So a coach who has a Cup on his resume is failing to make basic adjustments you can see from your couch. Interesting.
- PLindbergh31

Yes he is. And you don't have to be a Hockey genius to see that it's not being done.

If that is the case, why aren't the players being held accountable? Why is Braydon Coburn leading this team in ice time? Why is Briere playing more minutes than Hartnell, Simmonds & Voracek? Why do we see the same kind of undisciplined play we saw last year?

You seem more than happy to shred players and the GM. The GM tried to get Weber. He tried to get Suter. I don't see the coach making an effort to make changes because the GM couldn't get the gusy he wanted.
- Jsaquella

Wasn't there a game against Winnipeg two weekends ago, where Briere played a total of 8 minutes in the game? Including a shift or two in the third period. I think Briere was held accountable that day.

If the coach was going to start reducing ice time and benching guys for poor play, he wouldn't be able to ice a team.

i noticed a pens fan make a comment last week asking what happened to briere he used to be such a pain in the ass to play against etc
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I guess he has cut back on all his stick penalties. That's all I got right now.

Honestly I think its a combination of not having the talent to execute what he is asking them to do.

Seriously, which defenseman on this team do you have confidence in making the crucial decision to pinch in the offensive blue line and not get burned?

Kimmo used to be the guy you would trust, but more often then not he is getting caught on the wrong side and ends up taking the hook on a break away.

Gusty has the wheels but not the experience in the league, it is a split second decision that makes all the difference.

Schenn, Coburn, and Grossmann I really don't want those guys pinching very much. Even if they keep the puck in, it rarely leads to a scoring chance and often ends up going the other way on an odd man rush.

But that is what Lavi asks of them.

They don't have the right kind of D men to do this and not get burned, especially when the forwards don't cover for their pinches every time.
- Marc D

A: No one

So a coach who has a Cup on his resume is failing to make basic adjustments you can see from your couch. Interesting.
- PLindbergh31

He obviously is a good coach but that cup ring doesn't absolve him from wrong doing. YOu're a cop, you know or I'd think you would from doing investigations that center around allegations, a pattern is sought. Once that is established you move from there, right? With lavy there is an established pattern. Losing consistently to NJ, NY, Boston and now Pittsburgh. Failure to get 60 minutes out of his players. Being constantly ground down by hard forechecking/tight checking teams with discipline. Guys like Talbot who were brought here for defensive prowess seemingly needing a dictionary to look up the words back check and defend.

edit: way I see it. it is 60% coach 40% players. k I'm out later fellas

I guess he has cut back on all his stick penalties. That's all I got right now.
- Marc D

Briere's cut back on most of the effective qualities of his game, sadly.

Wasn't there a game against Winnipeg two weekends ago, where Briere played a total of 8 minutes in the game? Including a shift or two in the third period. I think Briere was held accountable that day.

If the coach was going to start reducing ice time and benching guys for poor play, he wouldn't be able to ice a team.
- PLindbergh31

this is true, and the lack of viable players in the AHL pushing for roster spots is partly due to all the trading of draft picks.

Briere's cut back on most of the effective qualities of his game, sadly.
- tangent_man

Honestly I think its a combination of not having the talent to execute what he is asking them to do.

Seriously, which defenseman on this team do you have confidence in making the crucial decision to pinch in the offensive blue line and not get burned?

Kimmo used to be the guy you would trust, but more often then not he is getting caught on the wrong side and ends up taking the hook on a break away.

Gusty has the wheels but not the experience in the league, it is a split second decision that makes all the difference.

Schenn, Coburn, and Grossmann I really don't want those guys pinching very much. Even if they keep the puck in, it rarely leads to a scoring chance and often ends up going the other way on an odd man rush.

But that is what Lavi asks of them.

They don't have the right kind of D men to do this and not get burned, especially when the forwards don't cover for their pinches every time.
- Marc D

That's the problem I have Mark. It's not really so much a decision. The Coach wants the defenseman to pinch in and gamble on keeping the puck in. He is teaching and telling them to do so. That is an element of his 3-2 press forecheck. Timonen is in his 15th NHL Season. He knows how to read a play. When you see a defenseman constantly doing it as a group, it's not bad decision making. It's a strategy. They don't have the players for it.

Wasn't there a game against Winnipeg two weekends ago, where Briere played a total of 8 minutes in the game? Including a shift or two in the third period. I think Briere was held accountable that day.

If the coach was going to start reducing ice time and benching guys for poor play, he wouldn't be able to ice a team.
- PLindbergh31

I coached high school football and we run the spread offense. The previous four years we had the QB and WR's to run the system to perfection. Last year our QB wasnt very good and we were weak at WR. We as a coaching staff make adjustments and ran the ball more or would throw quick hits/screens instead of throwing the ball downfield more. You have to play to your strengths and limited your weaknesses. Call plays and make adjustments to your personnel.

Now football and hockey are different. Plus you add in adults making millions but the concept is identical.

He obviously is a good coach but that cup ring doesn't absolve him from wrong doing. YOu're a cop, you know or I'd think you would from doing investigations that center around allegations, a pattern is sought. Once that is established you move from there, right? With lavy there is an established pattern. Losing consistently to NJ, NY, Boston and now Pittsburgh. Failure to get 60 minutes out of his players. Being constantly ground down by hard forechecking/tight checking teams with discipline. Guys like Talbot who were brought here for defensive prowess seemingly needing a dictionary to look up the words back check and defend.
- JoeRussomanno

I wouldn't say they lose to Pittsburgh constantly. They beat them in a playoff series last year. They are losing to the teams you mention basically because they aren't as good as those teams. It's that simple. A lot paralysis by analysis being done here.

I'm not totally giving the coach a free pass, he can do a better job, just as everyone else can.

Wasn't there a game against Winnipeg two weekends ago, where Briere played a total of 8 minutes in the game? Including a shift or two in the third period. I think Briere was held accountable that day.

If the coach was going to start reducing ice time and benching guys for poor play, he wouldn't be able to ice a team.
- PLindbergh31

That's an unfortunate good point. But he could have done so much earlier in the Season and nipped it in the bud. It's not getting better, it's getting worse. That's a Coach who can't get a handle on it.

I coached high school football and we run the spread offense. The previous four years we had the QB and WR's to run the system to perfection. Last year our QB wasnt very good and we were weak at WR. We as a coaching staff make adjustments and ran the ball more or would throw quick hits/screens instead of throwing the ball downfield more. You have to play to your strengths and limited your weaknesses. Call plays and make adjustments to your personnel.

Now football and hockey are different. Plus you add in adults making millions but the concept is identical.
- stveshdy

I understand that. I'm pretty sure that the coach is racking his brain trying to figure out a way to get this team to perform better. He knows his job is on the line. There is a chance that the players have quit on Laviolette. Sure looks that way to me. If that is the case there is nothing he can do, and a change must take place.

I understand that. I'm pretty sure that the coach is racking his brain trying to figure out a way to get this team to perform better. He knows his job is on the line. There is a chance that the players have quit on Laviolette. Sure looks that way to me. If that is the case there is nothing he can do, and a change must take place.
- PLindbergh31

I don't think the team has quit on him. They just look lost defensively b/c they can't do whats being asked with the current players. Without no support from the forwards theirs no outlet passes, no support on the walls, no where to go with the puck. They don't have players on the blueline with great mobility to skate the puck up the ice and create.

That's an unfortunate good point. But he could have done so much earlier in the Season and nipped it in the bud. It's not getting better, it's getting worse. That's a Coach who can't get a handle on it.
- MJL

What players have played well majority of the season?

Voracek, Simmonds, L. and B. Schenn, and Giroux. Who else? That's 5 players. All young players, their ice time can be increased, but you still have 3/4 of the roster that isn't playing well that need to get ice time.

It's simple, the players here have to start playing better.

What players have played well majority of the season?

Voracek, Simmonds, L. and B. Schenn, and Giroux. Who else? That's 5 players. All young players, their ice time can be increased, but you still have 3/4 of the roster that isn't playing well that need to get ice time.

It's simple, the players here have to start playing better.
- PLindbergh31

I also agree. I'm not putting all the blame on the coach cause their are players who have done nothing to help the situation.

I don't think the team has quit on him. They just look lost defensively b/c they can't do whats being asked with the current players. Without no support from the forwards theirs no outlet passes, no support on the walls, no where to go with the puck. They don't have players on the blueline with great mobility to skate the puck up the ice and create.
- stveshdy

The GM knows what the coaches system is. It's his job to try and mold the personnel to fit that system. Holmgren has done a miserable job of doing that. That being said it's the coaches job to try and figure out a way to get the most of the personnel he's been given. Laviolette has done poorly in that regard.

The players have played terribly to boot, and the results are what they are. It's a failure on all 3 levels. Management, Coaches, Players.

I don't think the team has quit on him. They just look lost defensively b/c they can't do whats being asked with the current players. Without no support from the forwards theirs no outlet passes, no support on the walls, no where to go with the puck. They don't have players on the blueline with great mobility to skate the puck up the ice and create.
- stveshdy

I agree. They haven't quit, and I don't think it's a lack of effort. They are playing and not getting results. They know they can't play the way he wants them to play. And it's frustrating. When you're doing something that isn't working, it's like working twice as hard. And just simply working harder, isn't the solution. Things have to be done right along with a work ethic behind it.

its not the coach, its the players, we suck period, guys that should step up have not all year, we have a bunch of kids and old as$es, not enough mid-age guys.

What players have played well majority of the season?

Voracek, Simmonds, L. and B. Schenn, and Giroux. Who else? That's 5 players. All young players, their ice time can be increased, but you still have 3/4 of the roster that isn't playing well that need to get ice time.

It's simple, the players here have to start playing better.
- PLindbergh31

You missed the point. In the beginning of the Season, from day 1. Hold players accountable. If a player regardless of who it is, doesn't make an effort on the back check, he sits. Half way through the Season is too late.

And it's not that simple that the players have to start playing better. There is so much more to it.

The GM knows what the coaches system is. It's his job to try and mold the personnel to fit that system. Holmgren has done a miserable job of doing that. That being said it's the coaches job to try and figure out a way to get the most of the personnel he's been given. Laviolette has done poorly in that regard.

The players have played terribly to boot, and the results are what they are. It's a failure on all 3 levels. Management, Coaches, Players.
- PLindbergh31

I think thats a fair statement. I have been all over the GM as well as the coach. The players don't get a pass either b/c they are inconsistant at times.

You missed the point. In the beginning of the Season, from day 1. Hold players accountable. If a player regardless of who it is, doesn't make an effort on the back check, he sits. Half way through the Season is too late.

And it's not that simple that the players have to start playing better. There is so much more to it.
- MJL

You can't start benching guys and reducing their ice time starting in game 1. It's a shortened season, and there wasn't anything close to a full camp to prepare. If guys are making mistakes early it's to be expected. Especially with younger players. You want Couturier, or B. Schenn to be benched early for mistakes and have their confidence shaken? I don't.

The bottom line is coaches get to much credit when teams win, and too much blame when teams lose. This applies especially at the professional level.

its not the coach, its the players, we suck period, guys that should step up have not all year, we have a bunch of kids and old as$es, not enough mid-age guys.
- mydoglicks

What's the mid age number you're talking about?

its not the coach, its the players, we suck period, guys that should step up have not all year, we have a bunch of kids and old as$es, not enough mid-age guys.
- mydoglicks

age dont matter. no one is getting it done.