A poster here assured me other teams would have paid him 6.5m or 7m for next season, but I don't believe that.
- Feanor

I think I said he would get 6 mil from any other team on a one year deal. I still believe it. I don't know what other option the flyers had. It's only for one more year and he's better than any of the garbage on UFA

I think I said he would get 6 mil from any other team on a one year deal. I still believe it. I don't know what other option the flyers had. It's only for one more year and he's better than any of the garbage on UFA
- Just5

Knowing free agency, he would've gotten that money from somebody in a bad situation defensively.

The flip side to that coin is he's been in the playoffs every year since being hired. Now we can debate whether their chances of winning were good or not during the playoffs. I agree he hasnt made the adjustments but do they really want to fire the guy b/c they underachieved one year?

Whatever the Flyers decide to do I will support.
- stveshdy

It's not just the one year. It's a litany of things. All of these are arguments to why he should be fired:

-Mishandling of the goalies in the 2011 playoffs, by burying Bobrovsky behind Boucher and Leighton, which led to Snider dictum to "Fix" the goalie situation

-Failure to adapt his system despite the lack of personnel needed for it to be at it's most effective

-Continuing troubles in being able to over come tight checking teams that play disciplined hockey.

-A total lack of discipline by his team

-The rarity at which he holds players accountable for their mistakes.

Now, one or two of these things would be something that could be ignored. But taken altogether, it's too much

Add in the 5-17-1 record this season and last vs NJ and NYR and the obvious dawning of the realization of the Penguins that if they just stay disciplined against the Flyers that they'll go through them like a Panzer division against the Polish cavalry in 1939 means that Laviolette has to make major adjustments.

In that regard, he's shown he's unwilling or unable to do so.

The past few games the players have been holding their sticks way to tight. Routine passes with no pressure they are fumbling and having briere on the ice has just been painful to watch.

The flip side to that coin is he's been in the playoffs every year since being hired. Now we can debate whether their chances of winning were good or not during the playoffs. I agree he hasnt made the adjustments but do they really want to fire the guy b/c they underachieved one year?

Whatever the Flyers decide to do I will support.
- stveshdy

I think you have to look at why they're underachieving. I think it's very difficult to play the way Laviolette wants them to play, game in and game out. It can be done, because it has happened. But in my opinion, I don't think they've tuned out the Coach, they are trying to play the way he wants them to. But I don't think the players, especially the veterans, as whole believe in the the way he wants them to play. This is just a gut feeling on my part. People talk about effort, and how the Flyers don't seem to play with full effort all game long. I think some games that has been true, but not for the most part. Take the Pens game. It wasn't a question of a lack of effort. It was a question of a team that naturally with a 4-1 lead, came out more cautious. Only natural. The problem is this team doesn't know how to play that way. Because it isn't taught, practiced or drilled. So there is hesitancy. It has to be so it is done so it is second nature. But that won't happen if it's never done. Look at the Pens, they showed that you can still play agressively in a defensive posture. It's very difficult to just be a 3-2 press forecheck team, all game long, every game. Need to mix in some other strategies such as 1-2-2.

Gagne was my favorite player prior to the trade. I was happy to see him raise the cup last year. BUT...he is way on the downside. He was on a huge scoreless streak before rejoining us. Yes, they are underachieving...no excuse for trying to mail it in after going up 4-1 on the Pens. Same with falling asleep in the 3rd on the Rags. But we are just not as good as some of these other teams this year. We took a step back talent wise. And Gagne is no Jagr...even the 40 year old variety.
- section32

I disagree that Gagne is way on the downside. He can still play the game and can still be effective. We don't need him to be Jagr, so maybe the expectation is the issue. They didn't fall asleep against the Rags, nor did they try and mail it in against the Pens. They were victims of the style and teaching of the head Coach.

The flip side to that coin is he's been in the playoffs every year since being hired. Now we can debate whether their chances of winning were good or not during the playoffs. I agree he hasnt made the adjustments but do they really want to fire the guy b/c they underachieved one year?

Whatever the Flyers decide to do I will support.
- stveshdy

I live in carolina and watched this guy take a 6 seed on a so-so team to the Cup and WIN IT. Something we haven't done in over 35 years. Yes, he is in LOVE with HIS SYSTEM. But once we bought in to it, it was very successful. However, we are lacking personnel on the backend to afford us to be able to play more aggressively up front. I think the hope was that we would get by this year with the youngsters developing and stepping up. That just hasn't happened and the injuries have compounded the problem. You cant make chicken salad out of chicken $hit. And this team has too much of it. No adjustment is going to make that D any better and if you take away the forechecking game and play tighter, we aren't utilizing our youngsters strengths. Then to top it all off...you have some very uninspired play going on at the same time.

I disagree that Gagne is way on the downside. He can still play the game and can still be effective. We don't need him to be Jagr, so maybe the expectation is the issue. They didn't fall asleep against the Rags, nor did they try and mail it in against the Pens. They were victims of the style and teaching of the head Coach.
- MJL

You mean the same style and teaching that got them the 4-1 lead?

The team has talent but defensively (everyone) they are a mess. There is no structure in their own end and it looks like they just skate around not knowing where to be. The coach hasn't change his approach and therefore the results are the same.

It could get ugly today, IMO.
- stveshdy

Boston is my pick to come out of the east. Solid team and I think the flyers feel the brunt of that today. Jack off Edwards homer extraordinaire will be flipping his lid sadly.

I think you have to look at why they're underachieving. I think it's very difficult to play the way Laviolette wants them to play, game in and game out. It can be done, because it has happened. But in my opinion, I don't think they've tuned out the Coach, they are trying to play the way he wants them to. But I don't think the players, especially the veterans, as whole believe in the the way he wants them to play. This is just a gut feeling on my part. People talk about effort, and how the Flyers don't seem to play with full effort all game long. I think some games that has been true, but not for the most part. Take the Pens game. It wasn't a question of a lack of effort. It was a question of a team that naturally with a 4-1 lead, came out more cautious. Only natural. The problem is this team doesn't know how to play that way. Because it isn't taught, practiced or drilled. So there is hesitancy. It has to be so it is done so it is second nature. But that won't happen if it's never done. Look at the Pens, they showed that you can still play agressively in a defensive posture. It's very difficult to just be a 3-2 press forecheck team, all game long, every game. Need to mix in some other strategies such as 1-2-2.
- MJL

Last year against the same Pens the system worked.

The problem is, when they get a lead and back off the throttle, the system they play becomes completely punchless. Its tough to play that way all the time. Laviolette has done a very poor job in adjusting how this team plays in certain situations.
- MBFlyerfan

Yes I agree, the coach has not done a good job adjusting to the players he has.

Even had Homer landed Weber, I think they still struggle this season. Weber has to adjust, and the sophomore slump and Briere issues would have still been here.

I was just posting in response to Jsaq that I think the Flyers do have a team identity, and also that I think they are not that far away from being a good competitive team again.

I live in carolina and watched this guy take a 6 seed on a so-so team to the Cup and WIN IT. Something we haven't done in over 35 years. Yes, he is in LOVE with HIS SYSTEM. But once we bought in to it, it was very successful. However, we are lacking personnel on the backend to afford us to be able to play more aggressively up front. I think the hope was that we would get by this year with the youngsters developing and stepping up. That just hasn't happened and the injuries have compounded the problem. You cant make chicken salad out of chicken $hit. And this team has too much of it. No adjustment is going to make that D any better and if you take away the forechecking game and play tighter, we aren't utilizing our youngsters strengths. Then to top it all off...you have some very uninspired play going on at the same time.
- section32

I disagree with a lot of this. Especially with no adjustment is going to make that D any better. That is completely wrong in my opinion. And you don't have to take away a teams ability to forecheck to play a tighter and smarter defensive game. And teams all over the NHL prove that game in and game out. If the Flyers play better team defense, it will make the young players better. And better utilize their strengths.

I live in carolina and watched this guy take a 6 seed on a so-so team to the Cup and WIN IT. Something we haven't done in over 35 years. Yes, he is in LOVE with HIS SYSTEM. But once we bought in to it, it was very successful. However, we are lacking personnel on the backend to afford us to be able to play more aggressively up front. I think the hope was that we would get by this year with the youngsters developing and stepping up. That just hasn't happened and the injuries have compounded the problem. You cant make chicken salad out of chicken $hit. And this team has too much of it. No adjustment is going to make that D any better and if you take away the forechecking game and play tighter, we aren't utilizing our youngsters strengths. Then to top it all off...you have some very uninspired play going on at the same time.
- section32

Then you saw him miss the playoffs fro three straight years after that Cup win, which indicates that when he lost the good veterans that played a huge role in that Cup win, he had no ability to adapt and adjust to the personnel he had left.

Last year against the same Pens the system worked.
- section32

And why did it work? Because the Pens were willing to play the same undisciplined Hockey. How did it work against the Devils? Maybe we could just see if they can play the Pens in every playoff series. What is the goal?

Last year against the same Pens the system worked.
- section32

And against New Jersey and New York it failed like trying to bring down a fighter jet with a snowball.

You mean the same style and teaching that got them the 4-1 lead?
- section32

A lead that doesn't translate to a win isn't worth much, if anything.

You mean the same style and teaching that got them the 4-1 lead?
- section32

Look at the bounces the Flyers got in that game. Yes, they outplayed the Pens in the first period. Then the Pens adjusted. Then what happened? Flyers had no answer to it. There's a big picture here.

It's not just the one year. It's a litany of things. All of these are arguments to why he should be fired:

-Mishandling of the goalies in the 2011 playoffs, by burying Bobrovsky behind Boucher and Leighton, which led to Snider dictum to "Fix" the goalie situation

-Failure to adapt his system despite the lack of personnel needed for it to be at it's most effective

-Continuing troubles in being able to over come tight checking teams that play disciplined hockey.

-A total lack of discipline by his team

-The rarity at which he holds players accountable for their mistakes.

Now, one or two of these things would be something that could be ignored. But taken altogether, it's too much

Add in the 5-17-1 record this season and last vs NJ and NYR and the obvious dawning of the realization of the Penguins that if they just stay disciplined against the Flyers that they'll go through them like a Panzer division against the Polish cavalry in 1939 means that Laviolette has to make major adjustments.

In that regard, he's shown he's unwilling or unable to do so.
- Jsaquella

I totally understand what your saying. I just don't know if the Flyers organization/brass looks at it the same way. I'm sure we could put a list together of good things that he does for the team also. Every coach has these issues in every city. The next coach that comes in may be better defensively and then people will complain they don't attack much and need to score more. Its a double edge sword. Like I said I will support whatever decision the Flyers make but I think having one down year won't get Lavi fired (my opinion of course). He's been in the playoffs every year since being hired. He took the team to a cup finals (cant discredit that). Will have to wait and see what happens.

I totally understand what your saying. I just don't know if the Flyers organization/brass looks at it the same way. I'm sure we could put a list together of good things that he does for the team also. Every coach has these issues in every city. The next coach that comes in may be better defensively and then people will complain they don't attack much and need to score more. Its a double edge sword. Like I said I will support whatever decision the Flyers make but I think having one down year won't get Lavi fired (my opinion of course). He's been in the playoffs every year since being hired. He took the team to a cup finals (cant discredit that). Will have to wait and see what happens.
- stveshdy

I think that, failure to adjust and not being able to beat NJ or NYR, along with the two public statements from the owner that he wants to see adjustments, will be the end for Laviolette unless he makes those changes.

When Snider makes a public pronouncement, it generally is a shot fired across the bow.

I've been kicking around a lot of different cap/moves scenarios on twitter with some Flyers bloggers I'm chummy with. That idea has been advanced, and also steps they'd need to take to fill the resulting holes.

I'm still against it this summer. I don't want to see Mike Smith with a huge cap hit, and I'm not sold Jimmy Howard can be an elite level goalie-but will get paid like one. I also don't know if a top young goalie would be available without massive overpayment.
- Jsaquella

I think they keep Bryz for one more year and buy him out after next season, Briere will definitely get bought out after this season. The cap issue won't come to a head until 14-15 when new deals for Giroux, Couturier, Schenn and Read kick in.

I agree though that overpaying for Smith or Howard is not a solution.

I went in Carolina's thread and asked for a rundown lavas ending in Carolina...

He was stubborn. He wouldn't put together a shut down line and insisted on running his system. Star players padded their statistics against the Canes on a routine basis. No matter how good your system is you need to be able to match your opponent's lines. The one size fits all does not work. He also frustrated Rutherford on his evaluation of talent. He gave up too quickly on some folks that Rutherford had acquired like Radim Vrbata and did not put them in a position where they could succeed.
- Barbecued Hockey

I think you have to look at why they're underachieving. I think it's very difficult to play the way Laviolette wants them to play, game in and game out. It can be done, because it has happened. But in my opinion, I don't think they've tuned out the Coach, they are trying to play the way he wants them to. But I don't think the players, especially the veterans, as whole believe in the the way he wants them to play. This is just a gut feeling on my part. People talk about effort, and how the Flyers don't seem to play with full effort all game long. I think some games that has been true, but not for the most part. Take the Pens game. It wasn't a question of a lack of effort. It was a question of a team that naturally with a 4-1 lead, came out more cautious. Only natural. The problem is this team doesn't know how to play that way. Because it isn't taught, practiced or drilled. So there is hesitancy. It has to be so it is done so it is second nature. But that won't happen if it's never done. Look at the Pens, they showed that you can still play agressively in a defensive posture. It's very difficult to just be a 3-2 press forecheck team, all game long, every game. Need to mix in some other strategies such as 1-2-2.
- MJL

Honestly, I can't comment on what Lavi does during practice or behind the scenes because I'm not there. It looks like adjustments aren't being made. If the Flyers felt his style wasn't a match then why extend him recently? I'm not sure what direction the organization wants to go.

I think they keep Bryz for one more year and buy him out after next season, Briere will definitely get bought out after this season. The cap issue won't come to a head until 14-15 when new deals for Giroux, Couturier, Schenn and Read kick in.

I agree though that overpaying for Smith or Howard is not a solution.
- BiggE

The state of FA goaltending has me thinking they wait until 2014. But it's the Flyers.

I disagree that Gagne is way on the downside. He can still play the game and can still be effective. We don't need him to be Jagr, so maybe the expectation is the issue. They didn't fall asleep against the Rags, nor did they try and mail it in against the Pens. They were victims of the style and teaching of the head Coach.
- MJL

The only thing I disagree with is blaming the coach for the Pens loss.

The Flyers defense was completely over matched in the 2nd when the Pens turned up the heat.

They could not deal with the Pens forecheck, constantly failed to clear pucks they had on their sticks.

This is because of a lack of talent on D and also a failure of team D. Sure the coach has some responsibility. But guys like Gusty and Gervais were overwhelmed out there. The team this year has some big holes that good teams exploit.

Honestly, I can't comment on what Lavi does during practice or behind the scenes because I'm not there. It looks like adjustments aren't being made. If the Flyers felt his style wasn't a match then why extend him recently? I'm not sure what direction the organization wants to go.
- stveshdy

I'm not sure the Organization knows either. That's part of the problem.