Again, its cool if we dont agree, I dont mind.

Just wondering though, what is the identity management is trying to build in your eyes?

I quite honestly dont think this group would excel under any system. At the same time I dont think management knows what the hell they want to build. Or they panic, and try to be like the team that just beat them, year after year. It breeds inconsistency.

Has player inconsistency, been part of the core problems ever since the Carter/Richards era began?

Direction is definately lacking, but that starts way at the top, and trickles down.
- flyer_nutter

This team has all the talent in the World to be a very good team. I couldn't disagree more that this group wouldn't excel under any system. What other system's would you suggest would be a good idea for the Flyers to try?

What if the coach gives you a road map giving you excellent directions on how to get from point A to point B, but you decide your own way may be better?

Is it a coach issue or a player issue?
- 77rams

That would be a player causing the issue. But it's also a Coach issue, because it's his job to correct that.

I think the organization as a whole needs a cultural change. There has been way too much stagnation in this club, and what was once a honest mentality (flyers hockey) is now ancient history. The league passed this team, and what it takes to win has changed. They finally caught up to the idea of paying for a goaltender, but now there's a cap, and talent, and salary, needs to be balanced. You need to draft better, because veteran's cost too much now.

They need to learn how to draft other than forwards. They need to invest in player development in defense and goal. They need to stop going "all in" unless the core proves that they are, in fact, one piece away.

I want them to dump whatever they can, and get decent return. This team is not prepared for any kind of run, so mortgaging the future for this year is a waste of time.
- the deaninator

I am young, and do not know the "glory years", so to speak. I do know that why I became a fan is I believed this organization stood for consistent hard work, and talent that gives its all every night.

That has been greatly lacking. Its not all doom and gloom, but they are larger issues at play here.

The idea that Lavi has not or is unable to make adjustments for this team would make him one of the worst coaches in NHL history.

I doubt he tells players to make blind back-handed passes into the center of the ice. I doubt he coaches them to take penalties, the most in the league. I doubt he's instructed Coburn to play with zero confidence. I doubt he's asked Couturier and Talbot to play like they belong in the AHL. I doubt he's given Briere more ice time to prove Briere is unable to produce in the NHL any longer, at least during the regular season. I doubt he's shown Gus how to whiff on shots and passes and how to hold onto the puck until a turnover is nearly inevitable.

I will blame Lavi, however, for putting Briere, Simmonds and B Schenn together on the same line as all 3 are quite horrible defensively. That, or the blending of the 3 makes for a horrible defensive unit. Either way, they are a serious liability, and then you throw our shaky D behind them, you have a line that is just begging to be scored upon.
- wolfhounds

None of the points you've made have anything to do with Coaching adjustments. But all of those player errors that you describe, it is the Coaches job to correct them.

Just a thought... Maybe this bad season is a good lesson for the core to learn from? Teach them playoffs are not a given. Rather it be in a 48 game season than a 82 game season. Another thing... How many closed door meetings does this team need? Maybe lava was begging for them to play better so he can keep his job.
- SMS4016

Meh. If Lavi gets fired, he likely won't be out of work long. I'm sure it doesn't feel good, but losing your job is part of coaching life.

The idea that Lavi has not or is unable to make adjustments for this team would make him one of the worst coaches in NHL history.

I doubt he tells players to make blind back-handed passes into the center of the ice. I doubt he coaches them to take penalties, the most in the league. I doubt he's instructed Coburn to play with zero confidence. I doubt he's asked Couturier and Talbot to play like they belong in the AHL. I doubt he's given Briere more ice time to prove Briere is unable to produce in the NHL any longer, at least during the regular season. I doubt he's shown Gus how to whiff on shots and passes and hold onto the puck until a turnover is nearly inevitable.

I will blame Lavi, however, for putting Briere, Simmonds and B Schenn together on the same line as all 3 are quite horrible defensively. That, or the blending of the 3 makes for a horrible defensive mixture. Either way, they are a serious liability, and then you throw our shaky D behind them and you have a line that is just begging to be scored upon.
- wolfhounds

Briere is a proven pro who is going through a protracted slump right now for whatever reason.

Perhaps Lava believes the best way to get Danny productive again is to play him. Maybe it's a fluky goal or two that shakes his confidence back to where it should be.

I've always disagreed with constant line changes which seems to be quite common nowadays. To me, it's the worst possible way to get a player out of a funk by constantly shifting his linemates on him. But in Briere's case, maybe Lava's just looking for the right chemistry to snap him out of it.

This team needs a productive Briere to help it succeed.

This team has all the talent in the World to be a very good team. I couldn't disagree more that this group wouldn't excel under any system. What other system's would you suggest would be a good idea for the Flyers to try?
- MJL

To try?

I dont even care what the hell they do to be honest. Find something and stick with it. Talent is all for nothing if the players dont work hard every night. Consistency is lacking.

The panic this organization shows continously needs to be replaced with patience, and a culture they can be proud of.

There have been times where they were working plenty hard but seemed to have no idea where the other players are on the ice. Or in the case of plays at the blueline that become turnovers, try something low percentage out of desperation rather than skating the puck away from the O-zone to get control and regrouping leading to a turnover. But no one on this team is really comfortable puck handling. are they?
- bodiva88

Or maybe the players aren't where they're supposed to be?

To try?

I dont even care what the hell they do to be honest. Find something and stick with it. Talent is all for nothing if the players dont work hard every night. Consistency is lacking.

The panic this organization shows continously needs to be replaced with patience, and a culture they can be proud of.
- flyer_nutter

Okay you don't care, but offer a suggestion. What system do you think the Flyers could play with this current team that could help the situation?

That would be a player causing the issue. But it's also a Coach issue, because it's his job to correct that.
- MJL

How?

To try?

I dont even care what the hell they do to be honest. Find something and stick with it. Talent is all for nothing if the players dont work hard every night. Consistency is lacking.

The panic this organization shows continously needs to be replaced with patience, and a culture they can be proud of.
- flyer_nutter

If Buffalo wins tonight all hell is going to break loose.

None of the points you've made have anything to do with Coaching adjustments. But all of those player errors that you describe, it is the Coaches job to correct them.
- MJL

You mean in-game adjustments?

The assumption being Lavi hasn't tried to correct those, and other, problems?

That would be a player causing the issue. But it's also a Coach issue, because it's his job to correct that.
- MJL

Coburn for example has played under more than 2 coaches in his NHL career. His career is defined by inconsistency.

Hartnell has played for more than 2 coaches in his NHL career, as has Briere, and a number of other players on the team.

A guy like Penner for example has played for how many coaches. Yet still has inconsistency issues. A player is what a player is sometimes. Organization needs to better identity talent that consistently works hard. Its not some magical solution, scouts look for it all the time in the juniors.

Or maybe the players aren't where they're supposed to be?
- 77rams

Okay, maybe they aren't. But here we are half way through the Season and the players still aren't where they're supposed to be. Who does that fall on? Either way, the answer is the same.

Coburn for example has played under more than 2 coaches in his NHL career. His career is defined by inconsistency.

Hartnell has played for more than 2 coaches in his NHL career, as has Briere, and a number of other players on the team.

A guy like Penner for example has played for how many coaches. Yet still has inconsistency issues. A player is what a player is sometimes. Organization needs to better identity talent that consistently works hard. Its not some magical solution, scouts look for it all the time in the juniors.
- flyer_nutter

What team that you know of, is every player on the team consistent from year to year, or game to game?

You mean in-game adjustments?

The assumption being Lavi hasn't tried to correct those, and other, problems?
- wolfhounds

In game, out of game, whatever. Laviolette has made on adjustment this Season in his systems play.

Okay you don't care, but offer a suggestion. What system do you think the Flyers could play with this current team that could help the situation?
- MJL

Its not the point though. I think the issues stem from things much larger than a hockey system. Quite honestly there are a number of systems that have won cups. The players win the game at the end of the day.

They could try the Mighty Ducks Flying V for all I care. Just to give you one however they could even do a 1-2-2?

How?
- 77rams

Quite simple. A player who ignores the Coaches direction and decides to do it his way, simply doesn't play. Doesn't get PP time. Has his ice time reduced, etc.

What team that you know of, is every player on the team consistent from year to year, or game to game?
- MJL

Every team above the Flyers this season has shown more consistency as a group then they have.

Okay, maybe they aren't. But here we are half way through the Season and the players still aren't where they're supposed to be. Who does that fall on? Either way, the answer is the same.
- MJL

On the players who refuse to listen?

What are the options? Bring up somebody from the Phantoms? Trade him for a better player? Shorten your bench?

Quite simple. A player who ignores the Coaches direction and decides to do it his way, simply doesn't play. Doesn't get PP time. Has his ice time reduced, etc.
- MJL

Could that possibly be a challenge when the organization puts extreme pressure to continously make the playoffs year after year.

I dont always agree with it, but I see the reasoning behind playing Briere more than a guy like Rinaldo.

Its not the point though. I think the issues stem from things much larger than a hockey system. Quite honestly there are a number of systems that have won cups. The players win the game at the end of the day.

They could try the Mighty Ducks Flying V for all I care. Just to give you one however they could even do a 1-2-2?
- flyer_nutter

It absolutely is the point. What system do you think could benefit the Flyers. You've talked about the Flyers possibly not having the right people for the way Laviolette wants to play. I'm just asking what system.

I agree, the Flyers should have some 1-2-2 in their systems play.

Briere is a proven pro who is going through a protracted slump right now for whatever reason.

Perhaps Lava believes the best way to get Danny productive again is to play him. Maybe it's a fluky goal or two that shakes his confidence back to where it should be.

I've always disagreed with constant line changes which seems to be quite common nowadays. To me, it's the worst possible way to get a player out of a funk by constantly shifting his linemates on him. But in Briere's case, maybe Lava's just looking for the right chemistry to snap him out of it.

This team needs a productive Briere to help it succeed.
- 77rams

Don't get me wrong, I like Danny and what he brings, but his productivity is way down the last 2 seasons for whatever reason. And he's expensive. And he's not getting any younger.

That being said, I don't doubt he can turn it around, but when and where that happens is up in the air. And I agree about sticking with lines, but I don't think there is any chemistry between Briere, Simmonds and Schenn, and it's time to look for another mix.

Why not Briere, Couts and Gagne? Briere's defensive liability is mitigated, and maybe Couts will find some offensive confidence.

I don't know. But when 3 out of 4 lines are struggling, there's nothing to lose by switching things up.

On the players who refuse to listen?

What are the options? Bring up somebody from the Phantoms? Trade him for a better player? Shorten your bench?
- 77rams

All of the above.

It absolutely is the point. What system do you think could benefit the Flyers. You've talked about the Flyers possibly not having the right people for the way Laviolette wants to play. I'm just asking what system.

I agree, the Flyers should have some 1-2-2 in their systems play.
- MJL

At the end of it all, the issues to me are much larger than a system, or the current coach.

The stem from a lack of direction, identity, patience and structure from the top of the organization.