Yes. I said before this season started there was a good chance they would miss the playoffs. When Nashville matched the Weber offer sheet, and Meszaros blew his achilles out a short time later, I knew this defense core was going to be in shambles.
- PLindbergh31

The defense is still good enough to be a much better team then they are now.

Well something has to change. I'm not thrilled with the alternatives, but things cannot stay status quo.

I know this is the elephant in the room, but I'm wondering if the Flyers will be better off when Ed Snider isn't the owner anymore. He does everything in his power to win, but the lack of patience often proves to be the teams undoing.
- PLindbergh31

The biggest issue with Snider is, he always seems to be trying to win last year's Stanley Cup. He presses for immediate moves to win now, and I think he was a driving force in both the Bryzgalov signing and the Carter and Richards trades.

I dont think so.. adding OEL wouldnt cure the Flyers issues... having better team defense, in particular from the forwards, would.
- jak521

from an asset perspective, OEL is worth more and from a need perspective, it's a slam dunk IMO.

Well something has to change. I'm not thrilled with the alternatives, but things cannot stay status quo.

I know this is the elephant in the room, but I'm wondering if the Flyers will be better off when Ed Snider isn't the owner anymore. He does everything in his power to win, but the lack of patience often proves to be the teams undoing.
- PLindbergh31

Of course they will be better. Show me a franchise that's better off with an old middling owner.

The may as well give Bryz the full 2013-14 season, then buy him out afterwards if he doesn't play well enough to justify six more years at 5.67m.
- Feanor

I'm inclined to give him next year as well. With perhaps a retooled roster, and new coach.

The defense is still good enough to be a much better team then they are now.
- MJL

The defense isn't even the biggest issue. It's team defense that is a bigger issue than the 6 defensemen.

signing carle alone would have given homer a known quantity in an area he was already short on. it would have required some juggling of assets in case the FA mkt worked out, but that's part of his job.
- isaiah520

And guess what. Having Matt Carle wouldn't turn this team around. And you know what the current conversation would be. Holmgren screwed up and paid Carle too much, and he would be added to the scapegoat list. As sure as the Sun comes up.

The biggest issue with Snider is, he always seems to be trying to win last year's Stanley Cup. He presses for immediate moves to win now, and I think he was a driving force in both the Bryzgalov signing and the Carter and Richards trades.
- Jsaquella

I agree. Those moves came from the owner. Holmgren doesn't have the authority imo to make those deals without at the very least Snider being on board.

I do place blame upstairs. But I also know that the front office made two contract offers to Ryan Suter and Shea Weber that were over $200mm, with half of that in signing bonuses that were guaranteed cash up front.

I see that the front office made a big effort to land player to play the style that the coach likes. I follow a lot of beat writers throughout the NHL, and every night the Flyers have scouts at games, looking at players. So the front office is trying to make moves.

But since late July, Laviolette has known that this would be his team. He either didn't make changes to match the roster or he made changes that didn't work.
- Jsaquella

I agree with all of that. All else being equal, though, had they landed one of those guys I really don't believe they'd be any better off than they are today. Perhaps it's time to stop thinking home run and start thinking about generating success with incremental tweaks.

from an asset perspective, OEL is worth more and from a need perspective, it's a slam dunk IMO.
- isaiah520

Im not saying that I wouldnt want OEL, but I think that having an elite level defensive forward that can put up 50-60 points is an incredible perk for a team.

It's really not that complicated to recognize is it?
- MJL

Nope.....just frustrating as hell watching it and not seeing it change.

And guess what. Having Matt Carle wouldn't turn this team around. And you know what the current conversation would be. Holmgren screwed up and paid Carle too much, and he would be added to the scapegoat list. As sure as the Sun comes up.
- MJL

I do think that Carle was Holmgren's biggest mistake, but it wasn't made in the summer. Had Holmgren signed Carle during the season, when he had tagging space instead of Grossmann, he has Carle at a good price and probably manages to get Grossmann re-signed for similar money in the summer.

hey Jsaq, next time you post an encyclopedic volume like that, could you include a handful of youtube videos of yourself recording hockey plays on your television? Thanks.
- BulliesPhan87

I said the same thing. It fell well short of expectations due to the lack of video support.

Know what the best part of that post with all the videos was? But the standard that he offered, supported by the videos. Every single NHL defenseman is a puck moving defenseman with the cirteria he offered. It was hysterical.

And guess what. Having Matt Carle wouldn't turn this team around. And you know what the current conversation would be. Holmgren screwed up and paid Carle too much, and he would be added to the scapegoat list. As sure as the Sun comes up.
- MJL

Thank god we let him go.

I agree with all of that. All else being equal, though, had they landed one of those guys I really don't believe they'd be any better off than they are today. Perhaps it's time to stop thinking home run and start thinking about generating success with incremental tweaks.
- Scoob

BINGO!
This team isnt one great player away from being a cup contender. They need to change philosophies, IMO. Get away from playing with reckless aggression.. get away from trying to win through offense alone. Bring in a philosophy that instills devoted 2 way play. That puts guys in a better position to protect the team. When that happens, you will see huge differences.

I agree with all of that. All else being equal, though, had they landed one of those guys I really don't believe they'd be any better off than they are today. Perhaps it's time to stop thinking home run and start thinking about generating success with incremental tweaks.
- Scoob

I think they'd be much better off. If they had Weber, they'd have a fantastic, 25-30 minute a night guy who does every thing well. Weber also brings a presence to the table that is missing with the loss of Pronger.

I'm inclined to give him next year as well. With perhaps a retooled roster, and new coach.
- PLindbergh31

A Bryz buyout this summer seems very unlikely given it would cost the Flyers $23m over 14 years. If they wait an extra year that figure drops to a more reasonable $17.67m over 12 years.

The defense isn't even the biggest issue. It's team defense that is a bigger issue than the 6 defensemen.
- Jsaquella

Yup... As many as the D stinks on their own, the forwards have been horrible at hustling to backcheck, or even just play strong when the other team has the puck... they don't have any defensive "attitude", so to speak. I know everyone isn't a Selke candidate, but it IS everyone's job to play defense. it all starts up front, and works it's way back. In a perfect world, the goalie wouldn't face any shots. Obviously, that isn't reality, so the next best thing is to limit the amount of quality shots they get on your goalie.

from an asset perspective, OEL is worth more and from a need perspective, it's a slam dunk IMO.
- isaiah520

If you could get OEL for Couturier, it is a slam dunk.

Holmgren has stated time and again that he's not going to trade from the young core to help fix this season. I'm cautiously optimistic that he won't change his mind.
- bradleyc4

I hope you are right.

Plan A was suter
Plan B was not signing carle to an awful contract
Plan C was weber.


Holmgren bears 5% of this
- Just5

putting a funky mix of plyrs together is on the GM. lavi def deserves much more of the blame here, but not addressing an aging D w/ other contracts due a couple of seasons ago is on homer. more foresight needed that plyrs could be wearing, cap might be tight. please don't give me the "he had no way of knowing about pronger" argument- it's weak.

i just wanted a young puck mover in here at that time in case the older guys play further eroded and the coby/carle contract issues reared their ugly heads. said so at the time, caught hell.

I agree with all of that. All else being equal, though, had they landed one of those guys I really don't believe they'd be any better off than they are today. Perhaps it's time to stop thinking home run and start thinking about generating success with incremental tweaks.
- Scoob

Any team that adds a franchise defenseman is automatically better.

I think they'd be much better off. If they had Weber, they'd have a fantastic, 25-30 minute a night guy who does every thing well. Weber also brings a presence to the table that is missing with the loss of Pronger.
- Jsaquella

I agree they would be better, but they wouldnt be instant contenders. They would likely be fighting for the 8th spot still. Thats just MO, but I dont think one player, regardless of his acumen and skill set, would put this team over the top. They need to rethink how they play the game.

I do think that Carle was Holmgren's biggest mistake, but it wasn't made in the summer. Had Holmgren signed Carle during the season, when he had tagging space instead of Grossmann, he has Carle at a good price and probably manages to get Grossmann re-signed for similar money in the summer.
- Jsaquella

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Carle was a UFA and Grossman an RFA going into the summer?

And guess what. Having Matt Carle wouldn't turn this team around. And you know what the current conversation would be. Holmgren screwed up and paid Carle too much, and he would be added to the scapegoat list. As sure as the Sun comes up.
- MJL

I'm accounting for my opinion not other people's. my plan B goes back to the summer of fun. i was right then and here we are.