Holmgren has stated time and again that he's not going to trade from the young core to help fix this season. I'm cautiously optimistic that he won't change his mind.
- bradleyc4

still wouldn't trade couts for OEL? not that PHO would do it cause he's practically untouchable at this point.

I would have zero problem with any of that. My preference is to make the coaching move now, to get a better read on the players on hand and who would handle being in a more disciplined and two way system the best
- Jsaquella

Exactly what I wanna see.

I said it before.. Coming into the season, I fully expected to see certain players struggle a bit.. Couts, Schenn, Simmonds, maybe Voracek..

Instead.. Talbot, G, Timonen, Coburn, Hartnell, briere have all been terrible. Thats our core group of vets. That hurts like hell.

Like you said, the silverlining is that most of the younger guys continued to take the next step.

What they need is big BUFF back there!!

Plan B might have been for the "Stanley Cup Winning" head coach to make the needed adjustments.

People keep touting that Stanley Cup, but I haven't seen a great coaching job by any stretch. I see other, non Cup winning coaches doing a lot more with less talent.
- Jsaquella

I think that was exactly 'plan b', given the Luke Schenn trade and the comments about goals against made at the beginning of the year.

Holmgren has stated time and again that he's not going to trade from the young core to help fix this season. I'm cautiously optimistic that he won't change his mind.
- bradleyc4

He knows this season is a wash already...Even the causal hockey fan/WIP listener can tell you that....

Next step is to make moves for the long term. Hopefully they can trade briere for a pick/prospect and as much as i hate to say it the same goes for kimmo. You might not be able to replace him next year, but the guy is worn down to a knub. Try to get something for him.

still wouldn't trade couts for OEL? not that PHO would do it cause he's practically untouchable at this point.
- isaiah520

No, I don't think I would.

What they need is big BUFF back there!!
- Just5

No because then he would eat all of voracek's dumplings and Voracek would never score again.

I would have zero problem with any of that. My preference is to make the coaching move now, to get a better read on the players on hand and who would handle being in a more disciplined and two way system the best
- Jsaquella

Well something has to change. I'm not thrilled with the alternatives, but things cannot stay status quo.

I know this is the elephant in the room, but I'm wondering if the Flyers will be better off when Ed Snider isn't the owner anymore. He does everything in his power to win, but the lack of patience often proves to be the teams undoing.

you all know how I feel, just in attack mode and I get it
- vejim

But you never offer any arguments as to why you feel this way.

hey Jsaq, next time you post an encyclopedic volume like that, could you include a handful of youtube videos of yourself recording hockey plays on your television? Thanks.

still wouldn't trade couts for OEL? not that PHO would do it cause he's practically untouchable at this point.
- isaiah520

For OEL yes...

He knows this season is a wash already...Even the causal hockey fan/WIP listener can tell you that....

Next step is to make moves for the long term. Hopefully they can trade briere for a pick/prospect and as much as i hate to say it the same goes for kimmo. You might not be able to replace him next year, but the guy is worn down to a knub. Try to get something for him.
- Philly1980

Kimmo is obviously not the same guy from 2-3 years ago, but he brings a lot to the table in terms of a mentor for these guys. I'm happy to have him back next season.

Plan B might have been for the "Stanley Cup Winning" head coach to make the needed adjustments.

People keep touting that Stanley Cup, but I haven't seen a great coaching job by any stretch. I see other, non Cup winning coaches doing a lot more with less talent.
- Jsaquella

hitch won a cup and i think he lived on that rep more than he deserved until he adjusted. now it's lavi's turn.

still wouldn't trade couts for OEL? not that PHO would do it cause he's practically untouchable at this point.
- isaiah520

I dont think so.. adding OEL wouldnt cure the Flyers issues... having better team defense, in particular from the forwards, would.

Kimmo is obviously not the same guy from 2-3 years ago, but he brings a lot to the table in terms of a mentor for these guys. I'm happy to have him back next season.
- bradleyc4

As am I.

Certainly all fair points. 99% of the time the first domino to fall is the coach. And that will likely be the case here.

There is a chance as next season begins there is a new coach, gm, and goaltender in place.
- PLindbergh31

The may as well give Bryz the full 2013-14 season, then buy him out afterwards if he doesn't play well enough to justify six more years at 5.67m.

But you never offer any arguments as to why you feel this way.
- NickTheKid87

thats why

i agree w/ you about lavi, but homer has a bigger bite here, IMO. plan B lacking...
- isaiah520

Plan A was suter
Plan B was not signing carle to an awful contract
Plan C was weber.


Holmgren bears 5% of this

Well something has to change. I'm not thrilled with the alternatives, but things cannot stay status quo.

I know this is the elephant in the room, but I'm wondering if the Flyers will be better off when Ed Snider isn't the owner anymore. He does everything in his power to win, but the lack of patience often proves to be the teams undoing.
- PLindbergh31

If only Ed were just a bit more patient. I love that he's willing to do what it takes, but... well, I guess Lavi's not the only one who's guilty of pushing an aggressive gameplan in all situations

Not to Mention Luca Sbisa, a first round offensive defenseman who, while not setting the world on fire right now, would be getting regular minutes with the Flyers. Not quite a draft pick but an important piece that was traded. Lupul probably would've been traded for draft picks or a depth defenseman as well.

While Pronger played well during his short tenure here they gave up a Kings ransom in players and picks to get him as a one year rental which forced Holmgren to give him an actual Kings ransom in cash to keep him here after one year.

At the time it was viewed that if the Flyers didn't win a Stanley Cup during Pronger's 1st 2 or 3 years the trade would be considered a failure as the Flyers gave up half a decade of 1st round picks for defenseman who would be entering a severe decline now even if he was healthy.

There were people who thought it was a bad idea at the time but many more were blinded by Pronger's arrival and didn't want to hear that by paying for Pronger on credit now would result in the bill coming due down the road. Well the bill is due.
- Flyers_01

If Pronger didn't suffer an untimely career ending injury, a lot of the issues they have no wouldn't be happening.

It's amazing how that gets overlooked. Pronger was not expected to play here for 2 or 3 years and then retire. They expected him for at least 5 or 6 years, at which time they would have had more years of picks to replenish the ones dealt away.

So suddenly it's Holmgren's fault that Pronger got hit in the eye and basically had to retire?

Kimmo is obviously not the same guy from 2-3 years ago, but he brings a lot to the table in terms of a mentor for these guys. I'm happy to have him back next season.
- bradleyc4

true but at 6 mill?

I think that was exactly 'plan b', given the Luke Schenn trade and the comments about goals against made at the beginning of the year.
- BulliesPhan87

I feel like Homer has set the organization back 5 years and now another rebuild coming?
- vejim

He's certainly made a number of questionable moves (the length of the Bryz contract, the JvR trade, the 2nd Leighton resigning, the Shelley signing, the Gagne-Walker trade, etc.) but in several of those cases, either his hands were tied (Gagne, JvR) or he was forced into it (Bryz). If Pronger's healthy, they probably don't do the JvR trade. The Gagne one could partially be put on him because he's responsible for cap management; either way, it had to be done.
Teams are getting smarter and locking up their talent unless it's the ultra-top-tier guys (Parise and Suter), so there's not a lot of fill-in-the-hole type of guys. He's partially been dealt a bad hand, and some of the moves he's made he's had no choice. He got great returns for Richards and Carter. The problem is, unlike the 06/07 season, I just don't think there are the players available for quick retool. I really think we're going to have to be patient and ride this out for another year or two and hopefully a FA signing and prospect or 2 work out and can help the team work back towards being a contender.

Holmgren has stated time and again that he's not going to trade from the young core to help fix this season. I'm cautiously optimistic that he won't change his mind.
- bradleyc4

Barring a miracle this season is gone, any trade Holmgren would be making wouldn't make sense to have this year in mind. I'm worried he may make a shortsighted panic type of trade trying to save his job.

Not to Mention Luca Sbisa, a first round offensive defenseman who, while not setting the world on fire right now, would be getting regular minutes with the Flyers. Not quite a draft pick but an important piece that was traded. Lupul probably would've been traded for draft picks or a depth defenseman as well.

While Pronger played well during his short tenure here they gave up a Kings ransom in players and picks to get him as a one year rental which forced Holmgren to give him an actual Kings ransom in cash to keep him here after one year.

At the time it was viewed that if the Flyers didn't win a Stanley Cup during Pronger's 1st 2 or 3 years the trade would be considered a failure as the Flyers gave up half a decade of 1st round picks for defenseman who would be entering a severe decline now even if he was healthy.

There were people who thought it was a bad idea at the time but many more were blinded by Pronger's arrival and didn't want to hear that by paying for Pronger on credit now would result in the bill coming due down the road. Well the bill is due.
- Flyers_01

i was def not in favor of the pronger trade for the LT outlook, but a trip to the SCF makes it difficult to not call it at least a break even.