Are you familiar with his play in Phoenix and what system he was in there and how it was executed?
- NickTheKid87

Yes I am and two things.....For one Flyers do not play that style nor will they ever much more offensive talent than in Pheonix. Second, he was absolutely brutal in the playoffs his last season in Pheonix thats why they let him go. You ever seen Mike Smith play in Phoenix? He wasnt nearly as good in other stops Tampa and Dallas I believe. You can look at it glass half full or empty but the fact is he isnt the goaltender Philly thought he would be here. Im not blaming all the teams struggles on him just saying it would be nice if he played like we thought he would. And for the fact his contract isnt nearly where his play is or has been.

Outside special teams, the Flyers are just not that good of a team this year. They have good individual pieces, for the most part, but they have a lot of lesser bits thrown into the pot which are doing very little to help the team. And the better players are mostly young, inconsistent and learning.

Also, if the Flyers are so predictable to the rest of the league, and they've already played the Pens twice this season, why would anyone believe Pitt would start the game with anything other than the strategy they are rumored to have "adjusted" to in the 2nd period?

To me, it's a matter of execution: the Pens did, the Flyers didn't.

The only reason he decided to tear his Achillies and come back far sooner than expect and play far better than expected is because of money! Also, he only wants to collect paychecks and not play so he separated his shoulder!
- NickTheKid87

Excellent use of sarcasm!

Yes I am and two things.....For one Flyers do not play that style nor will they ever much more offensive talent than in Pheonix. Second, he was absolutely brutal in the playoffs his last season in Pheonix thats why they let him go. You ever seen Mike Smith play in Phoenix? He wasnt nearly as good in other stops Tampa and Dallas I believe. You can look at it glass half full or empty but the fact is he isnt the goaltender Philly thought he would be here. Im not blaming all the teams struggles on him just saying it would be nice if he played like we thought he would. And for the fact his contract isnt nearly where his play is or has been.
- flyerfan28

Like our good friend MJL has said, sound defensive play begets offense. The reason the Coyotes couldn't score wasn't because their system killed offense, it was because they didn't have the talent. Compare our roster to any in Phoenix during Bryz's tenure there and tell me which one has more talent. If the Flyers were to play a more defensively responsible way, they'd be much better than those Phoenix teams because they HAVE the offensive players they need.

To say the Flyers will never play more defensively is purely speculation on your part and their is no fact behind that assumption.

Besides, a goalie has to be good to but up a .920 sv % in multiple seasons regardless of the system he's in. Had it not been for Ryan Miller's stellar season in 2009-10, Bryzgalov would be a Vezina Trophy winner. Players that are "just ok" don't challenge for a Vezina multiple times.

Excellent use of sarcasm!
- Flyskippy

Oh and trade Voracek! He has more goals and points than Bobby Ryan and Corey Perry! How are we supposed to complain about not having a first line winger if we do?!

sound defensive play begets offense.
- NickTheKid87

It's also been said that the best Defense is a good Offense.

There are a lot of sayings out in the world.

It's also been said that the best Defense is a good Offense.

There are a lot of sayings out in the world.
- wolfhounds

Technically mine wasn't a saying per-say and the idea of "the best defense is a good offense" applied to hockey would be out gunning everyone like the Penguins have done. The Flyers don't have the team for that anymore.

Technically mine wasn't a saying per-say and the idea of "the best defense is a good offense" applied to hockey would be out gunning everyone like the Penguins have done. The Flyers don't have the team for that anymore.
- NickTheKid87

I know. Neither of those concepts - offense first, or defense first - were born on this hockey board.

I think that's part of the problem, I'm not sure what kind of team the Flyers have at this point outside of a young team.

It's also been said that the best Defense is a good Offense.

There are a lot of sayings out in the world.
- wolfhounds

"There's an old irish saying: 'Don't listen to old Italian sayings.'"

I know. Neither of those concepts - offense first, or defense first - were born on this hockey board.

I think that's part of the problem, I'm not sure what kind of team the Flyers have at this point outside of a young team.
- wolfhounds

They are a strange tweener it seems. Not enough fire power to outscore everyone but not enough defensively responsible players to play a tighter game. I agree with the idea to make the rest of this year a 20 game training camp and just work on developing the young players.

Im not saying that...

Im saying that people believe you either have an offensive system or a defensive system... Its just not the case.. you have to have balance.. I personally believe the best defense is a good forecheck.. apply pressure get in need to out work the other team, but when they escape your forecheck you need to have support. Your forecheckers need to work even harder on getting back to help out than they did to win the puck in the corner.
- jak521

I was not disagreeing with you. I was trying to reinforce your opinion. I agree with you totally.

One of the things I see that is somewhat the GMs fault with this current team is the lack of depth of defense.

Sure a lot of that is injuries. But going into the season he knew Mezsy was coming back from a major achilles injury (which he was able to do, only to hurt his shoulder), that Timmo was bound to break down if pushed to play big minutes and tough situations at some point, that Bourdon was shut down. Grossmann with his knee trouble was also a question mark.

While he made very valiant attempts at getting a replacement for Kimmo (who in reality is the Flyers #1 guy by default) with Weber and Suter, those deals didn't work. OK, I have no problem with that. But he needed to fill the 5-8 D roles with better players.

Its lack of depth I think that has really hurt them with the injuries.
Gusty has promise but really needs his minutes limited. Gervais has been put in a place to play regular minutes. Both of these guys should have very little ice time late in game when they are trying to protect a lead. But Lavi has little choice to role three pairs and can't shorten the bench.

Grossmann is the one guy you'd trust to play more minutes in a tight game, and he was coming off a groin/hip flexor last night.

Coburn who should be there playing in the third period big minutes in a shut down role, has become less reliable this season. When Homer gave Coburn his new deal, he said, Coburn is the kind of player who can skate and retrieve pucks and move the puck out of the D zone, and that is why they like him and re signed him. He has regressed this season. I actually think he was better last night then against the Rags but a bit unlucky on the goal that went off his skate.

Kimmo can't be the guy to play 25 minutes a night anymore. L Schenn at 25 minutes will make a deadly error on average once a night.

So the loss of Meszy, and not having a reliable third pair is killing them. I think Homer should have seen this coming.

Jsaq who I think is very accurate in his assessments says look what NJ has done with their D. Well I would say they have a much deeper group 1-8 then the Flyers have assembled. From what I saw of Harrold who is their #8 guy, he would be playing a #5 position on the Flyers D this season. The fact that NJ is struggling lately has more to do with the loss of Brodeur.

Also I agree that the lack of two way play by the forwards has contributed to them not being able to close out a lead. Briere's defense play has been beat to death.
Last year Lavi could roll Couts and Talbot out there in that role. They haven't performed like that this season. G's line is suited to attack, rather then D.

On the forwards I do blame Lavi's system somewhat here. But the players he has are quite limited.

Their best "defensive specialists" Couts/Talbot/Rusty have been average in shut down role, and the rest of the forwards I would say poor on team defense.

I don't think so buddy he is 23rd in GAA for goalies that have played more than 11 games and his save percentage is even lower among the same goalies, so how can u say he has been the best player for them. I agree the defense has been bad and that is why I said he needs to steal games for us so we can contend and he is not doing this. I am not being ignorant saying he is a professional athlete, Pekka Rinne and Jimmy Howard have played almost the same amount of minutes with defenses that have lost a key piece this year and they show no signs of being tired(in fact Howard had a shutout last night). Bryz needs to play because if he doesnt he is indifferent, distant and does not help the team whatsoever in the dressing room.
- Daceroni

You can say he's been the team's best player simply by watching the games.

Marc D's really long post
- Marc D

No matter how you slice it, the path they are currently on is undesirable.

my point, similar to Bill's, is that bryz has been avg...

We already knew that Ilya Bryzgalov has been largely unable for the last month to make momentum saves against good teams. His season save percentage has now slipped below 90 percent, and that's flat out nowhere near good enough (especially after his strong start in January). Last night, he was shielded in the first period, but was there EVER any confidence that he'd come up with anything but the most routine of saves against that power-packed Pittsburgh lineup? By the same token, did anyone think the change over to Brian Boucher was going to alter the momentum?
- isaiah520

And I disagree that overall, Bryzgalov has been average. And to blindly take what Bill is saying there, is that Bryzgalov has been average, is not reading what he's actually saying there. I've said previously on this thread, that lately Bryzgalov's play is slipping. He's not playing at the level he was playing at previously in the Season. There's reasons for that in my opinion. Not all of it having to do with Bryzgalov.
To just blindly look at a Goalies numbers to rate his level of overall play, isn't taking into account all the factors. And it's ignoring the effect that horrid team defense, bad turnovers and line changes, poor systems play all contributing to numerous high grade chances against, has on a Goalie's numbers.

No matter how you slice it, the path they are currently on is undesirable.
- NickTheKid87

No matter how you slice it, the path they are currently on is undesirable.
- NickTheKid87

mea culpa

The best part of last night's game? Watching Fleury fumble. Man do we light that guy up. I almost feel bad for him.

...
- FlyersGrace

I kept thinking of the beach ball GIF.

What a bizarre thing to say.
- Feanor

reminds me of the time i heard a rags fan telling his buddy how coburn was his most hated player in the league

reminds me of the time i heard a rags fan telling his buddy how coburn was his most hated player in the league
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Hartnell holds that honor for most other team's fans

Seems to be a trend that people on here want to make excuses for Bryz. He just is not playing up to the role flyers brought him in to be especially at his price tag. Good goalies are supposed to make saves when you need him, his play has been average this season minus a few games. You're prettty much getting the same play out of Bryz that you are with Scrivens and Reimer in Toronto and thats the problem. You can blame the defense all you want but above average goaltenders can bail you out. Who on here is comfortable with Bryz on a breakaway or shootout? It is what is boys, Flyers overpaid for Bryz and he isnt what we thought it would be.
- flyerfan28

So you're saying that Bryzgalov hasn't made big saves this Season to bail the team out? To carry them through a period and keep the game scoreles or close, when the Flyers are being drastically outplayed? Because in the games I've watched, that has happened more then I can even recall. In fact he's had to do it more times then not.

mea culpa
- Marc D

I thought you made some good points though. I just forgot what they were because the post was so damn long.

But seriously, you're right. Their depth at D has hurt them big time although I'm happy with Gus' play. The biggest issue I have with it is that Lavy keeps trying to run his offense as if he still has Carle, Pronger and a healthier Timonen.

I was not disagreeing with you. I was trying to reinforce your opinion. I agree with you totally.
- MJL

Lol.. i kinda sensed it, but wasnt sure.

Hartnell holds that honor for most other tema's fans
- Marc D

In the concourse by the 11th Street side escalators last night, I had a guy ask me where I got my Hartnell jersey. He said I had exactly the one that he's wanted for a while. I answered his question (that I got it as a Christmas gift but probably came from River City Sports) and then noticed as he walked away that his hat was a Pens hat.

Please tell me when he is healthy

You do not win with his type of character, all about money for him and is my least favourite flyer, just my opinion.
- flyerdude17

This is by far my favorite post of the year.