A Flyer fan in Edmonton...

Penguin fan in Calgary's mortal enemy.

I agree that the Organization needs to identify a course of action and stick to it. But that does not absolve the Coach for his obvious failures this Season.
- MJL

It does not. Lava has done some bad things. I for once however, for one time would love the (frank)ing organization force its players to work hard and stop being so damn streaky first and foremost, before firing a coach.

Lava is far from the only problem here, and I personally dont think he is the biggest problem. I think the biggest stems in management. A lack of structure up there, panicking every year to become the team that just beat you, etc etc... The lack of stucture from the top flows right down into the team.

What identity are the Flyers trying to build exactly? I sure as hell have no idea. Neither do they imo. Find an indentity, and bring in players that fit the mold. Identify guys who work hard every night, because quite honestly, that is what makes the top teams the top teams. Consistency.

Its not the end of the world with this group. There are guys I would ship out, and bring in stronger replacements for. That is the key. I think that would improve the team more than anything to be honest. More than any system.

On the out: Briere, Bryzgalov, Foster, Gervais, Leighton/Boucher, Knuble and Fedetenko.

Just for christs sake, I pray whatever the hell management decides to do, they find an indentity they like, and stick with it for more than a couple of years.
- flyer_nutter

Far from the end, in honesty how many people thought this was a bad hockey team last year, 5th overall in the east is pretty dam good season looking up at the teams ahead the Flyers. There are issues with defense that trickle down to all aspects of the game,solve those and this team will be back in good shape

It does not. Lava has done some bad things. I for once however, for one time would love the (frank)ing organization force its players to work hard and stop being so damn streaky first and foremost, before firing a coach.

Lava is far from the only problem here, and I personally dont think he is the biggest problem. I think the biggest stems in management. A lack of structure up there, panicking every year to become the team that just beat you, etc etc... The lack of stucture from the top flows right down into the team.

What identity are the Flyers trying to build exactly? I sure as hell have no idea. Neither do they imo. Find an indentity, and bring in players that fit the mold. Identify guys who work hard every night, because quite honestly, that is what makes the top teams the top teams. Consistency.
- flyer_nutter

You and I have a difference of opinion. I don't think work ethic is a big issue with this team. If working hard was all it took to be a top team, Ottawa would be one of the top teams this year.

By the time you get to the pro level, if you need to be motivated by your coach game in and game out, then there's an issue with the player/s that need to be addressed.

Did these guys really need to be told that the last three games were important? Did they really need to be directed once up by 3 after the first period against Pittsburgh to continue to play hard, to be reminded how dangerous a team they are? None of us did, and we're on the couch watching on TV every game night.

Has Lava, who has been to the finals, won a SC, suddenly forget how to run a team? How to prepare players. How to motivate? He certainly looks like he cares on the bench.

Or is it the team leaders who need to have their feet held to the fire? Where has Giroux been and what has he done to step up and make his team accountable outside the coach's presence? Timmo? Briere? Hartnell?

Before we build the gallows, it would be best to determine whether this is a systemic issue, a talent issue, a personality issue...
- 77rams

Excellent. Couldn't agree more with every word.

Far from the end, in honesty how many people thought this was a bad hockey team last year, 5th overall in the east is pretty dam good season looking up at the teams ahead the Flyers. There are issues with defense that trickle down to all aspects of the game,solve those and this team will be back in good shape
- FlyerInEdm

Having a d-core that doesnt have to employ 2/3 of Foster, Gervais and Guss all season long would go a long way.

As would having a goaltender that plays like he has shown he can, consistently. Plays like how he is paid to do, on a consistent basis.

The forwards, D, and goaltending are all to blame pretty equally imo. Have been for last 2 seasons. Even longer than that. The biggest issue with this team to me, is quite honestly you never know how the majority of the players will play a given night. They shouldnt need Lava to kiss their ass every game to get them motivated. A timeout every 3rd game before the 3rd period.

A Flyer fan in Edmonton...

Penguin fan in Calgary's mortal enemy.
- canadianpenfan

I loathe you

Will see how this team response tonight.

You and I have a difference of opinion. I don't think work ethic is a big issue with this team. If working hard was all it took to be a top team, Ottawa would be one of the top teams this year.
- MJL

Solid consistent goaltending, hard work and a lack of stupidity has Ottawa looking down on the Flyers right now imo.

After so many of the performances I have seen this season, the feeble stick waving, lazy line changes, lazy penalties, and a lack of mental effort I see effort being a huge issue with this team.

Its cool if we disagree.

I loathe you
- FlyerInEdm

It's a long, long line of people.

You and I have a difference of opinion. I don't think work ethic is a big issue with this team. If working hard was all it took to be a top team, Ottawa would be one of the top teams this year.
- MJL

True.

But the losses would be easier to swallow if we knew it was because of a lack of talent and not a lack of effort. Here, most assume it's from lack of effort and direction.

Maybe they're working hard enough but not smart enough.

Or maybe they're just not talented enough at this point in time.

Solid consistent goaltending, hard work and a lack of stupidity has Ottawa looking down on the Flyers right now imo.

After so many of the performances I have seen this season, the feeble stick waving, lazy line changes, lazy penalties, and a lack of mental effort I see effort being a huge issue with this team.

Its cool if we disagree.
- flyer_nutter

It's all systemic of a lack of Coaching and direction. You can work hard all you want. That work ethic needs to be directed, or all you're doing is swimming upstream. You can swim your ass off, you'll never get there.

True.

But the losses would be easier to swallow if we knew it was because of a lack of talent and not a lack of effort. Here, most assume it's from lack of effort and direction.

Maybe they're working hard enough but not smart enough.

Or maybe they're just not talented enough at this point in time.
- 77rams

It depends on what you're looking at and what the measuring stick is. If were talking about being a Cup contender, they need some more pieces. If were talking about being a solid team that is moving forward in it's growth, and should be a playoff team, in my opinion direction is lacking. And the Coach has not done a good job.

It's all systemic of a lack of Coaching and direction. You can work hard all you want. That work ethic needs to be directed, or all you're doing is swimming upstream.
- MJL

Again, its cool if we dont agree, I dont mind.

Just wondering though, what is the identity management is trying to build in your eyes?

I quite honestly dont think this group would excel under any system. At the same time I dont think management knows what the hell they want to build. Or they panic, and try to be like the team that just beat them, year after year. It breeds inconsistency.

Has player inconsistency, been part of the core problems ever since the Carter/Richards era began?

Direction is definately lacking, but that starts way at the top, and trickles down.

I think we can all agree the blame can be distributed throughout the organization right now and everybody involved needs to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves what they can do better

I think we can all agree the blame can be distributed throughout the organization right now and everybody involved needs to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves what they can do better
- funmaster18

Exactly. If the organization wants to bring in another coach that will preach more consistent play and accountability. Have structure and direction. (I am not saying Lava does not)

If the organization wants to do that, then it better start all the way at the (frank)ing top.

It depends on what you're looking at and what the measuring stick is. If were talking about being a Cup contender, they need some more pieces. If were talking about being a solid team that is moving forward in it's growth, and should be a playoff team, in my opinion direction is lacking. And the Coach has not done a good job.
- MJL

I agree with this but the team as a whole hasn't performed up to par as for as effort goes over the course of the entire season so far. Maybe lately they've been working hard, but there are some players that have yet to turn in good efforts day in and day out

It depends on what you're looking at and what the measuring stick is. If were talking about being a Cup contender, they need some more pieces. If were talking about being a solid team that is moving forward in it's growth, and should be a playoff team, in my opinion direction is lacking. And the Coach has not done a good job.
- MJL

What if the coach gives you a road map giving you excellent directions on how to get from point A to point B, but you decide your own way may be better?

Is it a coach issue or a player issue?

I understand that. I'm pretty sure that the coach is racking his brain trying to figure out a way to get this team to perform better. He knows his job is on the line. There is a chance that the players have quit on Laviolette. Sure looks that way to me. If that is the case there is nothing he can do, and a change must take place.
- PLindbergh31

The idea that Lavi has not or is unable to make adjustments for this team would make him one of the worst coaches in NHL history.

I doubt he tells players to make blind back-handed passes into the center of the ice. I doubt he coaches them to take penalties, the most in the league. I doubt he's instructed Coburn to play with zero confidence. I doubt he's asked Couturier and Talbot to play like they belong in the AHL. I doubt he's given Briere more ice time to prove Briere is unable to produce in the NHL any longer, at least during the regular season. I doubt he's shown Gus how to whiff on shots and passes and how to hold onto the puck until a turnover is nearly inevitable.

I will blame Lavi, however, for putting Briere, Simmonds and B Schenn together on the same line as all 3 are quite horrible defensively. That, or the blending of the 3 makes for a horrible defensive unit. Either way, they are a serious liability, and then you throw our shaky D behind them, you have a line that is just begging to be scored upon.

I think we can all agree the blame can be distributed throughout the organization right now and everybody involved needs to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves what they can do better
- funmaster18

It's only going to get worse if they lose tonight.

What identity are the Flyers trying to build exactly? I sure as hell have no idea. Neither do they imo. Find an indentity, and bring in players that fit the mold. Identify guys who work hard every night, because quite honestly, that is what makes the top teams the top teams. Consistency.
- flyer_nutter

I think the organization as a whole needs a cultural change. There has been way too much stagnation in this club, and what was once a honest mentality (flyers hockey) is now ancient history. The league passed this team, and what it takes to win has changed. They finally caught up to the idea of paying for a goaltender, but now there's a cap, and talent, and salary, needs to be balanced. You need to draft better, because veteran's cost too much now.

They need to learn how to draft other than forwards. They need to invest in player development in defense and goal. They need to stop going "all in" unless the core proves that they are, in fact, one piece away.

I want them to dump whatever they can, and get decent return. This team is not prepared for any kind of run, so mortgaging the future for this year is a waste of time.

Just a thought... Maybe this bad season is a good lesson for the core to learn from? Teach them playoffs are not a given. Rather it be in a 48 game season than a 82 game season. Another thing... How many closed door meetings does this team need? Maybe lava was begging for them to play better so he can keep his job.

True.

But the losses would be easier to swallow if we knew it was because of a lack of talent and not a lack of effort. Here, most assume it's from lack of effort and direction.

Maybe they're working hard enough but not smart enough.

Or maybe they're just not talented enough at this point in time.
- 77rams

There have been times where they were working plenty hard but seemed to have no idea where the other players are on the ice. Or in the case of plays at the blueline that become turnovers, try something low percentage out of desperation rather than skating the puck away from the O-zone to get control and regrouping leading to a turnover. But no one on this team is really comfortable puck handling. are they?

The idea that Lavi has not or is unable to make adjustments for this team would make him one of the worst coaches in NHL history.

I doubt he tells players to make blind back-handed passes into the center of the ice. I doubt he coaches them to take penalties, the most in the league. I doubt he's instructed Coburn to play with zero confidence. I doubt he's asked Couturier and Talbot to play like they belong in the AHL. I doubt he's given Briere more ice time to prove Briere is unable to produce in the NHL any longer, at least during the regular season. I doubt he's shown Gus how to whiff on shots and passes and hold onto the puck until a turnover is nearly inevitable.

I will blame Lavi, however, for putting Briere, Simmonds and B Schenn together on the same line as all 3 are quite horrible defensively. That, or the blending of the 3 makes for a horrible defensive mixture. Either way, they are a serious liability, and then you throw our shaky D behind them and you have a line that is just begging to be scored upon.
- wolfhounds

I do blame him for things. A lack of accountability, but at the same time the Flyers dont have great depth. Still playing a guy like Briere arguably gives the team a better chance to win as opposed to a guy like Rinaldo. I dont know if I always agree with that, but its not batpoop crazy. Especially when there is pressure from management and ownership to continously make the playoffs.

I also blame him for poor goaltender management. Not so much this season but in years past. Bobrovsky wasn't handled right.

Regarding systems, its not as if his scheme has out of nowhere been turned obsolete overnight. Every scheme has strengths and weaknesses, and more than anything requires players that fit the system. I do believe some better adjustments could be made however yes.

I think the organization as a whole needs a cultural change. There has been way too much stagnation in this club, and what was once a honest mentality (flyers hockey) is now ancient history. The league passed this team, and what it takes to win has changed. They finally caught up to the idea of paying for a goaltender, but now there's a cap, and talent, and salary, needs to be balanced. You need to draft better, because veteran's cost too much now.

They need to learn how to draft other than forwards. They need to invest in player development in defense and goal. They need to stop going "all in" unless the core proves that they are, in fact, one piece away.

I want them to dump whatever they can, and get decent return. This team is not prepared for any kind of run, so mortgaging the future for this year is a waste of time.
- the deaninator

+1