Tim Panaccio: Who's Kidding Whom?
- tpanaccio

Homer swung for the fences and missed. I don't put this on him. Plenty of talent - blames falls to the players, and particularly the coach, who's demonstrated no answer for his toughest ECF opponents, except for Pittsburgh, which is more of a miracle than an in intention because the Pens' goaltending has been porous and their play undisciplined. they have one way of playing - and it's clearly not working. blowing leads, gaining 0 points when being tied after 2 periods, etc.

The key players on the team have been ineffective and the young guys looking to take the next step have mostly stepped backwards.

bryz gets a pass. he was fantastic early, and is still playing well enough to keep his team in it most nights. he needs a break, and he needs support from the team in front of him. but hey, let's everyone blame the crazy russian goalie because it's the only thing people, including the media dolts, especially those in this town, know how to do. how about NOT giving up 3-4 oddman rushes against PER PERIOD?!

laviolette shoulders the majority of the responsibility, and he's justifiably ripe for being let go. this season is not salvageable. time to move on.

The players need to step it up for sure, nobody is exonerating the players.

But some of that can be placed on Laviolette's head too. He looks like he might bench Sean Couturier tonight, which is fine. But Danny Briere will play his customary 13-17 minutes.
- Jsaquella

maybe not enough...but they have changed from the two man forecheck to a 1-2-2 from to time and they still lost...who's at fault? both...

Couturier needs a sit down...i would say the same thing with Danny B.

maybe not enough...but they have changed from the two man forecheck to a 1-2-2 from to time and they still lost...who's at fault? both...

Couturier needs a sit down...i would say the same thing with Danny B.
- phi1671

The changes Laviolette has made haven't been drastic or had much effect.

The bottom line to me is, there are several other coaches who get a lot more from a lot less than Laviolette does with the Flyers.

When I watched that Devils game on Wednesday, I didn't see a lazy, heartless Flyers team. I saw a team that worked hard, but stupid. They were recklessly aggressive as Mike Milbury said. The Devils were aggressive, too. But it was a controlled aggression, funneled into a systematic attack and defense.

I respect Jasq and MJL's knowledge of hockey. Although I've played the game and watched the Flyers for 40 years I'm no student of the game. I do know one thing, tho...it is about the players. Laviolette is a good coach. He's a good motivator and I'm fairly sure he knows the game better than all of us. To say the players that Holmgren put together have little to do with how poorly this team is playing makes no sense to me. If you loose players and don't replace them with better players you are not going to be a better team. I don't see what you mean when you say that the team Holmgren put together has enough skill to be a playoff team. They don't look like a playoff team to me. It's not just about the players' skill...they all have skill in the NHL. To win you need players who are supremely talented or are extra driven or motivated or all of the above. What makes Timmonen a better player than Coburn? Is it skill? I don't think so.

So... I don't know, maybe these guys have the talent or skill to be a better team. Maybe they just don't like the coach and have tuned him out, maybe they don't have the confidence or the understanding or the willingness to play the "system" the coach wants them to play. If that's the case I don't see it as a failing on the part of the coach...that's on the players and it's also on the GM for not finding the players who do.
- Dkos

Skill absolutely is a large part of what makes Timonen a better player then Coburn. Not the only factor, but definitely part of it. This team absolutely has the players to be a playoff team. The players cannot play the way that Laviolette wants them to. That is painfully obvious. He needs to adjust and he hasn't.

maybe not enough...but they have changed from the two man forecheck to a 1-2-2 from to time and they still lost...who's at fault? both...

Couturier needs a sit down...i would say the same thing with Danny B.
- phi1671

I haven't see this change from a two man forecheck to a 1-2-2. The Flyers play a 1-3-1 lock from time to time situation-ally, such as behind a dump in and a line change. But they haven't played a 1-2-2.

Look guys, I'm a pens fan, and we missed out on the same players that you did. We also lost pieces without replacing them. However, the pens seem to keep rolling, at least through regular seasons, no matter what they face. Over the last few years we've had so many players miss time to injury its infuriating. I definitely feel for the Flyers fans. The problem is not Homer...it has more to do with a fragile locker room or coach. To be honest, the playoffs aren't the same without the Flyers in them. I truly take pride in the rivalry. IMO, with the talent the Flyers have they should NEVER be out of the playoffs. I put this more on the coaching then anything else.
- cranktheradio

Forwards... Most of the Pens core guys have been around for a while, at 5 years or more. And, the core forward group have played with these guys the whole time. These guys click night-in night-out... Our forwards are 5 years and younger as a group. And, the experienced ones, have only had a year or two to build chemistry. Plus, the Pens don't really on Rookies/Second year guys as much as the Flyers. Sure we have a few older guys, but not enough to overcome the inconsistency. The problem isn't Fragile, its inconsistency, and with youth - you get inconsistency. Give this team a few more years without an over hall (aka like shipping Richards/Carter out) and they will be much better than today.

Defense... Pens leading defenseman is in his prime, ours is rapidly getting older. Our defense would make a huge leap forward with a #1 defenseman. Unfortunately, Timmo performance is sliding (mainly over-played, and now oft injured) and he can't fake being a true #1. Homer has tried to bring one in but the right deal - that won't dismantle everything else isn't there. A trade for a legit #1 would dismantle, trade for a future #1 takes time, so the only thing left is UFA. Homer has tried with no luck. Stay tuned for next summer...

Look guys, I'm a pens fan, and we missed out on the same players that you did. We also lost pieces without replacing them. However, the pens seem to keep rolling, at least through regular seasons, no matter what they face. Over the last few years we've had so many players miss time to injury its infuriating. I definitely feel for the Flyers fans. The problem is not Homer...it has more to do with a fragile locker room or coach. To be honest, the playoffs aren't the same without the Flyers in them. I truly take pride in the rivalry. IMO, with the talent the Flyers have they should NEVER be out of the playoffs. I put this more on the coaching then anything else.
- cranktheradio

This has almost zero to do with coaching and more about the players. When the system dictates a dump in/hard forecheck and the forecheckers are consistently beaten to the puck, the defending team has an easy out. Add to that the fact that the defenders are the second wave of forechecking, either overcommit or do not get in a good position defensively to hold the team into the offensive zone.

When the team does get in and doesn't cycle, the defenders jump in without backchecking support. Go back and watch video of the Flyers games the last couple of weeks and you will see this same offensive scenario happen again and again and again. Odd man rushes become the norm because the defending team sees what the Flyers are going to do and plays for it. Beat the forecheckers to the puck, dump it out to a teammate or chip it out off the wall and they are behind the defense and the flyers are scrambling to get back defensively and usually dont.

The #1 thing they need to do is get in on the forecheck, faster, and harder and punish any opposing backchecker mercilessly for being there, when they do that they control the puck, cycle for control and create offensive pressure. This team needs the pressure in the O zone to score because they dont really have a natural sniper on each line....

When you couple all of this with the plague of bad decision making in your own zone its a recipe for disaster. The Flyers are out of sync in every zone, and that's not coaching as much as it is executing.

just sayin.

Plus Gustaffson is a lost blind sheep in any zone and he's depending on Gervais for direction.

This has almost zero to do with coaching and more about the players. When the system dictates a dump in/hard forecheck and the forecheckers are consistently beaten to the puck, the defending team has an easy out. Add to that the fact that the defenders are the second wave of forechecking, either overcommit or do not get in a good position defensively to hold the team into the offensive zone.

When the team does get in and doesn't cycle, the defenders jump in without backchecking support. Go back and watch video of the Flyers games the last couple of weeks and you will see this same offensive scenario happen again and again and again. Odd man rushes become the norm because the defending team sees what the Flyers are going to do and plays for it. Beat the forecheckers to the puck, dump it out to a teammate or chip it out off the wall and they are behind the defense and the flyers are scrambling to get back defensively and usually dont.

The #1 thing they need to do is get in on the forecheck, faster, and harder and punish any opposing backchecker mercilessly for being there, when they do that they control the puck, cycle for control and create offensive pressure. This team needs the pressure in the O zone to score because they dont really have a natural sniper on each line....

When you couple all of this with the plague of bad decision making in your own zone its a recipe for disaster. The Flyers are out of sync in every zone, and that's not coaching as much as it is executing.

just sayin.

Plus Gustaffson is a lost blind sheep in any zone and he's depending on Gervais for direction.
- edmac812

Actually what the Flyers need to do is the opposite of what you advise. And it's definitely on the Coach. What you suggest is in conflict of one another. This team can't go in harder on the forecheck while also applying backchecking. The problem is that they go in too hard on the forecheck. With reckless abandon. The scenario that you describe of one dump out or chip off the wall describes perfectly why the Flyers need to be better. 3 forwards are deep, and defenseman pinching in. There is no secondary pressure, no neutral zone presence. And that is on the Coach. This team needs to play better defensively to score more. Not pressure the puck harder. They have tons of offensive ability on this team.

"The Flyers fictional belief that they could land all 3 big-time free agents last summer was laughable."

What the heck were they supposed to do? They threw massive amounts of money at the best UFA/RFA's out there. That's all they can do. I don't know why that's laughable... I don't think Holmgren expected to land them all, in fact, I think he would have been surprised and ecstatic to land one of them. I guess they should have signed Carle for an overpayment of $5.5mil, right? Homer did what he could, with what he has. You can't trade away Couturier, +Shenn, +Simmonds, +Read, +1st round picks for Weber... even if Nashville would have bit on it, what good is it to have a Norris caliber defenseman, if the rest of your team is gone?

I just don't understand why you have to be so condescending in everything you write. Being "realistic" is one thing... being a constant Debbie Downer and pot stirrer is another...

"The Flyers fictional belief that they could land all 3 big-time free agents last summer was laughable."

What the heck were they supposed to do? They threw massive amounts of money at the best UFA/RFA's out there. That's all they can do. I don't know why that's laughable... I don't think Holmgren expected to land them all, in fact, I think he would have been surprised and ecstatic to land one of them. I guess they should have signed Carle for an overpayment of $5.5mil, right? Homer did what he could, with what he has. You can't trade away Couturier, +Shenn, +Simmonds, +Read, +1st round picks for Weber... even if Nashville would have bit on it, what good is it to have a Norris caliber defenseman, if the rest of your team is gone?

I just don't understand why you have to be so condescending in everything you write. Being "realistic" is one thing... being a constant Debbie Downer and pot stirrer is another...
- WarriorHockey21

Tim Pannacio ignores the detail that it was impossible for the Flyers to land all 3 players due to the Cap situation. And also ignores the timeline.

Skill absolutely is a large part of what makes Timonen a better player then Coburn. Not the only factor, but definitely part of it. This team absolutely has the players to be a playoff team. The players cannot play the way that Laviolette wants them to. That is painfully obvious. He needs to adjust and he hasn't.
- MJL

They can't play the way Laviolette wants them too? Why? They're not smart enough? Can't skate fast enough? They could last year but they can't this year?

I'm currently incarcerated in Rahway State prison for killing my landlord
- Jsaquella

they changed the name of that prison decades ago

They can't play the way Laviolette wants them too? Why? They're not smart enough? Can't skate fast enough? They could last year but they can't this year?
- Dkos

This current team obviously can't. When something is not working, and the same issues come up game after game. You change, and adjust. You keep asking me the same question. It's pretty obvious what the situation is.

They could last year? What happened against the Devils in the playoffs last year? Same as what happened Wednesday night.

They can't play the way Laviolette wants them too? Why? They're not smart enough? Can't skate fast enough? They could last year but they can't this year?
- Dkos

That's what I can't fathom... everyone is blaming Laviolette. Which, sure, nobody is blameless right now. But I said it a million times, and I'll say it again - You cannot play for the players. You can coach them, teach them, show them, change them... but you can't play for them. He's made roster changes, line changes, he's talked to them, told them what to do... and yet they don't execute. Listen to him and Berube mic'd up. They'll be yelling at them to do something, and yet they don't do it. I fail to see how it's completely Lavvy's fault.

I'd get rid of the attitudes and underachievers pulling the locker room down before I'd get rid of Lavvy right now.

Tim Panaccio: Who's Kidding Whom?
- tpanaccio

how on earth is this person a professional writer

That's what I can't fathom... everyone is blaming Laviolette. Which, sure, nobody is blameless right now. But I said it a million times, and I'll say it again - You cannot play for the players. You can coach them, teach them, show them, change them... but you can't play for them. He's made roster changes, line changes, he's talked to them, told them what to do... and yet they don't execute. Listen to him and Berube mic'd up. They'll be yelling at them to do something, and yet they don't do it. I fail to see how it's completely Lavvy's fault.

I'd get rid of the attitudes and underachievers pulling the locker room down before I'd get rid of Lavvy right now.
- WarriorHockey21

Yup, same here. Sure Lavi's system isn't the best suited for hard-checking teams, but I think if the guys really follow it to a tee and show up every night with a killer instict, this team is in the playoffs right now, and there isn't huge panic.

Also, people forget that we have John Paddock as our "eye-in-the-sky" for defensive schemes and watching the games from above for things he can catch and relay to Lavi. If the team on the ice cannot, or isn't willing to work hard enough to implement the changes, no coach is going to win. Consistency. We just need to maintain some consistency with our efforts and we'll see some wins.

That's what I can't fathom... everyone is blaming Laviolette. Which, sure, nobody is blameless right now. But I said it a million times, and I'll say it again - You cannot play for the players. You can coach them, teach them, show them, change them... but you can't play for them. He's made roster changes, line changes, he's talked to them, told them what to do... and yet they don't execute. Listen to him and Berube mic'd up. They'll be yelling at them to do something, and yet they don't do it. I fail to see how it's completely Lavvy's fault.

I'd get rid of the attitudes and underachievers pulling the locker room down before I'd get rid of Lavvy right now.
- WarriorHockey21

Who are the players with attitudes and underachievers that should be weeded out?

Yup, same here. Sure Lavi's system isn't the best suited for hard-checking teams, but I think if the guys really follow it to a tee and show up every night with a killer instict, this team is in the playoffs right now, and there isn't huge panic.

Also, people forget that we have John Paddock as our "eye-in-the-sky" for defensive schemes and watching the games from above for things he can catch and relay to Lavi. If the team on the ice cannot, or isn't willing to work hard enough to implement the changes, no coach is going to win. Consistency. We just need to maintain some consistency with our efforts and we'll see some wins.
- Flyers_V88

Other then a minor change in defensive zone coverage, there is no evidence of any system changes made by the Flyers.

Other then a minor change in defensive zone coverage, there is no evidence of any system changes made by the Flyers.
- MJL

That's a fair point, however, that doesn't mean that there haven't been attempts to change. I was merely suggesting that I've started to become a big proponent of the players really being at fault here. Most games they just seem so lifeless...

There are games where you can tell they have their skating legs and are on the puck. Most other games, they just coast a bit and make bad choices.

Yup, same here. Sure Lavi's system isn't the best suited for hard-checking teams, but I think if the guys really follow it to a tee and show up every night with a killer instict, this team is in the playoffs right now, and there isn't huge panic.

Also, people forget that we have John Paddock as our "eye-in-the-sky" for defensive schemes and watching the games from above for things he can catch and relay to Lavi. If the team on the ice cannot, or isn't willing to work hard enough to implement the changes, no coach is going to win. Consistency. We just need to maintain some consistency with our efforts and we'll see some wins.
- Flyers_V88

Unfortunately, there don't seem to be changes implemented. If there had been changes implemented, rather than minor, ineffective tweaks, I'd be totally on the don't blame Laviolette bandwagon.

Laviolette himself said he wasn't changing when the season began, and he's stuck to that. Other coaches came in, saw the teams they had or what injuries did to their teams and made adjustments and changes.

They have gotten more wins out of less talent. Ottawa, New Jersey, Toronto...none of those teams are more talented than the Flyers on paper, yet they're all ahead of the Flyers in the standings. How is that not the coach's fault, even if he shares the blame?

That's a fair point, however, that doesn't mean that there haven't been attempts to change. I was merely suggesting that I've started to become a big proponent of the players really being at fault here. Most games they just seem so lifeless...

There are games where you can tell they have their skating legs and are on the puck. Most other games, they just coast a bit and make bad choices.
- Flyers_V88

Yes it does mean that there haven't been attempts to change. Anyone with a basic knowledge of Hockey systems would recognize changes made. For the most part effort and work ethic are not an issue in my opinion.

Yes it does mean that there haven't been attempts to change. Anyone with a basic knowledge of Hockey systems would recognize changes made. For the most part effort and work ethic are not an issue in my opinion.
- MJL

Like I said, no it doesn't necessarily. Just because the players can't excecute, doesn't mean that Lavi, Holmer, or Paddock haven't tried to make some changes.

If the players aren't executing or playing with passion, any good skating and checking team will just tear through those attempted changes. As well, are all of us fans here really under the impression there have literally been no changes or efforts made to correct the problems we see on the ice? Really? Do you think at this level of professional sport, the organization would be so stubborn to just stand-pat? I don't think so. These are skilled athletes being run by professional coaches... I actually do not think it's entirely possible that is the exact case. I'm not saying it's THE only problem, but I guarantee that the players are partially to blame, as this team is just flat most nights. They don't start games they way they used to last year, and I think youth has played a large part.

Like I said, no it doesn't necessarily. Just because the players can't excecute, doesn't mean that Lavi, Holmer, or Paddock haven't tried to make some changes.

If the players aren't executing or playing with passion, any good skating and checking team will just tear through those attempted changes. As well, are all of us fans here really under the impression there have literally been no changes or efforts made to correct the problems we see on the ice? Really? Do you think at that level of professional sport, the organization would be so stubborn to just stand-pat? I don't think so. These are skilled athletes being run by professional coaches... I actually do not think it's entirely possible that is the exact case. I'm not saying it's THE only problem, but I guarantee that the players are partially to blame, as this team is just flat most nights. They don't start games they way they used to last year, and I think youth has played a large part.
- Flyers_V88

Execution is one thing. Simple discipline is another. The Flyers have played hard, but it's been unfocused aggression. That tells me that the tweaks made haven't been working because there's no accountability or discipline instilled.

The teams that are beating the Flyers are doing so largely by being disciplined in their own system. Even last year, when they were a good team in the standings, they got eaten alive by teams that played disciplined and stayed in their systems.

Eventually, the Flyers would start being too aggressive and get caught and boom.

This current team obviously can't. When something is not working, and the same issues come up game after game. You change, and adjust. You keep asking me the same question. It's pretty obvious what the situation is.
- MJL

maybe I'm confused by the answers I keep getting. I hear from you, and others, that the Flyers have enought talent to be a good team, but they don't have players good enough to play Laviolette's system. Come on...it's not part of Lavilette's system to play with "reckless abandon". He doesn't teach the defensemen to pinch in when in every situation. His "system" is a framework. It's up to the players to execute it. If you can't commit without getting beat...don't commit. Giroux, Hartnell, Briere, Couturier, Reed, Simmonds, Voarchek, Rinaldo, Schenn, Talbot, Coburn, Grossman, Gustafson, Mesz, Timmonen were good enough to play Lavy's system last year, but aren't this year? Who's messing them up? Fedotenko, Gagne, L.Schenn and Gervais are making it imposible for the team to play Laviolette's system?

Like I said, no it doesn't necessarily. Just because the players can't excecute, doesn't mean that Lavi, Holmer, or Paddock haven't tried to make some changes.

If the players aren't executing or playing with passion, any good skating and checking team will just tear through those attempted changes. As well, are all of us fans here really under the impression there have literally been no changes or efforts made to correct the problems we see on the ice? Really? Do you think at that level of professional sport, the organization would be so stubborn to just stand-pat? I don't think so. These are skilled athletes being run by professional coaches... I actually do not think it's entirely possible that is the exact case. I'm not saying it's THE only problem, but I guarantee that the players are partially to blame, as this team is just flat most nights. They don't start games they way they used to last year, and I think youth has played a large part.
- Flyers_V88

Even if the players weren't executing the changes made, they would still be obvious that there were changes made in systems play. Just like earlier in the Season when the Flyers made a change to their defensive zone coverage.

The Flyers Coaches of course have tried to correct the player errors that have been made within Laviolette's system of play. But they are still asking the players to play the same way. It's obvious that this team cannot play that way. And that team's take advantage routinely of the Flyers over aggressive style of play. Rather then change to a style of play more suited to the current team. And yes, Laviolette is that stubborn. I've talked about the double edged sword of the way Laviolette likes to play since the day he was hired by the Flyers.