJL did a good job earlier in the thread with his description of the game last night-tied game going into the third, and rather than be smart and wait fr an opportunity, the Flyers started taking chances.

Next thing you know, Gustafsson makes a bad decision on a pinch, Giroux is slow to pick him up and it's 3-2. They should have been more patient and waited things out.

Will see what happens. I believe the GM has to take a lot of the blame here also. This team got worse during the offseason.
- stveshdy

Definately. Throw in Carle and Pronger into the back end and what do you have.

Hell even put in a healthy Meszaros without the two previously mentioned players and you take away a guy like Gervais who has been horrific.

Holmgren threw them together, without a real identity set in mind imo. He didnt get the team he wanted to in the first place, and in this cluster(frank) of a shortened season I wouldnt be firing the coach half way through. Especially when the team sits exactly where they should imo.

Primarily I question the long term position of the following guys, on the team:

Knuble, Fedetenko, Briere, Coburn, Talbot, and Timonen is drastically declining.

Throw in the questionable guys like Guss and Gervais, and you have a large amount of the team that has big issues. Every player matters.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think these guys need to be worried about long term to be quite honest as I don't see any of them here beyond next year.

Definately. Throw in Carle and Pronger into the back end and what do you have.

Hell even put in a healthy Meszaros without the two previously mentioned players and you take away a guy like Gervais who has been horrific.

Holmgren threw them together, without a real identity set in mind imo. He didnt get the team he wanted to in the first place, and in this cluster(frank) of a shortened season I wouldnt be firing the coach half way through. Especially when the team sits exactly where they should imo.
- flyer_nutter

My only issue with Lavi is sometimes you have to adjust what you do to the skill set of your players.

I see effort, but a lot of undisciplined play. Guys forcing things, rather than making a safe play.

They don't play good team defense, because they get to running around way too often, which kills the energy needed to play in the other team's end. I don't see players being put in the best position to succeed. I feel that's, in part, because of Laviolette's attack philosophy.

I think MJL did a good job earlier in the thread with his description of the game last night-tied game going into the third, and rather than be smart and wait fr an opportunity, the Flyers started taking chances.

Next thing you know, Gustafsson makes a bad decision on a pinch, Giroux is slow to pick him up and it's 3-2. They should have been more patient and waited things out.
- Jsaquella

They do tend to panic against tight checking teams. They panic big time. At the same time it was a guy like Guss that makes that mistake. There is a reason he plays limited minutes.

I think more of what lost them last night was the continous losing of board battles. The Rangers owned them along the wall all night long. It shouldnt have to take a new coach to fix lazyness and a lack of hard work. I dont think it will for what its worth, because a lot of the mistakes are not from the young kids. They have been from veterans all season long.

I don't think these guys need to be worried about long term to be quite honest as I don't see any of them here beyond next year.
- hereticpride

They are however playing right now.

That is what I am getting at. Look at a team like Ottawa, that has far less talent. They win on work ethic. First and foremost.

A coach can only do so much when he is given a lineup where any injury is a huge blow, and to give his team that culture of work ethic. A lot of the time most players simply come with that, or they do not.

This falls on Holmgren and scouting staff imo. The organization needs to better identify players who work hard every night. Its those teams, that show that consistency, that win championships.

Primarily I question the long term position of the following guys, on the team:

Knuble, Fedetenko, Briere, Coburn, Talbot, and Timonen is drastically declining.

Throw in the questionable guys like Guss and Gervais, and you have a large amount of the team that has big issues. Every player matters.
- flyer_nutter

Knuble is 40. Fedetenko is signed to a one year deal. Timonen will probably retire after next Season. So I don't know why you're even mentioning them long term. They're short term players on this team. If not for injuries, Knuble likely wouldn't even be here.
Right now, if they can't trade Briere, he's be a compliance buyout candidate.
Coburn hasn't had a great year, and has been a disappointment overall. But not ready to move on from him.
I'm very disappointed in Talbot for the most part this year. For a veteran, he has made a lot of mistakes. Again last night on the Callahan PP goal he is in the wrong position, losing the backside coverage because he's cheating up ice. But not ready to move on. He's signed to a reasonable deal.
Coburn and Talbot can be much better.