I listened to Pierre interview David Clarkson right before the puck drop.
Pierre asked why they have had such good success against the Flyers the last two seasons.

Clarkson initially said the usual BS about what a great team the Flyers are, etc.

Then he smiled and said, we stick to our system against these guys, and it works, or something close to it. His eyes lit up. He was beaming with confidence.

They know that if they play their game, they own the Flyers and have complete confidence in the outcome.

A regular poster in here said a day or two ago that even though the Devils have been slipping with Moose in goal, playing the Flyers would be a complete tonic for them. he was so right.

Before 90 seconds had passed in the game the Flyers gave up their first odd man rush.

So predictable, even the opposition players know what is going to happen.

There's plenty of talent, but it's a bad mix of personnel and style of play.

Trading guys like Coburn and Meszaros -- as suggested by others -- will only set this team back even further. No panic moves. Just find the right coach, or style of play, and continue to mold the roster. Without another major overhaul of bodies.
- bradleyc4

Nice "Voice of Reason" post.

I listened to Pierre interview David Clarkson right before the puck drop.
Pierre asked why they have had such good success against the Flyers the last two seasons.

Clarkson initially said the usual BS about what a great team the Flyers are, etc.

Then he smiled and said, we stick to our system against these guys, and it works, or something close to it. His eyes lit up. He was beaming with confidence.

They know that if they play their game, they own the Flyers and have complete confidence in the outcome.

A regular poster in here said a day or two ago that even though the Devils have been slipping with Moose in goal, playing the Flyers would be a complete tonic for them. he was so right.

Before 90 seconds had passed in the game the Flyers gave up their first odd man rush.

So predictable, even the opposition players know what is going to happen.
- Marc D

I know the EXACT quote you're talking about. I think the poster also said something about how Hedberg would play Vezina-like, and he did...

AHHHHHHHH!!!!!

true but at 6 mill?
- Philly1980

There is nobody else available that will bring what he does for any less. In fact, to "replace" him you have to pay more for someone that would do less.

Look at Matt Carle's situation....everyone thought we could have/should have signed him for less when we had the chance. But the Flyers waited because they were trying for the home run offer sheet or FA signing. That didn't work out, and once the market price was established, we got out-bid for Carle.

So now we want to repeat that same scenario with Kimmo? Wait it out and see if we can get him for less, or get someone better for similar money? I see this as the team learning their lesson from the Carle situation, and locking up a valuable commodity before some other idiot GM offers Hainsey or Visnovsky $6M+ a season and we have to pay even more for Kimmo or lose him entirely.

You can't have it both ways people...

The solution is easy. Develop a plan, stick to that plan. Don't change it in two years when a team uses something different than NJ to eliminate you in the playoffs.

The Flyers spend too much time trying to win last year's Stanley Cup, have been for years.
- Jsaquella

Nothing identifies a teams weakness more than the playoffs.

Are you saying after we're eliminated and that weakness is exposed we should not address it and instead keep to the plan that they've laid out?

If you're saying they make poor decisions (over react) in addressing those problems than okay, I'm with you.

After the Cup run they were obviously shallow on D and I thought they did a decent job taking care of that. The next season there appeared to be a weakness in goal and they threw the bank at Bryzgalof and discarded Bobrovsky. I thought that was a mistake/over reaction.

I thought the Richards/Carter thing was a personnel decision based on met expectations vs. character.

They'd be better on D, but the overall team defense would still be abysmal. Don't get me wrong, I'd love Weber on this team but I don't think he alone would be able to solve all the other issues.
- Scoob

Weber might make a bigger difference if he lined the forwards up and slam dunked their heads into the boards each practice. Or after each game where they left him holding the bag on another 2 on 1 breakaway...

I texted a friend last night that apparenlty our team is full of junkies and breakaways are the current designer drug of the season....

Pulling my hair out today. I get in the truck to come to work, Bryzgalov is the first word I hear on WIP. Get into work and guys start showing up talking about the game and Bryzgalov is the first thing I hear. Radio host changes and Bryzgalov is the first thing mentioned.

I have to give thanks for the HB community it keeps a man sane, at times.
- shekkie

I have a brand new boss. Apparently his son is a huge Flyers fan. So I brought it up and I got the whole Bryz sucks mantra from him. I had to smile and grit my teeth. And here I thought it'd give me brownie points but it just left me wanting to punch him in the face.... Sigh...

Nothing identifies a teams weakness more than the playoffs.

Are you saying after we're eliminated and that weakness is exposed we should not address it and instead keep to the plan that they've laid out?

If you're saying they make poor decisions (over react) in addressing those problems than okay, I'm with you.

After the Cup run they were obviously shallow on D and I thought they did a decent job taking care of that. The next season there appeared to be a weakness in goal and they threw the bank at Bryzgalof and discarded Bobrovsky. I thought that was a mistake/over reaction.

I thought the Richards/Carter thing was a personnel decision based on met expectations vs. character.
- mayorofangrytown

Having and addressing a weakness is different than changing philosophies every few years. In the late 1990's and early 2000's they tried to out-Devil New Jersey. Then, after the lockout, they tried to be the Sabres. Now after losing to Boston and New Jersey, they seems to want to be more like those teams.

There's no patience. It seems like they're going in 8 different directions at once.

I have come around to the same opinion that most of you have reached, its time for a coaching change.

I really hate this as I admire Lavi and firing and changing things is a sign of failure on the entire organization. Coach is the easiest to fire, and warrants it right now.
It has to happen, no doubt. Failure to adapt his system is so glaring right now.

Homer is not guilt free.

He needs to be much better at managing the cap, stop trading away picks, and shorten and lessen the $ amount of the contracts he negotiates.

If you want a list, not knowing that Pronger would be an over 35 year old deal.

Bryz signing. OK with the player, but the dollars and years were too high considering what the market was.

I think he overpaid with $ and length of deal when re upping Hartnell last year.

I wish he kept the option open on Kimmo. I'm fine with him coming back 1 yr at 3-4M.
Also at this point I would to have the option of trading him to a cup contender.
A guy like him could have gotten a late first round pick possibly.

Better depth guys for the 6th/7th defenseman. This has been horrible for them for years and was a real factor in the loss to the Blackhawks.

And who exactly has told you that you were wrong or disagreed with you on the Flyers need for a puck moving two way defenseman?

I asked you about what Plan B was. And I stated that I disagree with your comment that using Pronger as an excuse was "weak". So what are you talking about?
- MJL

practically everyone. was told we needed to wait to see how the new plyrs looked...no rush, we have time, etc. hence, the point about using the pronger injury excuse is weak because homer was remaking his team, had a wealth of assets, a window of opp and didn't do what he needed to do. i put that on the GM and where this team is at is part of a devolution that takes root in personnel decisions.

yes, lavi has earned the lions share this yr, but that's after an erosion of the talent base/ mix. now they will have to overpay for a d man w/ neg leverage.

Please schedule time for rearranging the chairs in the locker room.
- Scoob

That might require a workout... I assume they are bolted to the floor to avoid angry athlete syndrome...

Do you think the current team has enough talent in it's lineup to be a playoff team. And to be a competitive team game in and game out?
- MJL

I do, when they are healthy. However they have no depth on D or a backup goalie.
I still feel though, that if they were playing a D first system, they could compete on a regular basis. Are they a cup threat? No, but they should have enough talent, that if combined with the right system they should finish in the top 8. I feel their current talent is certainly comparable to that of Ottawa, Toronto and NJ and all 3 of those teams look like they will make the playoffs.

I have come around to the same opinion that most of you have reached, its time for a coaching change.

I really hate this as I admire Lavi and firing and changing things is a sign of failure on the entire organization. Coach is the easiest to fire, and warrants it right now.
It has to happen, no doubt. Failure to adapt his system is so glaring right now.

Homer is not guilt free.

He needs to be much better at managing the cap, stop trading away picks, and shorten and lessen the $ amount of the contracts he negotiates.

If you want a list, not knowing that Pronger would be an over 35 year old deal.

Bryz signing. OK with the player, but the dollars and years were too high considering what the market was.

I think he overpaid with $ and length of deal when re upping Hartnell last year.

I wish he kept the option open on Kimmo. I'm fine with him coming back 1 yr at 3-4M.
Also at this point I would to have the option of trading him to a cup contender.
A guy like him could have gotten a late first round pick possibly.

Better depth guys for the 6th/7th defenseman. This has been horrible for them for years and was a real factor in the loss to the Blackhawks.
- Marc D

The Bryz thing was more Snider via Holmgren than it was Holmgren. Also, I don't think they could have re-signed Hartnell or Timonen for less.

Also, I agree that a lot of the time it's more convenient to fire the coach regardless of how the team is being coached/built (i.e. Washington fire Boudreau) but in this case I think Lavy really does deserve to lose his job. He hasn't performed it well at all. The players are to blame as well to an extent (some more than others) but for the most part I think Lavy has failed.

At this point though, I hope they don't make huge changes because as much as I don't want to admit it, I don't think they will anything to rectify this season. Unless we can go on a tear, we're toast. Sucks for Lavi, I partially don't blame him, as this team just doesn't have the mix he needs to execute his system to its full potential.

I have come around to the same opinion that most of you have reached, its time for a coaching change.

I really hate this as I admire Lavi and firing and changing things is a sign of failure on the entire organization. Coach is the easiest to fire, and warrants it right now.
It has to happen, no doubt. Failure to adapt his system is so glaring right now.

Homer is not guilt free.

He needs to be much better at managing the cap, stop trading away picks, and shorten and lessen the $ amount of the contracts he negotiates.

If you want a list, not knowing that Pronger would be an over 35 year old deal.

Bryz signing. OK with the player, but the dollars and years were too high considering what the market was.

I think he overpaid with $ and length of deal when re upping Hartnell last year.

I wish he kept the option open on Kimmo. I'm fine with him coming back 1 yr at 3-4M.
Also at this point I would to have the option of trading him to a cup contender.
A guy like him could have gotten a late first round pick possibly.

Better depth guys for the 6th/7th defenseman. This has been horrible for them for years and was a real factor in the loss to the Blackhawks.
- Marc D

I agree with everything.

I want to add that Holmgren needs to stop bidding against himself. He thinks he's being pro-active by jumping the gun but it has backfired when he's created a market that doesn't exist. No other team was THAT interested in Bryzgalov.

I have come around to the same opinion that most of you have reached, its time for a coaching change.

I really hate this as I admire Lavi and firing and changing things is a sign of failure on the entire organization. Coach is the easiest to fire, and warrants it right now.
It has to happen, no doubt. Failure to adapt his system is so glaring right now.

Homer is not guilt free.

He needs to be much better at managing the cap, stop trading away picks, and shorten and lessen the $ amount of the contracts he negotiates.

If you want a list, not knowing that Pronger would be an over 35 year old deal.

Bryz signing. OK with the player, but the dollars and years were too high considering what the market was.

I think he overpaid with $ and length of deal when re upping Hartnell last year.

I wish he kept the option open on Kimmo. I'm fine with him coming back 1 yr at 3-4M.
Also at this point I would to have the option of trading him to a cup contender.
A guy like him could have gotten a late first round pick possibly.

Better depth guys for the 6th/7th defenseman. This has been horrible for them for years and was a real factor in the loss to the Blackhawks.
- Marc D

And guess what. Having Matt Carle wouldn't turn this team around. And you know what the current conversation would be. Holmgren screwed up and paid Carle too much, and he would be added to the scapegoat list. As sure as the Sun comes up.
- MJL

True

At this point though, I hope they don't make huge changes because as much as I don't want to admit it, I don't think they will anything to rectify this season. Unless we can go on a tear, we're toast. Sucks for Lavi, I partially don't blame him, as this team just doesn't have the mix he needs to execute his system to its full potential.
- Flyers_V88

It doesn't, which has me wondering why he's trying to run that system in spite of this fact.

practically everyone. was told we needed to wait to see how the new plyrs looked...no rush, we have time, etc. hence, the point about using the pronger injury excuse is weak because homer was remaking his team, had a wealth of assets, a window of opp and didn't do what he needed to do. i put that on the GM and where this team is at is part of a devolution that takes root in personnel decisions.

yes, lavi has earned the lions share this yr, but that's after an erosion of the talent base/ mix. now they will have to overpay for a d man w/ neg leverage.
- isaiah520

I think you have a point, there has been a need to look for a replacement for Kimmo for the future for a while.

I would guess that Homer tried to get a defenseman in the Carter and or Richards deal.
I think he had no luck getting a player he wanted back and took the best deal he could.

Also I think he probably tried to maximize the JVR trade and likely did the best he could.
No team is moving young top two way defenseman in trades

Look at what the Gologoski deal cost... James Neal.

Having and addressing a weakness is different than changing philosophies every few years. In the late 1990's and early 2000's they tried to out-Devil New Jersey. Then, after the lockout, they tried to be the Sabres. Now after losing to Boston and New Jersey, they seems to want to be more like those teams.

There's no patience. It seems like they're going in 8 different directions at once.
- Jsaquella

There is no easy fix.. but the chameleon act that they put on is a tired one. Instead, I would love for them to find their own identity.. establish it, and build off of it. Ok, so we have a great core group of young forwards who are fast and pretty feisty.. They are not all world defensive forwards, but they play a decent enough two way game.. or at least have shown capable of doing that. Thats what we need to build off of.. Let these guys go toe to toe with other teams, but in a fashion that wont have them exposed every shift.

Our defense is older and slower... and to be honest, there is no immediate fix available. So what do we need to do to protect them? Play a smarter game.. stop chasing the game so much.

It doesn't, which has me wondering why he's trying to run that system in spite of this fact.
- Jsaquella

Like we've said over and over, how is it that we see it here, on HockeyBuzz, and the national media sees it and scouts see it but the team itself either doesn't see it or refuses to change. It blows my mind.

I think you have a point, there has been a need to look for a replacement for Kimmo for the future for a while.

I would guess that Homer tried to get a defenseman in the Carter and or Richards deal.
I think he had no luck getting a player he wanted back and took the best deal he could.

Also I think he probably tried to maximize the JVR trade and likely did the best he could.
No team is moving young top two way defenseman in trades

Look at what the Gologoski deal cost... James Neal.
- Marc D

AND Niskanen.. a former first round d-man who plays a pretty solid game in his own right.

I think they'd be much better off. If they had Weber, they'd have a fantastic, 25-30 minute a night guy who does every thing well. Weber also brings a presence to the table that is missing with the loss of Pronger.
- Jsaquella

Absolutely, add Weber to this roster and EVERYTHING changes. First off, JVR is most likely traded for a 1st rather than a player, cause of Weber's cap hit. Your top pair is most likely Weber/Timonen, with Coburn/Grossman a solid #2. Even when Mez was injured, you still could have spotted your 5 and 6 guys cause Weber can eat up huge minutes. With Mez healthy, your number 6 would probably only need to play 6-8 minutes a night. Finally, even the 2nd team pp unit would improve, as Weber would anchor the 1st unit and allow Kimmo to move down to the 2nd.

Oh well!

The Bryz thing was more Snider via Holmgren than it was Holmgren. Also, I don't think they could have re-signed Hartnell or Timonen for less.

...
- NickTheKid87

This all could be true, but the Flyers seem to overpay in a lot of the signings.

Look at Max Talbot.
Last year the deal looked sweet.
But 1.75M is a ton for a fourth line grinder, which in reality is what he is.
If he was another Lappy, maybe.
But another (maybe slight) overpayment.

I think you have a point, there has been a need to look for a replacement for Kimmo for the future for a while.

I would guess that Homer tried to get a defenseman in the Carter and or Richards deal.
I think he had no luck getting a player he wanted back and took the best deal he could.

Also I think he probably tried to maximize the JVR trade and likely did the best he could.
No team is moving young top two way defenseman in trades

Look at what the Gologoski deal cost... James Neal.
- Marc D

and Eric Johnson...and shattenkirk might end up the better plyr

homer has to find a way to get it done or draft hamilton instead of couts. and that's not a knock on couts.