So inconclusive?
- NickTheKid87

Depends on who you ask...when 63% of the top 30 scorers didn't play in Europe and only 37% did, seems to be a pretty good indicator of it having a negative effect on the players, with few exceptions!

Definitely not black and white here. I know there is no easy solution to what ails this team. Winning a game with a 4-1 lead can be done in two different ways: keep their foot on the gas and continuing scoring goals or clamp down defensively, play a 1-2-2 or 1-4. Either way can be just as effective. The Flyers did neither. I'm sure Lavy prefers option A, but when the players stop playing neither option works.
- aantny88

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Coach says keep attacking, don't sit back, keep the play 200 ft from our net. Players then proceed to hedge on the forecheck, hang back toward their own blueline, and back in all the way to the net. It's human nature to do that, and every team is guilty of that. But Lavi's system can't be played half-way, and that's why it falls apart so spectacularly. When the team is confident and not sitting back, it's pure beauty. When they try to sit back, it's a disaster. So, again, it's up to the players to execute the system properly.

Of course, in the last 5-10 mins of game, you want to adjust to a more conservative system. Lavi does that. But not w/ 2 periods of hockey to go, against the Penguins. That's asking for trouble.

whether the issue is the dmen or the forwards, the flyers have had issues in their own zone for the last few yrs. obvi, they need a puck mover, but the way they struggle seems system related and when they play lockdown teams - even with comparable or less talent- its almost certainly a defeat. blame who you like, but I'm sick of it.
- isaiah520

That's why a calming presence like Pronger was so important. Instead of going back for the puck, pooping you pants and immediately throwing it up the boards, you need a guy who can go out, get the puck, settle it down, and make the smart play. When a guy like Coburn or Gervais goes back for the puck with any kind of pressure, the other team just has to put a defenseman along the boards just inside the blueline and it's a keep. At the point, it's on the wingers to provide an easier outlet instead of busting their butts to get up ice. I think it was in the NYR game, one of the defensemen just threw the puck up the wall hoping for Simmonds. It was wide of him, picked up by the other team, the other Flyers forwards were moving up the ice and were caught, oddman rush, goal. Just an example, but the type of play that happens way too often this year.

think i figured out lavys system


- Philly1980

The orange Hulk is a nice touch

Sign Alexei Yashin?
I know he'd have to clear waivers though.
Sign Tony Hand?
Sign Link Gaetz?

Depends on who you ask...when 63% of the top 30 scorers didn't play in Europe and only 37% did, seems to be a pretty good indicator of it having a negative effect on the players, with few exceptions!
- aantny88

There's definitely diminishing returns to the benefit of having played during the lockout -- yes, you hit the ground running, but eventually when everybody's up to speed, the advantage is gone and you're left with nothing but more wear and tear.

I had to log in just to tell you how funny that is. I'm still laughing.. I like the touch with Briere. hahaha

(Back to contstantly lurking)
- mikel33

Thanks

Depends on who you ask...when 63% of the top 30 scorers didn't play in Europe and only 37% did, seems to be a pretty good indicator of it having a negative effect on the players, with few exceptions!
- aantny88

But then there are the guys who are playing better so it's kind of a wash. However, the guys who are on top (Crosby, Stamkos) are expected to be there.

Malkin has gotten bit by the injury bug and has historically played worse with Crosby in the lineup.

Datsyuk & Zetterberg are at where they were last year in terms of production if not better. Plus the loss of Lidstrom and the offense he created has to be factored in.

Thornton has actually produced more this year than last (so far, although it's tailed off since the start of the season).

Duchene, Tavares are developing like they should be and Semin and Kane are more or less returning to the form they were in the past.

So I'd say inconclusive.

Sign Alexei Yashin?
I know he'd have to clear waivers though.
Sign Tony Hand?
Sign Link Gaetz?
- jmatchett

Two words: Niko Dimitrakos

/schedules Stanley Cup parade

Right it's black and white when the players admit that they sat back, but Hartnell has no clue what he's talking about.
- aantny88

Players aren't going to come out and blame the Coach. Yes, they did sit back. They know with a 4-1 lead they need to play more cautious and gamble less. That is only natural. But they don't know how to play with a lead. The only way they know how is to sit back. But if you play Laviolette's system and style of play and sit back, it won't work. They know if they keep forechecking aggressively, and defenseman keep pinching in, they're going to be trading scoring chances back and forth with Crosby, Malkin, and Neal.
Do you know how the Flyers protect leads under Laviolette? Hope that Bryzgalov stands on his head and saves glorous chance after glorius chance that they're going to give up. Because it's time for him to earn his contract.

Pronger was a huge reason why lavy's system worked. He needs to realize he's gone and there isn't another Pronger out there just waiting to play for the flyers.. His system isn't even the major reason I want lavy gone

The orange Hulk is a nice touch
- BulliesPhan87

heres the defensive system...

Orange hulk well hes hulk...he can stop and smash everything... then outlet a pass hoping to catch briere off sides.

That's why a calming presence like Pronger was so important. Instead of going back for the puck, pooping you pants and immediately throwing it up the boards, you need a guy who can go out, get the puck, settle it down, and make the smart play. When a guy like Coburn or Gervais goes back for the puck with any kind of pressure, the other team just has to put a defenseman along the boards just inside the blueline and it's a keep. At the point, it's on the wingers to provide an easier outlet instead of busting their butts to get up ice. I think it was in the NYR game, one of the defensemen just threw the puck up the wall hoping for Simmonds. It was wide of him, picked up by the other team, the other Flyers forwards were moving up the ice and were caught, oddman rush, goal. Just an example, but the type of play that happens way too often this year.
- jmatchett

hard to argue against this

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Coach says keep attacking, don't sit back, keep the play 200 ft from our net. Players then proceed to hedge on the forecheck, hang back toward their own blueline, and back in all the way to the net. It's human nature to do that, and every team is guilty of that. But Lavi's system can't be played half-way, and that's why it falls apart so spectacularly. When the team is confident and not sitting back, it's pure beauty. When they try to sit back, it's a disaster. So, again, it's up to the players to execute the system properly.

Of course, in the last 5-10 mins of game, you want to adjust to a more conservative system. Lavi does that. But not w/ 2 periods of hockey to go, against the Penguins. That's asking for trouble.
- Tomahawk

Keep the play 200 feet from our net? Which means all 3 Flyer forwards down around the other team's goal line, and defenseman pinch in to keep the puck in the O zone. Which like in the Rangers game, one chip off the boards and NAsh is off on a 2-1. Because the other 4 Flyers on the ice are 200 feet from our net. Sound strategy.
Laviolette does not adjust to a more conservative style, ever! That's the problem. That's why when the Flyers have a lead they spend the majority of time late in games hemmed in their own zone. Instead of dumping the puck in, choking off the neutral zone, and making the other team fight 200 feet through tight checking to get to the net.
And if the Flyers had played like the Pens did in the 3rd period, from the 2nd period on. The game is over.

Players aren't going to come out and blame the Coach. Yes, they did sit back. They know with a 4-1 lead they need to play more cautious and gamble less. That is only natural. But they don't know how to play with a lead. The only way they know how is to sit back. But if you play Laviolette's system and style of play and sit back, it won't work. They know if they keep forechecking aggressively, and defenseman keep pinching in, they're going to be trading scoring chances back and forth with Crosby, Malkin, and Neal.
Do you know how the Flyers protect leads under Laviolette? Hope that Bryzgalov stands on his head and saves glorous chance after glorius chance that they're going to give up. Because it's time for him to earn his contract.
- MJL

I think it's my turn to point one of these out. Beautiful.

That's why a calming presence like Pronger was so important. Instead of going back for the puck, pooping you pants and immediately throwing it up the boards, you need a guy who can go out, get the puck, settle it down, and make the smart play. When a guy like Coburn or Gervais goes back for the puck with any kind of pressure, the other team just has to put a defenseman along the boards just inside the blueline and it's a keep. At the point, it's on the wingers to provide an easier outlet instead of busting their butts to get up ice. I think it was in the NYR game, one of the defensemen just threw the puck up the wall hoping for Simmonds. It was wide of him, picked up by the other team, the other Flyers forwards were moving up the ice and were caught, oddman rush, goal. Just an example, but the type of play that happens way too often this year.
- jmatchett

this reminds me of our defense:

whether the issue is the dmen or the forwards, the flyers have had issues in their own zone for the last few yrs. obvi, they need a puck mover, but the way they struggle seems system related and when they play lockdown teams - even with comparable or less talent- its almost certainly a defeat. blame who you like, but I'm sick of it.
- isaiah520

Kill Kill Kill them all!!!!

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Coach says keep attacking, don't sit back, keep the play 200 ft from our net. Players then proceed to hedge on the forecheck, hang back toward their own blueline, and back in all the way to the net. It's human nature to do that, and every team is guilty of that. But Lavi's system can't be played half-way, and that's why it falls apart so spectacularly. When the team is confident and not sitting back, it's pure beauty. When they try to sit back, it's a disaster. So, again, it's up to the players to execute the system properly.

Of course, in the last 5-10 mins of game, you want to adjust to a more conservative system. Lavi does that. But not w/ 2 periods of hockey to go, against the Penguins. That's asking for trouble.
- Tomahawk

It is also incumbent on the coach to teach his players to play his system properly. By your own words I deduce that he has not. Whether they are dumb players or he is a great coach it matters not, he's either not getting them to play right or they are and its not working, thus he needs to go.

"I cover the Dallas Stars as well as the Flyers, and I can most assuredly tell you that the Dallas team defense is every bit as prone to horrific breakdowns as the Flyers, arguably even more so. Yet somehow Kari Lehtonen has still managed to be one of the top goaltenders in the NHL over the last few years, including a 2.23 GAA and .929 save percentage this year."


Thank you Bill! What i have been trying to get people to understand lol. Can only blame the D for so much and a good goalie should be able to bail you out every now and then.

"I cover the Dallas Stars as well as the Flyers, and I can most assuredly tell you that the Dallas team defense is every bit as prone to horrific breakdowns as the Flyers, arguably even more so. Yet somehow Kari Lehtonen has still managed to be one of the top goaltenders in the NHL over the last few years, including a 2.23 GAA and .929 save percentage this year."


Thank you Bill! What i have been trying to get people to understand lol. Can only blame the D for so much and a good goalie should be able to bail you out every now and then.
- flyerfan28

what he didnt say is that lehtonen played 600 minutes less thats a full ten games less.

"I cover the Dallas Stars as well as the Flyers, and I can most assuredly tell you that the Dallas team defense is every bit as prone to horrific breakdowns as the Flyers, arguably even more so. Yet somehow Kari Lehtonen has still managed to be one of the top goaltenders in the NHL over the last few years, including a 2.23 GAA and .929 save percentage this year."


Thank you Bill! What i have been trying to get people to understand lol. Can only blame the D for so much and a good goalie should be able to bail you out every now and then.
- flyerfan28

Would "now and then" constitute...say....the first half of the games this year?

Would "now and then" constitute...say....the first half of the games this year?
- shekkie

Absolutely, Bryz was on his game early but the fact is he is not. He was the same last season, very inconsistent even with Bob getting some games in.

Kill Kill Kill them all!!!!
- JoeRussomanno

so that's where our dmen have been

"I cover the Dallas Stars as well as the Flyers, and I can most assuredly tell you that the Dallas team defense is every bit as prone to horrific breakdowns as the Flyers, arguably even more so. Yet somehow Kari Lehtonen has still managed to be one of the top goaltenders in the NHL over the last few years, including a 2.23 GAA and .929 save percentage this year."


Thank you Bill! What i have been trying to get people to understand lol. Can only blame the D for so much and a good goalie should be able to bail you out every now and then.
- flyerfan28

unpossible

He's the most adept head coach we've had since Hitch. Maybe, if there was a guy like Bylsma, DeBoer or Babcock out there to be hired, I'd be more open to a change to jolt the team... but who are they likely to hand the team over to if they got rid of Lavi? Berube? Murray? Ruff? Common. Ted Nolan's (always) out there, I guess.
- Tomahawk

Dude seriously? So the fact that he's "more adept" than Stevens is some sort of hallmark of achievement? Give me a break. Talk about damning with faint praise...doesn't get much worse than saying "well, he's better than Stevens".

That's the rough equivalent of saying "Well, my kid's not an axe murderer, so he's not a bad kid". There should be a higher standard.