Doesn't answer the question, nor does it explain why you think a rebuild is coming.
- MJL

there is zero in the at the Phantoms and there is no depth at D or goalie...thats a rebuild

The talent level with the Phantoms has pretty much everything to do with Paul Holmgren.
- PLindbergh31

I agree that the talent level for the Phantoms is garbage and that Holmgren is the one responsible for that.

We just saw how much not having Luke Schenn in the lineup hurt the Flyers D and everyone still wants JVR back. JVR would have scored 5 goals last night I guess.
- NickTheKid87

wed be lucky if he scored five goals all season...point is i want to see what he does next year in toronto when he is more comfortable.

First of all, sir, with your clear and coherent posts you don't belong here.

Peter Laviolette has won a Stanley Cup as a head coach. With the right personnel, his system can be fantastic. However, with the wrong personnel, it can fail miserably. Unfortunately, we've seen a template where Laviolette clung tight to his system and failed, despite losing key personnel that made his system effective in Carolina.

In the case of the Flyers, Laviolette's current team is not suited for the system he wants to run. I will not say that he has made no adjustments. There's been tweaks in the defensive coverage, but they are not big changes, and they have been largely ineffective. It also isn't just a one year thing. The signs have been there for awhile.


- Jsaquella

So doesn't some of the blame fall upstairs? PL isn't new here. They know his style yet there are players who don't suit that style. I guess it's a chicken-egg thing. Do you get players for the coach you have or do you get a coach for the players you have? Seems the Flyers haven't answered that question.

We just saw how much not having Luke Schenn in the lineup hurt the Flyers D and everyone still wants JVR back. JVR would have scored 5 goals last night I guess.
- NickTheKid87

I'll be honest, having Luke Schenn in the lineup last night, wouldn't have made much difference. JVR wouldn't have either. When it's a total team issue, one player can't really make much of a difference.

Bryz stinks! The defense stinks! The forwards stink! It's just a mess. They need to blow this up and start over. Purge the front office and hire Brian Burke as GM and Lindy Ruff as head coach. Send Couturier to the AHL because he is lost. Hope they finish low enough to get enough ping-pong balls to get a shot at drafting Jones or McKinnon. In the off-season buyout Bryz-fivehole and maybe Briere also. Do not re-sign Gagne, Fedotenko or Knuble. Give Cousins and Laughton and maybe even Goethlisbere a legit shot to make the team next season. This team needs to build with youth and speed. That is the way the NHL has gone and the Flyers need to get on board. They have some pieces to be that type of team with Giroux, Read, Voracek and Simmonds but they need more and it's going to take a few years. Everyone in Toronto blasted Burke for his refusal to part with good young talent for a quick fix and it cost him his job but look at where the Leafs are now. He knows how to build winning teams. It just takes some time and patience. Not sure what you do with the backline and in goal but Coburn, Mezaros, Schenn, Grossmann and Timonen are not as bad as they are playing right now. Need to trade or sign a goaltender once Bryz is let go. Just my view on this nightmare that has become the Philadelphia Flyers.

wed be lucky if he scored five goals all season...point is i want to see what he does next year in toronto when he is more comfortable.
- Philly1980

I don't even care about JVR. Schenn has exceeded expectations. We'd be a lot worse off with out him. We have plenty of offensive talent in the top 6.

Richards and Carter? If this is about them...
- NickTheKid87

someone still moaning about the 2 coke heads?

whoever thinks

Capn Richie + cartsy > Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier, Grossmann needs to get their (frank)ing head examined

there is zero in the at the Phantoms and there is no depth at D or goalie...thats a rebuild
- vejim

Tweaking a roster and adding a player or two such as a backup Goalie isn't a rebuild!

someone still moaning about the 2 coke heads?

whoever thinks

Capn Richie + cartsy > Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Couturier, Grossmann needs to get their (frank)ing head examined
- Philly1980

I didnt say anything about those 2 players

I'll be honest, having Luke Schenn in the lineup last night, wouldn't have made much difference. JVR wouldn't have either. When it's a total team issue, one player can't really make much of a difference.
- MJL

I agree but I just think it's funny that people think having JVR over Schenn would make this team a playoff contender. It's basically the same principle you stated but with JVR instead of Schenn.

Bryz stinks! The defense stinks! The forwards stink! It's just a mess. They need to blow this up and start over. Purge the front office and hire Brian Burke as GM and Lindy Ruff as head coach. Send Couturier to the AHL because he is lost. Hope they finish low enough to get enough ping-pong balls to get a shot at drafting Jones or McKinnon. In the off-season buyout Bryz-fivehole and maybe Briere also. Do not re-sign Gagne, Fedotenko or Knuble. Give Cousins and Laughton and maybe even Goethlisbere a legit shot to make the team next season. This team needs to build with youth and speed. That is the way the NHL has gone and the Flyers need to get on board. They have some pieces to be that type of team with Giroux, Read, Voracek and Simmonds but they need more and it's going to take a few years. Everyone in Toronto blasted Burke for his refusal to part with good young talent for a quick fix and it cost him his job but look at where the Leafs are now. He knows how to build winning teams. It just takes some time and patience. Not sure what you do with the backline and in goal but Coburn, Mezaros, Schenn, Grossmann and Timonen are not as bad as they are playing right now. Need to trade or sign a goaltender once Bryz is let go. Just my view on this nightmare that has become the Philadelphia Flyers.
- C-Vac

And what did burke do for toronto? Jack poop...

Ghost is 165 lbs.....that is small for a defenseman he would get torn to shreds in the nhl....he needs to get up to 185 at least.

I didnt say anything about those 2 players
- vejim

Then who????

Bryz stinks! The defense stinks! The forwards stink! It's just a mess. They need to blow this up and start over. Purge the front office and hire Brian Burke as GM and Lindy Ruff as head coach. Send Couturier to the AHL because he is lost. Hope they finish low enough to get enough ping-pong balls to get a shot at drafting Jones or McKinnon. In the off-season buyout Bryz-fivehole and maybe Briere also. Do not re-sign Gagne, Fedotenko or Knuble. Give Cousins and Laughton and maybe even Goethlisbere a legit shot to make the team next season. This team needs to build with youth and speed. That is the way the NHL has gone and the Flyers need to get on board. They have some pieces to be that type of team with Giroux, Read, Voracek and Simmonds but they need more and it's going to take a few years. Everyone in Toronto blasted Burke for his refusal to part with good young talent for a quick fix and it cost him his job but look at where the Leafs are now. He knows how to build winning teams. It just takes some time and patience. Not sure what you do with the backline and in goal but Coburn, Mezaros, Schenn, Grossmann and Timonen are not as bad as they are playing right now. Need to trade or sign a goaltender once Bryz is let go. Just my view on this nightmare that has become the Philadelphia Flyers.
- C-Vac

Maybe when Lavy goes, he can give Rinaldo and the rest of the team their BALLS back.

I can't beleive there was zero response to the Carter trip/knee.

Then who????
- NickTheKid87

hey man, you should attack Homer not me

I agree. Holmgren shouldn't be concerned with the Calder Cup. No one cares who wins that. But he's thrown away a bunch of draft picks trying for quick fixes. When a GM does that it hurts the pipeline.

I'm not blindly defending Laviolette, a person would have to be naive to think he hasn't done a poor job this year. There is a litany of issues with this team. Easiest thing to do is start with the coach.
- PLindbergh31

He has traded a lot of draft picks. Two first rounders who would be on the Phantoms now and available as recalls went for Pronger. Didn't see a lot of complaining about that when they went to the SCF.

I agree there's a litany of issues. I wouldn't exonerate Holmgren or the players on hand.

But I do feel that the current roster is better than several teams that currently hold playoff spots. I see other teams with coaches getting a lot more out of far less, while the Flyers try to play a system designed for Pronger and Carle while they have Schenn and Coburn.

I fault Holmgren to a degree, despite him going out and being aggressive in the free agent market last summer. You know he's been kicking tires all over the place just by the amount of games he has scouts at.

But Laviolette has known, since September at the latest, that his defense would be bigger and less mobile than before. That's plenty of time to make changes. He either didn't or made bad ones.

As it stands, this team is an undisciplined mess. The bad habits need to be broken and discipline needs to be instilled. I don't think Laviolette is the man to do it. That's what it boils down to for me. And the sooner that process starts, the better, IMO.

OHH poop IS ABOUT TO GET REAL

Philadelphia Flyers ‏@NHLFlyers
#Flyers report to Skate Zone at 11 am, no on-ice time has been determined.

Not expecting him to be a top pairing defenseman playing against other team's top lines, would be a start. He's a very good 2nd pairing guy. I'd like to keep him around in that role.
- bradleyc4

he was very good in the playoffs last year. he is having a horrible season. I still have hopes that he will turn it around. what frustrates me is that this defense on paper and when healthy isn't all that bad. I mean, they shouldn't be. its definitely magnified with Meszaros being hurt almost the entire season and Coburn really having a bad season.

This seasons has been tough for Flyers fans..

Last night was pretty much a compilation of every problem we have seen in this "lock-out" shortened season condensed into a 60 minute game.

Adjustments have to be made.. and it hasnt happened.

I think it was a little before the midpoint of the second period when there was a stat displayed... Odd Man Rushes. The Flyers had allowed 7 oddman rushes(to the devils 1).. in less than half the game. WHY? They are blinded by their own aggression.

I dont know how many times last night (or in just about any game over the past however freakin long) where there would be 3 forwards in deep.. two behind the net and one a long the boards down deep. The puck is sent around the boards where our d-man pinches with reckless abandon. Sometimes our d-man gets to that puck and keeps it alive, but way more times he doesnt.. and the other team heads down the ice on a 2v1 or 3v1 with our "highest" forwards trying to play catch up. Hell, it happened about 5 times last night alone. Its disastrous!

The moment I knew ALL was lost though, was when Ryan Carter stuck out his leg and went knee/shin to knee with Rinaldo.. and every single player just skated around not even so much as heading over to Carter.. all while Rinaldo was trying to figure out if he was ok down on the ice.

Rinaldo, the guy who has been the spark plug all season... goes to bat for guys all the time.. gets hit with a cheap shot.. and not a single player did a damn thing about it. Screw the 1-0 score at that moment. That was a possibility for the team to rally around each other.. say "(frank) it.. were a team, and we dont take that poop" and go out and bring some pride back to the team.

Instead... you got a few chirps.. and the Devils continued to push us around and control the momentum and the game. They dictated the play the entire night.
- jak521

You def nailed it on this one. There was no response Bc they aren't a team out there

hey man, you should attack Homer not me
- vejim

Seems to me that you're complaints are based more on frustration than fact.

I'm asking you what trades you didn't like. The Schenn trade? The Pronger trade? The Richards trade? The Carter trade? The Powe trade? What?

I see that a lot of the people who feel that Laviolette should be fired are being attacked by others who are reducing the argument into "It's all Lavy's fault"

This sort of moronic simplemindedness belongs on WIP. Nobody is saying that Laviolette is the only one to blame, or that the situation is all his fault. Those that feel that I or others are making that argument are simply ignoring the bulk of what we've been saying or are just trying to be bumholes.

Peter Laviolette has won a Stanley Cup as a head coach. With the right personnel, his system can be fantastic. However, with the wrong personnel, it can fail miserably. Unfortunately, we've seen a template where Laviolette clung tight to his system and failed, despite losing key personnel that made his system effective in Carolina.

In the case of the Flyers, Laviolette's current team is not suited for the system he wants to run. I will not say that he has made no adjustments. There's been tweaks in the defensive coverage, but they are not big changes, and they have been largely ineffective. It also isn't just a one year thing. The signs have been there for awhile.

One trend for the Flyers the last two seasons has been their inability to beat teams that play tight checking systems, with aggressive forechecking and strict discipline. If that team has good offensive talent on top of that discipline, the Flyers have usually been toast.

People also rip Terry Murray, by pointing to his record with the Phantoms. Let's take a look at the talent level on the Phantoms. When he had Sean Couturier and Bryaden Schenn, those two accounted for 61% of the Phantoms offense. Even with those two, the Phantoms weren't very good.

My view is, Murray(and John Paddock for that matter) have solid records and teaching coaches. Murray has a strong record of instilling discipline in teams and getting them to be better two way players on an individual level. This is a largely young team that needs teaching more than motivation. Murray also isn't a guy married to a system. He can coach high scoring teams(as he did in Washington as well as Philly) and he can coach defense first style teams as he did in Los Angeles.

The season is likely not salvageable. No available coach is likely to come in and go 16-3 and squeak into the playoffs. That's why I want somebody to come in and lay a foundation of discipline, good two way play and to break the bad habits that are forming.

I wouldn't bring either Murray or Paddock in as a permanent replacement. But rather as an interim guy to teach and break bad habits. Then I would cast a wide net for a replacement. That's the other consideration.

Most guys I'd want are locked into jobs and it would cost compensation as well as a multi-year contract to get them now. I want to really shake the tree, not automaticall be locked into a Lindy Ruff or Ted Nolan.

Wit until summer and see if a Jon Cooper, Dallas Eakins or Steve Spott is willing and ready to make a jump to the NHL.
- Jsaquella

this technique or the endurance test..

Do you think the current team has enough talent in it's lineup to be a playoff team. And to be a competitive team game in and game out?
- MJL

I don't think it's the right mix of players to be a contending team. Do I think there is enough talent to be a bottom seeded team in the Eastern Conference? Perhaps if everything broke right. Factor in injuries, and players underachieving etc.. and you have a bunch of games like last night.

Homer picked the coach, the players and is responsible for drafting for future needs. I am sure Snider is not happy

First of all, sir, with your clear and coherent posts you don't belong here.



So doesn't some of the blame fall upstairs? PL isn't new here. They know his style yet there are players who don't suit that style. I guess it's a chicken-egg thing. Do you get players for the coach you have or do you get a coach for the players you have? Seems the Flyers haven't answered that question.
- Scoob

I do place blame upstairs. But I also know that the front office made two contract offers to Ryan Suter and Shea Weber that were over $200mm, with half of that in signing bonuses that were guaranteed cash up front.

I see that the front office made a big effort to land player to play the style that the coach likes. I follow a lot of beat writers throughout the NHL, and every night the Flyers have scouts at games, looking at players. So the front office is trying to make moves.

But since late July, Laviolette has known that this would be his team. He either didn't make changes to match the roster or he made changes that didn't work.