No guarantee any of those picks turn out to be of the same caliber as weber. I would have loved if they got him.
- funmaster18

They may have still struggled this year, Weber having to adjust, etc... but imagine Weber playing 25+ minutes a night, Kimmo staying fresh by not having to play all the tough minutes. Sigh.

He has been very strong.
- spatso

I'm happy for him.
I think he was injured a lot of his time in Philly, and did not get to his full potential here.
A big glimpse of how good he could be in that Boston series, but never a full season.

Looking at the roster in the years following the Stanley Cup win, the Carolina roster wasn't Stanley Cup quality, but it should have been good enough to make the post season.

That is the case with the Flyers this year. The roster should be good enough, but they are not. They are undisciplined and the pieces are being poorly utilized. A lot of that is on the coach.
- Jsaquella

The roster they won it with isn't what I would call SC quality either. Lavy got a lot out of those guys. But they immediately lost Recchi and Weight and a few others.

I don't think he was asking the question as a proposal but as a hypothetical. If a team trades a guy now, he is bought out by the team that traded for him, could the team that traded him away then sign him to a new deal.
- bodiva88

You're right- I was asking more hypothetical and used Briere as an example.

The roster they won it with isn't what I would call SC quality either. Lavy got a lot out of those guys. But they immediately lost Recchi and Weight and a few others.
- section32

Other then not having that star quality defenseman. That was a pretty deep team.

i was definitely contemplating this yesterday evening.... they really shouldn't be this bad.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

They should be a playoff team, not a top seed, but this should be a team good enough for 8th place, at least.

They should be a playoff team, not a top seed, but this should be a team good enough for 8th place, at least.
- Jsaquella

In order your list of blame

1.
2.
3.

The roster they won it with isn't what I would call SC quality either. Lavy got a lot out of those guys. But they immediately lost Recchi and Weight and a few others.
- section32

That was a pretty deep group they had in the playoffs, though. Staal, Brind'Amour, Cullen, Weight, Recchi, Cole, Stillman, Whitney is a damned solid top 9.

The defense lacked a true stud, but it had 5 guys who were solid top 4 defensemen, who had a good mix of puck moving ability and mobility and physicality and toughness.

Even losing Recchi, Cullen & Weight, they still should have been a playoff team. They weren't.

Other then not having that star quality defenseman. That was a pretty deep team.
- MJL

Only after the deadline. They were a 6 seed.

In order your list of blame

1.
2.
3.
- stveshdy

I equally blame the GM, coach and players. Some of those things can be changed to possibly give immediate results, or at least start the process towards the ultimate result.

Ultimately, I blame the owner, who is the one that sets the agenda to win last year's Stanley Cup. The Flyers chase other teams, rather than setting their own agenda.

That was a pretty deep group they had in the playoffs, though. Staal, Brind'Amour, Cullen, Weight, Recchi, Cole, Stillman, Whitney is a damned solid top 9.

The defense lacked a true stud, but it had 5 guys who were solid top 4 defensemen, who had a good mix of puck moving ability and mobility and physicality and toughness.

Even losing Recchi, Cullen & Weight, they still should have been a playoff team. They weren't.
- Jsaquella

So...Lavi got it done without defense before, must have been the system, right?

Only after the deadline. They were a 6 seed.
- section32

I'd be tap dancing naked on my lawn if this team could be a 6th seed at the TDL after the way the first 28 games or so have gone.


The sad thing is, that's about what this team should be based on talent.

I equally blame the GM, coach and players. Some of those things can be changed to possibly give immediate results, or at least start the process towards the ultimate result.

Ultimately, I blame the owner, who is the one that sets the agenda to win last year's Stanley Cup. The Flyers chase other teams, rather than setting their own agenda.
- Jsaquella

1) Homer- didn't get the horses
2) Lavi- not using the tools given in the correct manner
3) Players- not playing 60 minutes each and every night

$hit rolls down hill. It starts at the top.

I'd be tap dancing naked on my lawn if this team could be a 6th seed at the TDL after the way the first 28 games or so have gone.


The sad thing is, that's about what this team should be based on talent.
- Jsaquella

Won't disagree, but where we do disagree is that I think they aren't as good as last year.

I'd be tap dancing naked on my lawn if this team could be a 6th seed at the TDL after the way the first 28 games or so have gone.


The sad thing is, that's about what this team should be based on talent.
- Jsaquella

No fools gold for me. This team isn't good enough right now. I rather they not make the playoffs and possible deal some players at the deadline.

Rebuild in the offseason.

Lindy Ruff really is a great coach who has squeezed some strong performances out of an average line up. He is an old school guy, a lot like Hitchcock. He really believes in his players when they work for him. Claude Julien is a master at motivating his guys by believing in them.

Does Laviolette believe enough in his guys?
- spatso

If the way he treated Bobrovsky is an indicator, No, he doesn't.

Only after the deadline. They were a 6 seed.
- section32

The Kings were an 8 seed last year. The roster that you have going into the playoffs is what matter most.

In order your list of blame

1.
2.
3.
- stveshdy

1. Coach
2. Injuries
3. Players.

So...Lavi got it done without defense before, must have been the system, right?
- section32

I'd suggest re-reading what I wrote, because you've completely missed any semblance of my point. I will try again.

He didn't have a number one defenseman, he had several good defensemen. Glen Wesley, Oleg Tverdovsky, Bret Hedican and Frank Kaberle were all very solid puck moving defensemen.

He doesn't have that kind of defenseman now. He has guys whose primary ability is as stay at home, physical defensemen. There's not a lot of mobility and transitional ability.

To try and play the same system that worked with Wesley, Tverdovsky, Hedican & Kaberle(or with Timonen, Carle and Pronger) using Coburn, Schenn, Grossmann and Foster isn't going to yield the same results.

The Flyers defense, right now, is very similar to the Devils defense of last season. Slower, more physical guys that are not great s passers. Zidlicky is sort of the Timonen, Volchenkov the Grossmann, Greene the Coburn, etc...

So what Deboer did was to develop his system to fit those kind of defensemen. He stressed disciplined play, and benched guys who didn't conform. Hell, he even sat Ilya Kovalchuk a game or two.

Laviolette is doing the opposite. He's increasing ice time to the veterans who are making the mistakes-Briere plays more minutes than Voracek, Hartnell and Simmonds. Braydon Coburn leads the team in ice time-while continuing to accept the mistakes and not changing the system to minimize the weaknesses of the roster.

That's my issue. He's either not willing to adjust, or he's unable to adjust. This is also manifest when his team faces a good team that plays disciplined hockey. The success against Pittsburgh has come when the Flyers have gotten them to get off their game and playing undisciplined.

But when the Pens have played disciplined hockey and played without losing compsure, they have beaten the Flyers.

No fools gold for me. This team isn't good enough right now. I rather they not make the playoffs and possible deal some players at the deadline.

Rebuild in the offseason.
- stveshdy

It's not fool's gold. It's a very young team that is developing. The rebuild started when they traded Carter and Richards.

It's not fool's gold. It's a very young team that is developing. The rebuild started when they traded Carter and Richards.
- Jsaquella

When I say fools gold I'm talking about making the playoffs this year and thinking you have a serious chance of winning the cup. This team is not ready for that. They have too many holes.

Won't disagree, but where we do disagree is that I think they aren't as good as last year.
- section32

I'm not saying they are as good as last year.

However, just about every team in the division lost key roster pieces.

The Penguins lost Jordan Staal and Zybeneck Michalek. Sutter is a god third line center, but he didn't have Staal past offensive levels. and their defense group is just as shallow as the Flyers.

The Devils lost their team captain and best offensive player in Parise.

The Rangers are really the only team that got better on paper.

The coaches in Pittsburgh and NJ adapted to losing pieces. Laviolette didn't.

What bothers me a lot lately is player positioning in both ends. Yesterday I don't know how many times I saw all 3 flyer forwards bunched up in front of the boston net and as soon as te pick goes to a corner or side boards, they got out numbered or out worked.

It just seems to me there's a lack of understanding by the players on where they should be and how to break out of the zone.

When I say fools gold I'm talking about making the playoffs this year and thinking you have a serious chance of winning the cup. This team is not ready for that. They have too many holes.
- stveshdy

I wouldn't say a 6th seed has a serious chance of winning the Cup. Did LA have a serious chance last year, as an 8 seed that was offensively challenged? Once you are in, it's a matter of getting hot.

They may have still struggled this year, Weber having to adjust, etc... but imagine Weber playing 25+ minutes a night, Kimmo staying fresh by not having to play all the tough minutes. Sigh.
- Marc D

It would be exciting, that's for sure. All this recent Pronger news has made miss his presence all over again. I had moved on but could really use him now..