Terry Murray was coaching just last year in LA.
- johndewar

I know, and look at that team's performance and play while he coached them... With their star power and goaltending... I just don't get why people assume that if we hire Murray all our problems would just vanish or become less? Murray's system CANNOT and has almost NEVER put up numbers in terms of offense. This team is NOT constructed to play Murray hockey.

How so? Maurice has shown time and time again he can win with minimal pieces, ASIDE from his Toronto experiment where I think any coach was doomed...

He's young, can relate to the players the way Lavi can, has shown a winning record for the most part, and adds some structure to our team. I'm sorry, but all this Murray and Paddock talk makes me sick to my stomach... There's a VERY GOOD reason Paddock never found work again at the NHL level, and why Murray didn't either. Same with Mike Keenan... Those are old-school coaches... The game, mentality, and coaching style has changed a lot in today's game.
- Flyers_V88

He was awful in Toronto and his successes in Carolina were short lived.

Nobody who has mentioned Paddock or Murray has suggested them as a permanent hire. I don't know why people keep acting as if I'm suggesting that, because I have to repeatedly say I'm only interested in them as a interim coach.

I want Jon Cooper, Dallas Eakins or Steve Spott to be hired in the summer as the next permanent head coach.

But immediately, I want a guy brought in whose primary job is teaching the youngsters on the roster now how to play disciplined hockey, and Murray and Paddock have strong records as teaching coaches.

Exactly my point.

Rinaldo has played better than ANYONE could have predicted. WAY better. Yet last night was the first time he say any sort of extended time... and yet he still only got 10 minutes.

Here is the perfect example of where Lavi has made huge mistakes..

Flyers lead 4-1 going into the second period. Rinaldo is coming off of his most productive period of his career.. forchecking with aplomb, hitting everything.. a goal and an assist... Couts has been great against the Pens in his career... and is coming off of a game against the Pens in which he played very well.. got into Malkins head again.

could not agree any more

So what does Lavi do? He shortens the bench. Briere ends up getting nearly 18 minutes of ice time... Rinaldo AND Couts combine for a total of 18 minutes of ice time. Danny ends the game with 0 points and a -3. Couts and Rinaldo combine for a goal, an assist, and a +1.

Its 4-1.. you have a chance to let some of your more energetic guys of the game get some time, and give your better players some down time.. and instead you double shift? AND LOSE?
- jak521

I know, and look at that team's performance and play while he coached them... With their star power and goaltending... I just don't get why people assume that if we hire Murray all our problems would just vanish or become less? Murray's system CANNOT and has almost NEVER put up numbers in terms of offense. This team is NOT constructed to play Murray hockey.
- Flyers_V88

Murray's system is a truthful fact with truths. In truth, his system is in fact a system and is in fact true. You'll see, when they hire him that I'm right, because it's a fact that it's a true system, in fact.

I'm inclined to give a fresh face a chance. Re-cycling all these guys is rather bleh to me.
- PLindbergh31

My point exactly. I just think we have to be SUPER careful when/if selecting a new coach. I truly don't think this team is a Sutter or Murray type of sand-paper team... This team needs a coach who can be a player's coach and still not put up with BS. Hence, why I said Maurice. He's stern, but not Keenan stern, and has shown he knows how to maximize his output from minimal pieces on a team.

This reminds me of good news.

Both Matt Walker and Jody Shelley come off the cap this summer, right???

There's your silver lining for today. I'll be here all week.
- johndewar

Shelley has 5 points in 89 games played as a player. He probably had 4 points in those two games against the Flyers at the end of the season. Those two games gave Holmgren the bright idea to give him a 3 year contract. What a (frank)ing waste of cap space, and contract slot. Good lord.

Murray's system is a truthful fact with truths. In truth, his system is in fact a system and is in fact true. You'll see, when they hire him that I'm right, because it's a fact that it's a true system, in fact.
- jmatchett

lol...

I know, and look at that team's performance and play while he coached them... With their star power and goaltending... I just don't get why people assume that if we hire Murray all our problems would just vanish or become less? Murray's system CANNOT and has almost NEVER put up numbers in terms of offense. This team is NOT constructed to play Murray hockey.
- Flyers_V88

Terry Murray was a NHL head coach for 15 years. In ten of those years, his team finished in the top ten in the NHL in goals scored. In 9 of those years his team was top 6 in goals scored.

You're incorrect about Murray's abilities as a coach. His history is one of being able to coach without being married to a system.

I had very mixed feelings about the Pronger trade.
I mean, I can see why they woud do it, but I hated what they gave up for a guy Pronger's age. If he didn't get the concussion, his knees would have given out, or his back, or whatever. I hate trading for these guys even if they are Pronger when they are 35.

The Kubina deal was horrible. The Grossmann deal worked out.

Several years ago because their cap management sucked, they had to include 2nd round picks at least twice to dump off players to get cap space. Horrible management.
- Marc D

At least none of the players/picks traded for Pronger bit us in the keister afterwards.

"June 26, 2009: Traded to Philadelphia by Anaheim with Ryan Dingle for Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, Philadelphia's 1st round choices in 2009 (later traded to Columbus - Columbus selected John Moore) and 2010 (Emerson Etem) Entry Drafts and future considerations, June 26, 2009."

Hmm. That's from Hockey Reference.com. Flyershistory.com has this as the return:

"Joffrey Lupul. Lucas Sbias, 2009 1st rounder (John Moore) , 2010 1st rounder and 2010 or 2011 conditional 3rd rounder"

Needs updating.

I had very mixed feelings about the Pronger trade.
I mean, I can see why they woud do it, but I hated what they gave up for a guy Pronger's age. If he didn't get the concussion, his knees would have given out, or his back, or whatever. I hate trading for these guys even if they are Pronger when they are 35.

The Kubina deal was horrible. The Grossmann deal worked out.

Several years ago because their cap management sucked, they had to include 2nd round picks at least twice to dump off players to get cap space. Horrible management.
- Marc D

assets squandered, opportunities lost

He was awful in Toronto and his successes in Carolina were short lived.

Nobody who has mentioned Paddock or Murray has suggested them as a permanent hire. I don't know why people keep acting as if I'm suggesting that, because I have to repeatedly say I'm only interested in them as a interim coach.

I want Jon Cooper, Dallas Eakins or Steve Spott to be hired in the summer as the next permanent head coach.

But immediately, I want a guy brought in whose primary job is teaching the youngsters on the roster now how to play disciplined hockey, and Murray and Paddock have strong records as teaching coaches.
- Jsaquella

In fairness, those TO teams were HORRIBLE, and he took Carolina to a Final and a Conference Championship a few years ago...

I just think if that was the case, hiring them on interim, there's no point right now. Keep Lavi, fire him at the end of the year if that's the plan and bring a new permanent coach.

He was awful in Toronto and his successes in Carolina were short lived.

Nobody who has mentioned Paddock or Murray has suggested them as a permanent hire. I don't know why people keep acting as if I'm suggesting that, because I have to repeatedly say I'm only interested in them as a interim coach.

I want Jon Cooper, Dallas Eakins or Steve Spott to be hired in the summer as the next permanent head coach.

But immediately, I want a guy brought in whose primary job is teaching the youngsters on the roster now how to play disciplined hockey, and Murray and Paddock have strong records as teaching coaches.
- Jsaquella

He's already here. Paul Holmgren.

GID HOLMGRINANDBEARIT!

Shelley has 5 points in 89 games played as a player. He probably had 4 points in those two games against the Flyers at the end of the season. Those two games gave Holmgren the bright idea to give him a 3 year contract. What a (frank)ing waste of cap space, and a contract slot. Good lord.
- PLindbergh31

The only human being who has gotten more mileage out of a one game hockey performance than Jody Shelley might be Mike Eruzione.

They can insert Knuble, or increase the ice time of the players who are getting 7 or 8 minutes a night.

I'd rather see Couturier playing more minutes in a scoring line role and be allowed to play without worrying about making a mistake. I'd rather see Talbot or Rinaldo on the wing with Schenn & Simmonds.
- Jsaquella

I don't love the Knuble option. I think he is just out of gas. Sure he can chip in now and then, but I don't think he is an every game player anymore.

Couts has been really bad this season.
I'm not sure what to do with him, but whatever they are doing isn't going well.
I'd be open to try anything that would get him going and give him confidence for next season.

Talbot until the last three games has been a floater and not effective, except on the PK.

Rinaldo I agree with, he has been playing 110% every shift.

Shelley has 5 points in 89 games played as a player. He probably had 4 points in those two games against the Flyers at the end of the season. Those two games gave Holmgren the bright idea to give him a 3 year contract. What a (frank)ing waste of cap space, and contract slot. Good lord.
- PLindbergh31

See: Eminger, Steve re: 2007/2008 Eastern Conference Quarterfinals

In fairness, those TO teams were HORRIBLE, and he took Carolina to a Final and a Conference Championship a few years ago...

I just think if that was the case, hiring them on interim, there's no point right now. Keep Lavi, fire him at the end of the year if that's the plan and bring a new permanent coach.
- Flyers_V88

There's plenty of reason to make a coaching change now:

-Break the bad habits

-start the process of instilling discipline

-teach the younger players the importance of two way play

-get an idea who will thrive and who will not under a more disciplined structure and system.

Terry Murray was a NHL head coach for 15 years. In ten of those years, his team finished in the top ten in the NHL in goals scored. In 9 of those years his team was top 6 in goals scored.

You're incorrect about Murray's abilities as a coach. His history is one of being able to coach without being married to a system.
- Jsaquella

dude you just Richard slapped him

Murray's system is a truthful fact with truths. In truth, his system is in fact a system and is in fact true. You'll see, when they hire him that I'm right, because it's a fact that it's a true system, in fact.
- jmatchett

when did crack come back in style?

Terry Murray was a NHL head coach for 15 years. In ten of those years, his team finished in the top ten in the NHL in goals scored. In 9 of those years his team was top 6 in goals scored.

You're incorrect about Murray's abilities as a coach. His history is one of being able to coach without being married to a system.
- Jsaquella

Fair, but how many of those are recently? None. How many of those are post-lockout? None. How many times have his teams reached the playoffs post-lockout? Virtually none.

Your point is valid pre-2005.... I respect your opinion, but I just don't see it the way you do. The game has changed a lot, and those coaches and their effectiveness is dimished greatly with the speed and PPs in today's game.

I don't love the Knuble option. I think he is just out of gas. Sure he can chip in now and then, but I don't think he is an every game player anymore.

Couts has been really bad this season.
I'm not sure what to do with him, but whatever they are doing isn't going well.
I'd be open to try anything that would get him going and give him confidence for next season.

Talbot until the last three games has been a floater and not effective, except on the PK.

Rinaldo I agree with, he has been playing 110% every shift.
- Marc D

Rinaldo looks like he imparted his energy to Talbot the last few games. The two of them have looked very good in a season with few bright spots.

I don't love the Knuble option. I think he is just out of gas. Sure he can chip in now and then, but I don't think he is an every game player anymore.

Couts has been really bad this season.
I'm not sure what to do with him, but whatever they are doing isn't going well.
I'd be open to try anything that would get him going and give him confidence for next season.

Talbot until the last three games has been a floater and not effective, except on the PK.

Rinaldo I agree with, he has been playing 110% every shift.
- Marc D

I don't love the Knuble option, either. But Briere has been worthless. Id rather see Knuble than Briere. I'd like to see Couturier placed in a more scoring line role, tell him to just go out and play and not have him worried about being benched as soon as he has a turnover.

I don't love the Knuble option. I think he is just out of gas. Sure he can chip in now and then, but I don't think he is an every game player anymore.

Couts has been really bad this season.
I'm not sure what to do with him, but whatever they are doing isn't going well.
I'd be open to try anything that would get him going and give him confidence for next season.

Talbot until the last three games has been a floater and not effective, except on the PK.

Rinaldo I agree with, he has been playing 110% every shift.
- Marc D

I don't have all of the answers. But I'd be willing to try these:

Read-Giroux=Voracek
Simmonds-Schenn-Hartnell
Talbot-Couturier-Rinaldo
Knuble-Fedotenko-Harry Z

First line is all guys who can both pass and score (despite any recent struggles)
Second line has some skill and some size, but is relativelyslow on the wings.
Third line is a checking shutdown line that can chip in.
Fourth line is basically the spare parts you have and a guy who can kill penalties.
The the press box with Briere.

Fair, but how many of those are recently? None. How many of those are post-lockout? None. How many times have his teams reached the playoffs post-lockout? Virtually none.

Your point is valid pre-2005.... I respect your opinion, but I just don't see it the way you do. The game has changed a lot, and those coaches and their effectiveness is dimished greatly with the speed and PPs in today's game.
- Flyers_V88

http://www.nhl.com/ice/te...meType=2&viewName=summary

10th in scoring in 2010-11

http://www.nhl.com/ice/te...meType=2&viewName=summary
9th in scoring in 2009-10

Pre-lockout only if you count the 2012-13 one.

People crying about Murray taking over for the remainder of the season is interesting to me. His teams always made the playoffs here and they usually got to at least the second round. Furthermore when he was here the biggest gripe was he couldn't beat the devils. With this coach he can't beat the debs rags, bruins, lightning and this year the penguins. But lets hold onto him.

The only human being who has gotten more mileage out of a one game hockey performance than Jody Shelley might be Mike Eruzione.
- johndewar

homer blew out of the gate to sign shelley almost as much as he did for leighton...