Are all you buffalo guys tring to say your problem is pommeville, vanek, or miller. No problem there is about oh i'd say 29 other teams willing to take them off your hands. You guys tried to get better by throwing money around and overpaying some guys.You also brought your top pic griganeko in to early. A quick turn around can be made in buffalo. Clean up your contract messes, get some quality caracter guys, fire the coach and as a side note it obviously wasn't lindy's fault. Don't get rid of miller pomme vanek hodgeson you already jumped the gun and got rid of a quality guy in ruff. This yrs done . the team has lost it s confidence. Big differance a yr makes and i'm jealous as all hell if you get the top 3. To be honest if seth jones goes first i think the 2nd and third pic in mackinnon or drouin is the better pic. I have a little simpathy for you guys as its a hard thing to go through this and as a maple leafs fan i know this. good luck
- aziffles

....agreed....I think some smart and calculated hockey moves could be made to turn this around quickly. The top 3 pick will be awesome and help as well....maybe get an NHL ready player. Just don't want Regier making these hockey decisions, he should go to IMO....cleanse the front office.

....agreed....I think some smart and calculated hockey moves could be made to turn this around quickly. The top 3 pick will be awesome and help as well....maybe get an NHL ready player. Just don't want Regier making these hockey decisions, he should go to IMO....cleanse the front office.
- twistedwrister9

Ah just one thing could you guys please beat the habs on tuesday please, lol,

My whole point about extending these players, is that we can get them cheaper than their current AAV. We are able to get a better deal on the business side, because we have an extra year to work with that other teams dont have. This will allow us to give them more cash up front, and be able to bring the total AAV down to something reasonable for the club side.

I think the Sabres can get Vanek for 8 years/$48M, Miller and Pommer both for 8 years/$44M. Where Vanek makes $30M in the first 4 years, Miller makes $32M in the first 4 years, and Pommer makes $27M in the first 4 years.

As I said, all of them will be in the 30's. Miller will be 34. No team will be able to unload Miller carrying an AAV of $7M+ when hes 38-39. I dont think a team wants to pay a 38 year old Miller anything over $5M in actual salary either.

Dont forget, teams will no longer be able to bury contracts in the minors anymore. That cap hit will count against a team. A team who gives Miller, Vanek or Pommer crazy contracts, they wont be able to unload them when they are 38 years old and carry a $7M AAV, nor will they be able to send them to the minors to bury the contract.
- theblueandgold

I would like to see what your numbers would be year to year. Your contract proposals all seem to be close to a violation in the NHL's new SPC rules.


a) Year-to-year variability in compensation (each year’s Salary and Bonuses) will be limited to 35% of the compensation (Salary and Bonuses) in the first year of the SPC. For example, if a Player earns $10 million in compensation (Salary and Bonuses) in Year 1 of his SPC, his compensation (Salary and Bonuses) cannot increase or decrease by more than $3.5 million in any subsequent year of the SPC.

b) The lowest year’s compensation (Salary and Bonuses) cannot be less than 50% of the highest year’s compensation (Salary and Bonuses) of the SPC. For example, if in the highest year’s compensation (Salary and Bonuses) of a Player’s SPC, he earns $10 million in total compensation (Salary and Bonuses), he may never earn less than $5 million in any single year during the term of his SPC.

I would like to see what your numbers would be year to year. Your contract proposals all seem to be close to a violation in the NHL's new SPC rules.


a) Year-to-year variability in compensation (each year’s Salary and Bonuses) will be limited to 35% of the compensation (Salary and Bonuses) in the first year of the SPC. For example, if a Player earns $10 million in compensation (Salary and Bonuses) in Year 1 of his SPC, his compensation (Salary and Bonuses) cannot increase or decrease by more than $3.5 million in any subsequent year of the SPC.

b) The lowest year’s compensation (Salary and Bonuses) cannot be less than 50% of the highest year’s compensation (Salary and Bonuses) of the SPC. For example, if in the highest year’s compensation (Salary and Bonuses) of a Player’s SPC, he earns $10 million in total compensation (Salary and Bonuses), he may never earn less than $5 million in any single year during the term of his SPC.
- dadeadhead

Ahhh, I didnt know about the a) part.

For Vanek: $8-$8-$7-$7-$5-$5-$4-$4

35% of $8M = $2.8M, 50% = 4M... this contract would fit

For Miller: $8-$8-$8-$8-$4-$4-$4-$4

35% of $8M = $2.8M, 50% = 4M... this contract would not fit.

Adjusted: $8-$8-$8-$7-$5-$4-$4-$4

For Pommer: $7-$7-$7-$6-$5-$5-$3.5-$3.5

35% of $7M = $2.45M, 50% = $3.5M... this contract would fit

I didnt write any of this down when I initially did this. I was off on Miller, I know that much. I didnt know the 35% variance. But I realize the math above is for 8 years 48M, and I said 8 years 44M. I'll have to rethink what I did.

Ah just one thing could you guys please beat the habs on tuesday please, lol,
- aziffles

No! I will be pissed if we do, we are already 2 games ahead of Florida!

Ahhh, I didnt know about the a) part.

For Vanek: $8-$8-$7-$7-$5-$5-$4-$4

35% of $8M = $2.8M, 50% = 4M... this contract would fit

For Miller: $8-$8-$8-$8-$4-$4-$4-$4

35% of $8M = $2.8M, 50% = 4M... this contract would not fit.

Adjusted: $8-$8-$8-$7-$5-$4-$4-$4

For Pommer: $7-$7-$7-$6-$5-$5-$3.5-$3.5

35% of $7M = $2.45M, 50% = $3.5M... this contract would fit
- theblueandgold

IMO not a single one of them sign those deals, too much money left on the table, and bad cap management the the Sabres.

IMO not a single one of them sign those deals, too much money left on the table, and bad cap management the the Sabres.
- dadeadhead

Vanek will be 31 in the first year of his deal. Pommer turns 32 in the first year of his deal. Miller will be 34 in the first year of his deal.

I find it hard that any other team will sign a deal with these players carrying a $6.5M cap hit or higher, unless they sign a short 3-4 year deal.

All these players are getting high money for the first 3-4 years of these deals. Which is about as much good hockey they have left in them. The back end of these contracts are to bring the cap hit down for the business side. And even Vanek getting $4M at 37 years old is good for him.

Another thing people have to remember is that even though the cap shrinks next year, you better believe the cap in 5 years is going to 10-15M higher than it will be next year. Easily at $75M in 5 years. Thats probably one factor the Ducks put into signing Perry and Getzlaf to those contracts. HRR is estimated to be $2.4B, which is only $0.6B less than last season and we played half a year.

Vanek will be 31 in the first year of his deal. Pommer turns 32 in the first year of his deal. Miller will be 34 in the first year of his deal.

I find it hard that any other team will sign a deal with these players carrying a $6.5M cap hit or higher, unless they sign a short 3-4 year deal.

All these players are getting high money for the first 3-4 years of these deals. Which is about as much good hockey they have left in them. The back end of these contracts are to bring the cap hit down for the business side. And even Vanek getting $4M at 37 years old is good for him.

Another thing people have to remember is that even though the cap shrinks next year, you better believe the cap in 5 years is going to 10-15M higher than it will be next year. Easily at $75M in 5 years. Thats probably one factor the Ducks put into signing Perry and Getzlaf to those contracts. HRR is estimated to be $2.4B, which is only $0.6B less than last season and we played half a year.
- theblueandgold

Any GM signing Miller to a deal longer than 5yrs should be fired on the spot. That's about what productive years he has left, otherwise you are paying a backup 6 mil a year (AKA bad cap management).

Vanek will get a deal in the 7.5-7.75 per based on the Getz/Perry deals.

Pommer will get something close to what you proposed but he will be signing it with a different team. He's only going to be on the team for a couple of more weeks.

Ahhh, I didnt know about the a) part.

For Vanek: $8-$8-$7-$7-$5-$5-$4-$4

35% of $8M = $2.8M, 50% = 4M... this contract would fit

For Miller: $8-$8-$8-$8-$4-$4-$4-$4

35% of $8M = $2.8M, 50% = 4M... this contract would not fit.

Adjusted: $8-$8-$8-$7-$5-$4-$4-$4

For Pommer: $7-$7-$7-$6-$5-$5-$3.5-$3.5

35% of $7M = $2.45M, 50% = $3.5M... this contract would fit

I didnt write any of this down when I initially did this. I was off on Miller, I know that much. I didnt know the 35% variance. But I realize the math above is for 8 years 48M, and I said 8 years 44M. I'll have to rethink what I did.
- theblueandgold

For arguments sake, let's just say they would agree to these deals...
You have Miller signed till he's 41, Pominville till he's 39, and Vanek till he's 38...
Do you really think that's a good idea?

I seriously doubt we will be able to sign any significant free agents, so how are we going to even get these guys the help it would take for us to become a REAL contender?
The young guy we have "ready" is McNabb... Pysyk, Grigorenko & Armia prob need another year... Girgensons, Catenacci & McCabe need multiple years still to develop & our "big3" will prob be on the decline by then
Also keep in mind, once these young guys do make the Sabres, it prob takes them a few seasons before they are consistently contributing

Miller will be 34 to start his new deal, Vanek has re-occurring back issues, and it's becoming apparent that Pominville prob isn't "Captain" material...

I really like all these guys,
But signing them to deals where we can't really get them significant help for at least a couple years doesn't make sense to me...

Doesn't it make more sense to trade these guys for younger versions of themselves, guys like O'Reilly, Bernier, etc... And add to our promising young core?
Then they can all grow together

The current mix we have just isn't working,
And continuing on that path seems crazy to me with how awful we've looked for most of last year and all of this year...
Hate to admit it,
But it's time to re-build

We should be able to get a lot for these guys that can really help add to our next "core"
And also, we'll be pretty crappy for the next two years most likely,
So we're like talking at least three top10 picks to add to the talent pool as well

What about these ideas for the basis of some trades...
(one or both sides may need to add a player, prospect, pick... But nothing too major)

Miller to Philly for Simmonds
Pominville to LA for Bernier
Stafford to Detroit for Abdelkader, pick
Vanek to Colorado for O'reilly, McGinn
Trade up (if necessary to get Jones)

McGinn-O'reilly-Simmonds
Foligno-Hodgson-Armia
Ott-Ennis-Grigorenko
Kaleta-Abdelkader-Tropp / Flynn or Gerbe
Ehrhoff-Jones
McNabb-Myers
Sekera-Weber / Sulzer or Pardy
Bernier
Enroth
And the best part is that we'd be around 10mil under the cap do we'd have plenty of room to make a couple moves if needed...

Am I crazy, or might this be fairly reasonable?

What about these ideas for the basis of some trades...
(one or both sides may need to add a player, prospect, pick... But nothing too major)

Miller to Philly for Simmonds
Pominville to LA for Bernier
Stafford to Detroit for Abdelkader, pick
Vanek to Colorado for O'reilly, McGinn
Trade up (if necessary to get Jones)

McGinn-O'reilly-Simmonds
Foligno-Hodgson-Armia
Ott-Ennis-Grigorenko
Kaleta-Abdelkader-Tropp / Flynn or Gerbe
Ehrhoff-Jones
McNabb-Myers
Sekera-Weber / Sulzer or Pardy
Bernier
Enroth
And the best part is that we'd be around 10mil under the cap do we'd have plenty of room to make a couple moves if needed...

Am I crazy, or might this be fairly reasonable?
- jdfitz77

I agree with DD in that Pommer is gone, and the only problem I have with B&G is Miller doesn't want to sign here and will likely take less $$ to go elsewhere. I think you can then either try to sign TV, but really then, what's the point?

The only thing I know is that trying to predict what trades are going to happen is useless, especially when dropping a half dozen trades out there with specifics.
The other thing we watch Garth fail with is which 'can't miss' prospect succeeds.

By the way, what did everyone think of 53?

What about these ideas for the basis of some trades...
(one or both sides may need to add a player, prospect, pick... But nothing too major)

Miller to Philly for Simmonds
Pominville to LA for Bernier
Stafford to Detroit for Abdelkader, pick
Vanek to Colorado for O'reilly, McGinn
Trade up (if necessary to get Jones)

McGinn-O'reilly-Simmonds
Foligno-Hodgson-Armia
Ott-Ennis-Grigorenko
Kaleta-Abdelkader-Tropp / Flynn or Gerbe
Ehrhoff-Jones
McNabb-Myers
Sekera-Weber / Sulzer or Pardy
Bernier
Enroth
And the best part is that we'd be around 10mil under the cap do we'd have plenty of room to make a couple moves if needed...

Am I crazy, or might this be fairly reasonable?
- jdfitz77

O'Reilly cannot be dealt for one calendar year from when the offer sheet was signed.


And Miller for Simmonds? Why don't we just throw in Armia and McNabb too? Miller, like him or not, is still an elite goalie (playing on a really bad team). You don't trade Miller unless you're getting the required three ingredients for trading an elite player in return: an established roster player, that team's top prospect and a 1st.

If we're going to rebuild this thing, they need to do it right. Get as many assets as you can, and parlay a few of those into some younger, established talent.

(I do, however, like the look of that top line...if only it were the 2nd line)

Dust off those Stafford, Sekera, and a 3rd proposals for Bobby Ryan!

Dust off those Stafford, Sekera, and a 3rd proposals for Bobby Ryan!
- Gunner Staal

I would make that deal. But would Darcy?

I would make that deal. But would Darcy?
- BuffaloHardHat

No kidding the Sabres would make that deal, it stinks for Anaheim.

No kidding the Sabres would make that deal, it stinks for Anaheim.
- Gunner Staal

Shhhhhh

Sorry people but as long as Darcy remains the GM the Sabres will be as they are. Even if they somehow get the number 1 overall pick this team will remain unchanged. So set you sights on Darcy not players... Darcy must go or you will forever see the Sabres mired in a state of futility......

If the Ducks weren't willing to be sellers last year when they finished 13th, what would make them even think about trading a player of Bobby Ryan's caliber this year when they're 2nd in the whole league and are actually legitimate Cup contenders? And why would the 2nd worst team in the league magically become buyers?

Bobby Ryan is not the odd man out. He's signed for 2 1/2 more years at a very Cap-friendly number. They might have a problem in 2015 when his deal expires, but until then, I don't think he's going anywhere. Also, last year when the Bobby Ryan rumors were out in full force, it was pretty much understood that Philly was the #1 contender, and that the Ducks were asking for Brayden Schenn AND Sean Couturier. Now ask yourself, Buffalo, would you be willing to part with two comparable young guns to get Bobby Ryan, when your team is likely about to enter a full rebuild? Those are the kind of players you want to hold on to in a rebuild, they are the players you are rebuilding around.

Bobby Ryan is not going to be traded for spare parts like Stafford, or Sekera, or 3rd round picks. He's also not gonna be traded for players like Vanek, because that's basically a wash. In fact, Vanek is probably better.

A team would have to blow the Ducks away with an offer to get Ryan, and I don't see that happening.

If the Ducks weren't willing to be sellers last year when they finished 13th, what would make them even think about trading a player of Bobby Ryan's caliber this year when they're 2nd in the whole league and are actually legitimate Cup contenders? And why would the 2nd worst team in the league magically become buyers?

Bobby Ryan is not the odd man out. He's signed for 2 1/2 more years at a very Cap-friendly number. They might have a problem in 2015 when his deal expires, but until then, I don't think he's going anywhere. Also, last year when the Bobby Ryan rumors were out in full force, it was pretty much understood that Philly was the #1 contender, and that the Ducks were asking for Brayden Schenn AND Sean Couturier. Now ask yourself, Buffalo, would you be willing to part with two comparable young guns to get Bobby Ryan, when your team is likely about to enter a full rebuild? Those are the kind of players you want to hold on to in a rebuild, they are the players you are rebuilding around.

Bobby Ryan is not going to be traded for spare parts like Stafford, or Sekera, or 3rd round picks. He's also not gonna be traded for players like Vanek, because that's basically a wash. In fact, Vanek is probably better.

A team would have to blow the Ducks away with an offer to get Ryan, and I don't see that happening.
- gtrman09

Unfortunately, our superstar blogger would disagree, and would give you a hundred reasons that don't make sense as to why Ana will "have to" trade Ryan.

I agree with you. You guys have to be looked at as legit Cup contenders this year. Bob Murray is not trading Ryan unless he's blown away by a deal.

Where's the clown this morning ? I need TV help.

Time Warner is holding me hostage. I'm ready to flip them the bird for once and for all.

Sorry people but as long as Darcy remains the GM the Sabres will be as they are. Even if they somehow get the number 1 overall pick this team will remain unchanged. So set you sights on Darcy not players... Darcy must go or you will forever see the Sabres mired in a state of futility......
- rapperray

+1

Unfortunately, our superstar blogger would disagree, and would give you a hundred reasons that don't make sense as to why Ana will "have to" trade Ryan.

I agree with you. You guys have to be looked at as legit Cup contenders this year. Bob Murray is not trading Ryan unless he's blown away by a deal.
- Powerslave

If, and I stress if the Ducks made the decision to move Ryan it certainly wont be happening at the deadline this year.

If the Ducks weren't willing to be sellers last year when they finished 13th, what would make them even think about trading a player of Bobby Ryan's caliber this year when they're 2nd in the whole league and are actually legitimate Cup contenders? And why would the 2nd worst team in the league magically become buyers?

Bobby Ryan is not the odd man out. He's signed for 2 1/2 more years at a very Cap-friendly number. They might have a problem in 2015 when his deal expires, but until then, I don't think he's going anywhere. Also, last year when the Bobby Ryan rumors were out in full force, it was pretty much understood that Philly was the #1 contender, and that the Ducks were asking for Brayden Schenn AND Sean Couturier. Now ask yourself, Buffalo, would you be willing to part with two comparable young guns to get Bobby Ryan, when your team is likely about to enter a full rebuild? Those are the kind of players you want to hold on to in a rebuild, they are the players you are rebuilding around.

Bobby Ryan is not going to be traded for spare parts like Stafford, or Sekera, or 3rd round picks. He's also not gonna be traded for players like Vanek, because that's basically a wash. In fact, Vanek is probably better.

A team would have to blow the Ducks away with an offer to get Ryan, and I don't see that happening.
- gtrman09

You realize that Stafford comment is not a serious discussion. Its more of a jab at the "wishful thinking" types like Garth that believe we can get good players for underperforming parts. Any sane person should realize that as long as the Ducks are contenders, Ryan will not be moved.

just for fun......

what would it take to get pommer or vanek in a trade to ottawa (assuming sens kept all the cap hit for either player)

i would assume that bishop would be part of the deal, allowing you to pursue moving miller.

assuming the sens "untouchables" are - spezza, karlsson, cowen, zibanejad, silfverberg, turris, lehner.

would a move like:

bishop, noessen, 1st for vanek/pommer be enough?

number 1 goalie, top six winger, and another 1st rd pick to help in the rebuild. plus a poopload of extra capspace.

You realize that Stafford comment is not a serious discussion. Its more of a jab at the "wishful thinking" types like Garth that believe we can get good players for underperforming parts. Any sane person should realize that as long as the Ducks are contenders, Ryan will not be moved.
- Dwight K. Schrute

Or the video game GMs who make 16 trades on their playstation and think it's realistic to do that in real life.