And how did they go about becoming Buffalo other than realizing Buffalo was drafting and developing players better than them and poaching some of their staff?
- mayorofangrytown

By becoming smaller and faster, especially up front.

How'd that developing thing work out, BTW?

It seems like they're going in 8 different directions at once.
- Jsaquella

Not unlike their on-ice performance last night.

The Flyers don't pressure the puck in the neutral zone, and there aren't layers to their checking all over the ice, to create those turnovers, and create odd man rushes. They have a deep forecheck, if the opposition beats that easily, then it's a free skate into the Flyers end. Just like the Devils did last night. You can label Gervais's pinch as idiotic all you want, but that is not what lead to the odd man rush. You talk about systems but don't seem aware that Gervais is doing what he is supposed to be doing there, and is not backed up by the forward support that is supposed to be there. It is by design, and it is taught by the Coach.
What personell are missing from last year? Jagr and Carle? Do you really beleive that having them would turn this around? I'm as big a fan of Carle as there is, but he isn't that good, that he'll turn it around!
And it seems that you're missing the point of it all, is that this team does not have the personel to play the way the Coach wants them to play. So why not adjust and play a style that is more suited to the personel on hand.
Let's look at last year. The Flyers beat the Pens in run and gun undisciplined Hockey in the first round of the playoffs. Then they faced the Devils. With that same personel that they had last year. What happened? Deja vue!
- MJL

I agree completely

it's the opinion of the board now, of course. back in the summer of '11, not so much.

as far as who was available...he didn't get the guy, did he? in the end the result is what matters. the best opp he had was hamilton. that we know. doesn't mean couts is a bad pick by any stretch, but need can justifiable mitigate a draft board when plyrs are that close. Johnson's a close call, I'd have to think about.
- isaiah520

It's always been the opinion of the board. That the Flyers have had trouble drafting and developing defenseman isn't exactly a new concept. And I was under the impression that the discussion was about what's happening in 2013, not 2011. Maybe we should go back and post in that thread?
Let's look at the results. One off season he didn't get the guy. For how long now, before this Season, has Holmgrem iced a very good defense. Should we again go over all the defenseman that Holmgren has added to this team. One off season the defense fell short. I'll say the same thing again that I've said multiple times. Give the GM a chance to fix it. He's prove over time that he can.

By becoming smaller and faster, especially up front.

How'd that developing thing work out, BTW?
- Jsaquella

They really aren't your father's Flyers, are they?

Giroux and Briere up front. Didn't think I'd ever see the Flyers do that kind of lineup.

(Disclaimer to make people relax: I'm not saying they aren't good players)

They really aren't your father's Flyers, are they?

Giroux and Briere up front. Didn't think I'd ever see the Flyers do that kind of lineup.

(Disclaimer to make people relax: I'm not saying they aren't good players)
- Atomic Wedgie

One of them's good.

One of them's good.
- NickTheKid87

Yeah, I was kinda wondering what you are going to do with Briere.

$6.5 million cap hit for each of the next two seasons.

$5 million total owed to him.

Do you actually trade him to Columbus, or do you just put him in a basket and drop him off on the doorstep of Nationwide Arena, ring the bell and run?

Actually, if Lavi does get fired down the road his biggest legacy here might not be the SC run, it might be panicking and pulling Bob in the Playoffs which started the whole chain of events that lead to Bob getting traded. Maybe Bob regresses like Mason. But maybe he becomes the elite goalie most of us thought he would be

your right. but that would make him somewhat valuable trade commodity no?
- Philly1980

Well, I would think Timonen would certainly generate interest if we tried to trade him. However, he has a NMC in his contract, so I don't know how likely that is. But even if we could find a team to which he'd be willing to go, there is still the issue of replacing him.

So if you trade him for a prospect or a picks, who then plays on our top pairing? Did you like that Foster/Gervais paring last night? Because that's what you're looking at every night if you trade Kimmo. Quite simply, it comes down to the fact that there is nobody available via FA who can bring what Kimmo does to the team. Yes, he's lost a step. But he's still better than anyone else on that FA list by a wide margin.

Or are you one of the guys who thinks we'll make a fantasy hockey trade and get OEL for Couturier and a year's supply of Jim's Steaks?

By becoming smaller and faster, especially up front.

How'd that developing thing work out, BTW?
- Jsaquella

Ehn, so so. It's too early to tell. They identified Read, McGinn seems to have developed nicely, Zolnerchuk and some of the other free agents from college have contributed. That's a pretty positive reflection on them.

While they may have started drafting faster players they didn't start drafting smaller players or signing smaller players. Drafting faster skaters and giving a chance to what was once considered undersized players has been a league wide trend since the lockout. That's not something the Flyers decided to do to ape the Sabres. If it was it would be true of every team in the league and even you can't think that it's all the teams copying a non cup winning team.

It's always been the opinion of the board. That the Flyers have had trouble drafting and developing defenseman isn't exactly a new concept.
Let's look at the results. One off season he didn't get the guy. For how long now, before this Season, has Holmgrem iced a very good defense. Should we again go over all the defenseman that Holmgren has added to this team. One off season the defense fell short. I'll say the same thing again that I've said multiple times. Give the GM a chance to fix it. He's prove over time that he can.
- MJL

the flyers are 40-1 odds in Las Vegas to win the cup...might be a good 100.00 bet?

Yeah, I was kinda wondering what you are going to do with Briere.

$6.5 million cap hit for each of the next two seasons.

$5 million total owed to him.

Do you actually trade him to Columbus, or do you just put him in a basket and drop him off on the doorstep of Nationwide Arena, ring the bell and run?
- Atomic Wedgie

Problem is that IF he was willing to waive his NMC it wouldn't be to Columbus. Need a serious contender that is nearer to floor than ceiling and wouldn't mind help in the cap dept. any teams fit that profile?

Actually, if Lavi does get fired down the road his biggest legacy here might not be the SC run, it might be panicking and pulling Bob in the Playoffs which started the whole chain of events that lead to Bob getting traded. Maybe Bob regresses like Mason. But maybe he becomes the elite goalie most of us thought he would be
- TheGreat28

I don't think many of us saw him as potentially being elite. I think he'll be a good starting goalie. A top 15 in his prime but not a perennial Vezina candidate.

Well, I would think Timonen would certainly generate interest if we tried to trade him. However, he has a NMC in his contract, so I don't know how likely that is. But even if we could find a team to which he'd be willing to go, there is still the issue of replacing him.

So if you trade him for a prospect or a picks, who then plays on our top pairing? Did you like that Foster/Gervais paring last night? Because that's what you're looking at every night if you trade Kimmo. Quite simply, it comes down to the fact that there is nobody available via FA who can bring what Kimmo does to the team. Yes, he's lost a step. But he's still better than anyone else on that FA list by a wide margin.

Or are you one of the guys who thinks we'll make a fantasy hockey trade and get OEL for Couturier and a year's supply of Jim's Steaks?
- BringBack25

dont care about replacing him since we arent going to make it to the cup finals next year either. Frankly he isnt playing good out there for me to notice him gone. Its sad but true... let me try and get something for him.


I also think Homer isnt going to trade for OEL...Why would he when he can just offer sheet him? phoenix with no owner is not going to match period. It would be a Richard move but whatevas they dont care about hockey there anyways.

I don't think many of us saw him as potentially being elite. I think he'll be a good starting goalie. A top 15 in his prime but not a perennial Vezina candidate.
- NickTheKid87

Fair enough. But that would still be better than what we've had for last 25 years

I don't think many of us saw him as potentially being elite. I think he'll be a good starting goalie. A top 15 in his prime but not a perennial Vezina candidate.
- NickTheKid87

I think that is his max... and I dont think it will be a routine...

dont care about replacing him since we arent going to make it to the cup finals next year either. Frankly he isnt playing good out there for me to notice him gone. Its sad but true... let me try and get something for him.


I also think Homer isnt going to trade for OEL...Why would he when he can just offer sheet him? phoenix with no owner is not going to match period. It would be a Richard move but whatevas they dont care about hockey there anyways.
- Philly1980

I'm not so sure I'd be so quick to ditch Kimmo, despite looking like he's lost a step.

He's still 4th among defensemen in the league in assists and 4th in points. He's a +1 for the year.

I think a healthy Kimmo Timonen is part of the solution.

I'm not so sure I'd be so quick to ditch Kimmo, despite looking like he's lost a step.

He's still 4th among defensemen in the league in assists and 4th in points. He's a +1 for the year.

I think a healthy Kimmo Timonen is part of the solution.
- johndewar

I think not having to rely on him so much is an even bigger part of the solution.

It's always been the opinion of the board. That the Flyers have had trouble drafting and developing defenseman isn't exactly a new concept. And I was under the impression that the discussion was about what's happening in 2013, not 2011. Maybe we should go back and post in that thread?
Let's look at the results. One off season he didn't get the guy. For how long now, before this Season, has Holmgrem iced a very good defense. Should we again go over all the defenseman that Holmgren has added to this team. One off season the defense fell short. I'll say the same thing again that I've said multiple times. Give the GM a chance to fix it. He's prove over time that he can.
- MJL

I would say the 2010-11 who was tied for 3rd in NHL in points with 106 had a pretty good defense with all players Homer brought in (Pronger, Carle, Mez, Timonen, Coburn, O'Donnell). The goaltending situation needed to be addressed. I agree with you that Homer has tried and shown he can do it.

Yeah, I was kinda wondering what you are going to do with Briere.

$6.5 million cap hit for each of the next two seasons.

$5 million total owed to him.

Do you actually trade him to Columbus, or do you just put him in a basket and drop him off on the doorstep of Nationwide Arena, ring the bell and run?
- Atomic Wedgie

I firmly believe Briere can still make a difference. Just not on this team...
I also get the feeling Columbus may not remain the place players go to die... I see this new GM turning them around.
I think Holmgren tries really, really hard to trade Briere someplace he'll be valued this season even if it's not for much return. If not then I see us buying him out.

I had to laugh at that visual image as he's actually quite nice looking. Of course I'm a sucker for dark hair and eyes.. (Being female I can get away with that )

Fair enough. But that would still be better than what we've had for last 25 years
- TheGreat28

Hextall, Cechmanek. Those guys were good. I'm sure you could make the argument for some others as well.

I don't see Bob being any better than Bryzgalov when all is said and done.

I'm not so sure I'd be so quick to ditch Kimmo, despite looking like he's lost a step.

He's still 4th among defensemen in the league in assists and 4th in points. He's a +1 for the year.

I think a healthy Kimmo Timonen is part of the solution.
- johndewar

I dont like it either....but it is what it is.

I firmly believe Briere can still make a difference. Just not on this team...
I also get the feeling Columbus may not remain the place players go to die... I see this new GM turning them around.
I think Holmgren tries really, really hard to trade Briere someplace he'll be valued this season even if it's not for much return. If not then I see us buying him out.

I had to laugh at that visual image as he's actually quite nice looking. Of course I'm a sucker for dark hair and eyes.. (Being female I can get away with that )
- FlyersGrace

John Davidson will make a difference in Columbus, no doubt about that. it might take a couple, three seasons, but it will happen.

dont care about replacing him since we arent going to make it to the cup finals next year either. Frankly he isnt playing good out there for me to notice him gone. Its sad but true... let me try and get something for him.


I also think Homer isnt going to trade for OEL...Why would he when he can just offer sheet him? phoenix with no owner is not going to match period. It would be a Richard move but whatevas they dont care about hockey there anyways.
- Philly1980

You don't care about replacing him huh? Interesting. I thought the idea was to try to make the team better. I guess I do not understand your objective here. There is no way we are a better team after trading Kimmo for picks and not replacing him. Those picks will be years away from making the team (in all likelihood) and we still have to ice a team next year.

Combine that with the fact that MAB doesn't seem like he'll ever recover from his concussions and Manning seems to have regressed this season, and our D depth is razor thin. Forget the Cup, don't see how we could even be competitive if we move Kimmo and do not replace him.

And again, most of the reasons Kimmo and the rest of this D look so bad at times is because the forwards do such an awful job of supporting the puck and keeping the D-F gap as tight as it should be. If that improved, Kimmo would look much better. On the other hand, nothing will ever make Gervais or Foster look like top-4 NHL defensemen. So trading Kimmo and not replacing him seems like an unwise strategy.

Also, offer sheets will be tougher to do since you can't go more than 7 years, and can't do front loaded deals to lower the AAV. Phoenix has that extra year to work with if they sign him. Not saying it can't happen, but it will be harder.

would anyone trade this years first for JBLOW?