The Coaches job is to put the players in the best position to succeed. And if players aren't succeeding, then it's the Coaches job to make adjustments to help them succeed. It's certainly not entirely on the Coaches. But I know the difference between the two.
- MJL

When you have so many under-performing players on your team, there's only so much a coach can do. And most people know the difference, just as most people know that once the game starts, it's up to the players to execute, read/react, and win.

These guys have been playing hockey since they were small children, if they don't know how to read and react to a play, they don't deserve to be in the NHL.

Changing the coach might help, and it might not. My only point is, this team is - right now - not that good. Potential isn't reality.

As for the Devils, who is really going to debate they are an average team without Martin Brodeur? They lost 8 of their last 10. That speaks for itself.

I'm currently incarcerated in Rahway State prison for killing my landlord
- Jsaquella

When you have so many under-performing players on your team, there's only so much a coach can do. And most people know the difference, just as most people know that once the game starts, it's up to the players to execute, read/react, and win.

These guys have been playing hockey since they were small children, if they don't know how to read and react to a play, they don't deserve to be in the NHL.

Changing the coach might help, and it might not. My only point is, this team is - right now - not that good. Potential isn't reality.

As for the Devils, who is really going to debate they are an average team without Martin Brodeur? They lost 8 of their last 10. That speaks for itself.
- wolfhounds

You're completely dismissing the possibility that the reason so many players are underachieving is because of Coaching and the style of play, and lack of adjustments. You make my point for me. What are the odds of that many players all having subpar years at the same time?
The point you are missing is that there is a reason why this team right now, is not that good.
Good teams even when they have all of their good players, go into slumps.

When you have so many under-performing players on your team, there's only so much a coach can do. And most people know the difference, just as most people know that once the game starts, it's up to the players to execute, read/react, and win.

These guys have been playing hockey since they were small children, if they don't know how to read and react to a play, they don't deserve to be in the NHL.

Changing the coach might help, and it might not. My only point is, this team is - right now - not that good. Potential isn't reality.

As for the Devils, who is really going to debate they are an average team without Martin Brodeur? They lost 8 of their last 10. That speaks for itself.
- wolfhounds

The Devils problem this year, when Brodeur got hurt, was that Hedberg played horribly. He gave up a lot of soft goals. He's righted the ship, it seems and is playing a lot better the last two games.

If your goalie allows 2 soft goals a game, you're likely going to lose.

Changing the coach right now is probably not going to help, at least for this season.

But I want the process to begin of instilling discipline, seeing how guys react when they are held accountable, get them started on the pathway to being better two way guys and get a better teacher in to do that.

Not that Laviolette can't teach, but his success has largely come with veteran teams.

I don't know how long you've been around this site. But I am historically Pro Coach. I backed Hitch when he got fired.
- MJL

I do know you joined this site September 20, 2007 and Ken Hitchcock was fired as head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers on October 22, 2006.

- Lexington Flyer

C-I-L my landlord.

Tim....Seriously? a LARGE amount of the responsibility goes to Holmgren for the reasons you stated? C'mon. Effectively, what you wrote boils down to a concept of Carle and Van Reimsdyk vs. Luke Schenn being the difference between being a 5th seed with a bunch of players expected to improve and a team being on the outside looking in.

Peter Laviolette is a much larger contributor. Just look at the series against the Devils. The offensive forechecking schemes killed us in that series and there was no noticeable adjustment by the Flyers AT ALL as the games went by, indicating, either:
A) The coaching staff saw nothing that needed adjustment;
B) The coaching staff was stumped;or
C) The players refused to implement any changes designed by the coaching staff.

All three options indicate a BIG problem. Nothing that has occured during this season leads me to believe that this problem has not gotten worse.

I do know you joined this site September 20, 2007 and Ken Hitchcock was fired as head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers on October 22, 2006.
- watsonnostaw

It's not possible that I backed a Coach before joining the site? My point about asking how long someone has been around on the site, is that my posting history here shows that I am historically Pro Coach.

I haven't see that at all. And I have an in-depth knowledge of Hockey systems. Other then in situational play, such as behind a dump in with a line change behind it. Laviolette has continued to play his 3-2 press forecheck. He has even to the detriment of the team, ramped up the forechecking pressure, such as in the 3rd period of the Ranger game. With he score tied 2-2 to the detriment of the team. Cost them the game. Other then minor tweaks. And numerous line personnel changes. The adjustments are non existant.
- MJL

I do as well, and have seen the changes occur in-game. Were they always used in effective situations? No. Has he made poor choices on when to amp-up the pressure? Yes. But, the key word you mentioned is situationally, and that's what I was making reference to. If you were thinking I meant coming out with the new system from start to finish, I wasn't implying that. My main point was that there have been attempts, albeit maybe poorly timed or ineffective, but there have been.

You're completely dismissing the possibility that the reason so many players are underachieving is because of Coaching and the style of play, and lack of adjustments. You make my point for me. What are the odds of that many players all having subpar years at the same time?
The point you are missing is that there is a reason why this team right now, is not that good.
Good teams even when they have all of their good players, go into slumps.
- MJL

The same as the odds that we had 3 or 4 players who had career years last year?

I find it very unlikely Laviolette will retain his job if the Flyers continue on with this horrible play. I just distribute the blame evenly across management, coach, and players.

I do as well, and have seen the changes occur in-game. Were they always used in effective situations? No. Has he made poor choices on when to amp-up the pressure? Yes. But, the key word you mentioned is situationally, and that's what I was making reference to. If you were thinking I meant coming out with the new system from start to finish, I wasn't implying that. My main point was that there have been attempts, albeit maybe poorly timed or ineffective, but there have been.
- Flyers_V88

So your defense of Laviolette is that he made changes, but they were not effective?

What's better a coach that is stubborn and won't change or one who can't make a good change? Neither, they both fail to get the job done

I do as well, and have seen the changes occur in-game. Were they always used in effective situations? No. Has he made poor choices on when to amp-up the pressure? Yes. But, the key word you mentioned is situationally, and that's what I was making reference to. If you were thinking I meant coming out with the new system from start to finish, I wasn't implying that. My main point was that there have been attempts, albeit maybe poorly timed or ineffective, but there have been.
- Flyers_V88

Sorry, but the changes you said have happened, aren't there, and haven't happened. Those situations are a very small part of the game. Every team plays some type of neutral zone defense such as a 1-2-2 Neutral zone trap behind making line changes. The Flyers tend to play a hybrid left wing lock. You mentioned in a previous post a 1 man, 2 man, and 3 man forecheck. Not the case with this team. Those changes haven't happened. Other then some minor tweaks to the defensive zone coverage. There hasn't been any attempts. Both Jsaq and I have also followed up with not only the evidence of watching the team play. But comments by the Coach, intimating that other then minor tweaks, he is not going to change his identity, and how he wants to play. And he hasn't. There in lies the issue.

The same as the odds that we had 3 or 4 players who had career years last year?

I find it very unlikely Laviolette will retain his job if the Flyers continue on with this horrible play. I just distribute the blame evenly across management, coach, and players.
- wolfhounds

Big difference between a few players having a career year. And players team wide struggling. And there are some players having career years this year. Offense is not this team's issue. Defense is.

The Devils problem this year, when Brodeur got hurt, was that Hedberg played horribly. He gave up a lot of soft goals. He's righted the ship, it seems and is playing a lot better the last two games.

If your goalie allows 2 soft goals a game, you're likely going to lose.

Changing the coach right now is probably not going to help, at least for this season.

But I want the process to begin of instilling discipline, seeing how guys react when they are held accountable, get them started on the pathway to being better two way guys and get a better teacher in to do that.

Not that Laviolette can't teach, but his success has largely come with veteran teams.
- Jsaquella

Regarding Brodeur, it can be argued he's the best goalie who's ever played the game, and when a player of that caliber is out of the lineup, it leaves a void. The good side is Marty is nearing retirement; the bad side is we won't be able to see him play any longer.

I want the Flyers to win, obviously, but at this point in time it makes more sense to go for a high draft pick rather than a squeaking into the playoffs. Granted, anything can happen once in the post-season, but it would take a drastic turn of fortunes for the Flyers to be contenders.

And regarding this season, I just think it was a perfect storm of misfortune for the Flyers from last summer's free agency misses to the lockout, to the insane starting schedule, to injuries, to sophomore and veteran slumps, on down the line. And Lavy definitely catches some of the blame. And I think some changes are definitely required - a few trades and bringing Murray up wouldn't hurt this team at all.

Big difference between a few players having a career year. And players team wide struggling. And there are some players having career years this year. Offense is not this team's issue. Defense is.
- MJL

Agreed.

We're in the middle of the pack in Shots Against (14), but 3rd from the worst (28 out of 30) in Goals Against.

So your defense of Laviolette is that he made changes, but they were not effective?

What's better a coach that is stubborn and won't change or one who can't make a good change? Neither, they both fail to get the job done
- Jsaquella

This all stemmed from posts indicating Lavi and the staff haven't even attempted to, to which I replied that there has been some attempt. As to the effectiveness and timing, that's up for debate as we can clearly see.

Is that the only reason the team is losing? No. I agree with people here in that Lavi has an issue with certain styles of play, but I was just trying to illustrate that it's also unfair to completely disregard anything they've tried to do... That's all.

This all stemmed from posts indicating Lavi and the staff haven't even attempted to, to which I replied that there has been some attempt. As to the effectiveness and timing, that's up for debate as we can clearly see.

Is that the only reason the team is losing? No. I agree with people here in that Lavi has an issue with certain styles of play, but I was just trying to illustrate that it's also unfair to completely disregard anything they've tried to do... That's all.
- Flyers_V88

Nobody is disregarding anything they've tried to do. At least I'm not. I'm saying that other then minor tweaks, the adjustments simply haven't been even tried.

Nobody is disregarding anything they've tried to do. At least I'm not. I'm saying that other then minor tweaks, the adjustments simply haven't been even tried.
- MJL

Overhaul's no, you're right. I wish we could hear conversations between Lavi and Holmer and Lavi and the team. I'd die to hear what's said and how much of our speculations about these issues is true and what isn't.

Overhaul's no, you're right. I wish we could hear conversations between Lavi and Holmer and Lavi and the team. I'd die to hear what's said and how much of our speculations about these issues is true and what isn't.
- Flyers_V88

You spoke of a one man forecheck earlier. You have no idea how much I wish the Flyers would play some 1-2-2 at times.

You had it right on Wednesday...."Calm before the storm". Watch for Mr. Snider to leave his box early. I am sure the coaches will keep one eye focused there. He can't be too pleased with the play of Bobrovski in Ohio, either. He is not a patient man.

You spoke of a one man forecheck earlier. You have no idea how much I wish the Flyers would play some 1-2-2 at times.
- MJL

I've wondered that myself. I often wonder too if maybe we don't have the right mix of gritty and disciplined guys, but I'd be curious for a trial lol.

When you have so many under-performing players on your team, there's only so much a coach can do. And most people know the difference, just as most people know that once the game starts, it's up to the players to execute, read/react, and win.

These guys have been playing hockey since they were small children, if they don't know how to read and react to a play, they don't deserve to be in the NHL.

Changing the coach might help, and it might not. My only point is, this team is - right now - not that good. Potential isn't reality.

As for the Devils, who is really going to debate they are an average team without Martin Brodeur? They lost 8 of their last 10. That speaks for itself.
- wolfhounds

Just curious...do you play hockey? I wonder if this is the attitude of someone who plays the game as opposed to someone who studies the game. I agree with you. Granted I've never played at a level anywhere close to the NHL, but I tend to blame the players before I blame the coach or the system.

Just curious...do you play hockey? I wonder if this is the attitude of someone who plays the game as opposed to someone who studies the game. I agree with you. Granted I've never played at a level anywhere close to the NHL, but I tend to blame the players before I blame the coach or the system.
- Dkos

Trust me, so do I. So there really has to be a legitimate reason for me to blame the Coach and his system.

Trust me, so do I. So there really has to be a legitimate reason for me to blame the Coach and his system.
- MJL

I believe you. I remember you being the lone John Stevens supporter. I still don't think this is a good team...with or without Laviolette.

Regarding Brodeur, it can be argued he's the best goalie who's ever played the game, and when a player of that caliber is out of the lineup, it leaves a void. The good side is Marty is nearing retirement; the bad side is we won't be able to see him play any longer.

I want the Flyers to win, obviously, but at this point in time it makes more sense to go for a high draft pick rather than a squeaking into the playoffs. Granted, anything can happen once in the post-season, but it would take a drastic turn of fortunes for the Flyers to be contenders.

And regarding this season, I just think it was a perfect storm of misfortune for the Flyers from last summer's free agency misses to the lockout, to the insane starting schedule, to injuries, to sophomore and veteran slumps, on down the line. And Lavy definitely catches some of the blame. And I think some changes are definitely required - a few trades and bringing Murray up wouldn't hurt this team at all.
- wolfhounds

Five years ago, Brodeur was among the best active goalies. Regardless of his standing in history, he's not an Elite level goalie at age 40. He's still very good, but he's not a Vezina caliber guy anymore.

Hedberg is a capable goalie and did a good job filling in for him last year. In fact they won at the same clip last season with both goalies(Brodeur was 31-21-4, Hedberg was 17-7-2). However, when Brodeur got hurt this year, he didn't play well. That is why the Devils struggled. He was allowing several horrendous goals.

To me, for the Flyers, it's a down year. They had guys come back from Europe who were hurt and didn't play well, they had others that didn't play at all and battled rust and never seemed to find any kind of cohesion.

My issues with Laviolette didn't start this year, but this year I feel he's done a really bad job with things.