Holmgren offered $200mm in contracts to the two best free agent defensemen on the market. Outside of clubbing them over the head, not sure what more he could have done.

Perhaps he could have re-signed Carle. Obviously he was looking at an upgrade. The Flyers have been scouting every team in the NHL and have been reportedly talking trade all over the place. I'm sure if Holmgren found a trade that wasn't a massive overpayment, they'd have found another puck mover.

At that point, it's incumbent on the coach to make changes. If he's stull running the system that worked with the 2010 team, then he IS at fault. I don't limit the fault to him by any stretch, but if he's given lemons, he must strive to make lemonade, not coffee.
- Jsaquella

I give Homer kudos for trying, but when you throw out contracts like that, every GM in the league knows what you're doing and where your needs lie. It was painfully obvious then and now, the defensive position. So from now until hell freezes over, Homer will have to overpay for a quality puck moving dman. IMHO Carle is not worth what he got from Tampa, but I also don't feel Timonen is worth the one year deal he just signed either.

I agree wholeheartedly about the unrealistic expectations for this year. I think a lot of people expected players that had breakout years like G, Hartsy, and Talbot, along with the rookie success of Read, Couturier and B. Schenn (limited action) to replicate that. Unfortunately it hasn't happened. They aren't too far away from being a legit contender...a few pieces (dmen), let the young guys develop and it should be fun to watch!
- aantny88

I think if the forwards can be taught defensive responsibility, add a puck mover, maybe move a stay at home guy they'll come out next year and challenge for a division title (if that's what it'll be called with realignment).

I wouldn't be upset, but I'd be disappointed. I'd wait until summer 2014, when there's more feasible UFA candidates.
- Jsaquella

I'd like to see him next year in system that is balanced or at least mentions the word defend in a team meeting. Otherwise yea. I defended him to the hilt last year but this year he should already know the layout etc. he just never quite elevates the team to a win consistently like Bill said in comparison to lehtonen. For that contract he needs to be that type of player, maybe he's overworked I don't know...

because people are saying he wont get bought out....if anything i think he should be the only on that gets bought out this year. When a guy can turn his performance on a dime to excel in the playoffs why cant he do it now when they are in danger of missing them? Sad really. Hes not giving a poop and im tired of having him basically say:

"Im playing like poop i know it and i have to improve" ..... its amazing that he has 82 different ways of saying that.
- Philly1980

I'm saying he won't get bought out because of the way the Franchise is run. I did say I think he'll get traded.

Not that much different from 2007-08 when they overachieved on expectations, setting up for "disappointment" when they couldn't get out of the 1st round in 2009 - mostly because of losses where they shot themselves in the foot.
- Flyskippy

Ol' Glass Foot?

The 2010 team had the personnel to run Laviolette's system the way he wanted (plus a white hot goalie in the ECSF and ECF).

Unfortunately, Holmgren struck out in the offseason and was unable to get a good puck mover for Lavy. Laviolette has not adjusted his system for the roster he was given. He still tries to play as if Timonen is healthy and Pronger & Carle are the first pairing. He can't do that anymore. Good coaches adjust to situations like this and Lavy has not.

I've supported Lavy up until a week or two ago. This isn't a knee jerk reaction from me. I used to defend him to the hilt. I fully expected him to adjust to the new roster as well as the teams like NJ and NYR that gave the Flyers so much trouble last year. He did not so I believe it's time for a change.
- NickTheKid87

Any move they make now is purely reactionary... reactionary to the current standings, reactionary to whom they lost to in the PO's, reactionary to whom they've had trouble beating recently... that's the same kind of reactionary thinking that brought Lavi here in the first place (Briere, Carter, etc need an up-tempo style!) and saw Stevens (we need a teacher for the kids!), Hitchcock (we need a XO's mastermind!), Murray (gotta out-D the Devils!), etc etc.

It's funny how easy it is for us to roll our eyes when other clubs scapegoat their coaches and avoid addressing the more glaring lineup problems (Caps, Boudreau says hi!). The minute it comes to the Flyers, however, the minute adversity hits, it's all about making the easy move again.

schenn and voracek and simmonds are playing better...
- Philly1980

Absolutely! Voracek has been incredible. B. Schenn has already set career highs in assists and points, in a shortened season nonetheless. Simmer is continuing to get better every year and plays hard nose hockey that is a blast to watch!

I give Homer kudos for trying, but when you throw out contracts like that, every GM in the league knows what you're doing and where your needs lie. It was painfully obvious then and now, the defensive position. So from now until hell freezes over, Homer will have to overpay for a quality puck moving dman. IMHO Carle is not worth what he got from Tampa, but I also don't feel Timonen is worth the one year deal he just signed either.
- aantny88

You think the two contract offers alerted the other GMs to the Flyers need on defense? You must have an extremely low opinion of the intelligence of the other 29 GMs in the league.

I give Homer kudos for trying, but when you throw out contracts like that, every GM in the league knows what you're doing and where your needs lie. It was painfully obvious then and now, the defensive position. So from now until hell freezes over, Homer will have to overpay for a quality puck moving dman. IMHO Carle is not worth what he got from Tampa, but I also don't feel Timonen is worth the one year deal he just signed either.
- aantny88

Yes, more reason for Laviolette to make changes, because if you realize that help isn't readily available, and I realize it, then how does a head coach NOT realize it?

Yep. As invisible as he's been, recently he's been invisible because he hasn't been getting a regular shift at even strength.
- bodiva88

Oh cool thanks

You think they don't have a great international school? They do. And the cultural exposure is something lots of ex pat parents think is good for kids.
- bodiva88

I was more thinking about the disruption of starting here, going there, coming back here.

And yes, international exposure is good. My kids have some, both with and without us along.

id rather have 7 million dollars a year then goto yale and make 30k when you graduate.
- Philly1980

Call me when his kids make the NHL.

Any move they make now is purely reactionary... reactionary to the current standings, reactionary to whom they lost to in the PO's, reactionary to whom they've had trouble beating recently... that's the same kind of reactionary thinking that brought Lavi here in the first place (Briere, Carter, etc need an up-tempo style!) and saw Stevens (we need a teacher for the kids!), Hitchcock (we need a XO's mastermind!), Murray (gotta out-D the Devils!), etc etc.

It's funny how easy it is for us to roll our eyes when other clubs scapegoat their coaches and avoid addressing the more glaring lineup problems (Caps, Boudreau says hi!). The minute it comes to the Flyers, however, the minute adversity hits, it's all about making the easy move again.
- Tomahawk

I thought Stevens was brought in to bake moister cakes so Murray wouldn't choke?

Any move they make now is purely reactionary... reactionary to the current standings, reactionary to whom they lost to in the PO's, reactionary to whom they've had trouble beating recently... that's the same kind of reactionary thinking that brought Lavi here in the first place (Briere, Carter, etc need an up-tempo style!) and saw Stevens (we need a teacher for the kids!), Hitchcock (we need a XO's mastermind!), Murray (gotta out-D the Devils!), etc etc.

It's funny how easy it is for us to roll our eyes when other clubs scapegoat their coaches and avoid addressing the more glaring lineup problems (Caps, Boudreau says hi!). The minute it comes to the Flyers, however, the minute adversity hits, it's all about making the easy move again.
- Tomahawk

It's not reactionary at all. It's not working so they need to fix it or put the team in a position to succeed later on.

And I'm not scapegoating Lavy. Inconsistency in all areas, growing pains, Holmgren's failure to get the right pieces, players like G and Briere under-performing also play a part in why the team has struggled. What I am saying about Lavy is that he hasn't showed me why he should still be head coach. He's failed to adjust his system to certain teams, he's failed to tailor his style to the current roster and, quite frankly, I haven't seen any jam whatsoever.

Lavy is a solid coach and a good one with the right team but he no longer has that here. He is no longer the right coach for the team in my eyes.

Ol' Glass Foot?

- NickTheKid87

Heh. If only he were healthier going into the playoffs...

I meant the dumb they exhibited in that series, especially Games 2 & 6. Win them, win the series and the Pens are still tied in Stanley Cups.

Yes, more reason for Laviolette to make changes, because if you realize that help isn't readily available, and I realize it, then how does a head coach NOT realize it?
- Jsaquella

Lavi has a hell of a track record with getting a lot out of some pretty mediocre players. His Carolina clubs weren't high on talent or even mobility, especially on the back end (Timonen >>>> Frank Kaberle), but the attacking style always caused problems for opponents and led to quite a bit of wins. He got the Isles to the PO's every year he was there, for Pete's sake.

Having ideal players in ideal roles was never a necessity for Lavi to succeed. Having players that recklessly jumped headlong into the fray was the only thing he ever required to win. The Flyers, for whatever reason, don't have enough of those kinds of players this year, even though it looks like they should on paper.

That move was my breaking point. As you said earlier (last thread?), that was unfair to BOTH goalies.
- Flyskippy

i could see pulling bryz and then putting him back in, but that's it.

Any move they make now is purely reactionary... reactionary to the current standings, reactionary to whom they lost to in the PO's, reactionary to whom they've had trouble beating recently... that's the same kind of reactionary thinking that brought Lavi here in the first place (Briere, Carter, etc need an up-tempo style!) and saw Stevens (we need a teacher for the kids!), Hitchcock (we need a XO's mastermind!), Murray (gotta out-D the Devils!), etc etc.

It's funny how easy it is for us to roll our eyes when other clubs scapegoat their coaches and avoid addressing the more glaring lineup problems (Caps, Boudreau says hi!). The minute it comes to the Flyers, however, the minute adversity hits, it's all about making the easy move again.
- Tomahawk

Please go back that far for the other 29 teams now and let's compare.

i could see pulling bryz and then putting him back in, but that's it.
- isaiah520

And leave the net empty?!?

Call me when his kids make the NHL.
- Scoob

Please post your home and cell numbers.

Hmm how did I miss that We're talking about briere right?
- JoeRussomanno

Yes sir.

Please post your home and cell numbers.
- Flyskippy

201-867-5309

He has to be deemed healthy by the team/doctors and then he can be bought out.
- NickTheKid87

I wonder if Pronger couldn't get healthy enough in the next year to get cleared to begin practicing and then be bought out by the flyers

Lavi has a hell of a track record with getting a lot out of some pretty mediocre players. His Carolina clubs weren't high on talent or even mobility, especially on the back end (Timonen >>>> Frank Kaberle), but the attacking style always caused problems for opponents and led to quite a bit of wins. He got the Isles to the PO's every year he was there, for Pete's sake.

Having ideal players in ideal roles was never a necessity for Lavi to succeed. Having players that recklessly jumped headlong into the fray was the only thing he ever required to win. The Flyers, for whatever reason, don't have enough of those kinds of players this year, even though it looks like they should on paper.
- Tomahawk

That Carolina team didn't just have Kaberle. They had Hedican, Tverdovsky, Wesley, Hell even Wallin was solid at the first pass and had mobility.

And while he did get to the playoffs twice with the Islanders, he failed to do so for 3 years after winning the Stanley Cup in Carolina.