Why? This team isnt going anywhere. I'll worry about that in the offseason.
- stveshdy

I would offer sheet Pietrangelo and cross my fingers.

Listen I've alway liked Coburn and usually stick up for him. My eyes, my brain can't take any more flubbed one timers, shots sailing 10 ft. wide and high. I can't do it anymore.
- Just5

Not impressed with his game. Too inconsistant for my liking. I don't expect him to be perfect but it seems he has had more bad games then good ones.

Not impressed with his game. Too inconsistant for my liking. I don't expect him to be perfect but it seems he has had more bad games then good ones.
- stveshdy

Have you guys noticed it's almost coincided with his equipment change, more specifically the sticks he's using now?

I noticed he used to use the Easton SE19 stick, and then switched to the Easton Stealth RS (the black and yellow one).

Now I'm not implying that's it's entirely the stick's fault LOL, but I've noticed his shot and accuracy are HORRIBLE with it. He even appears to have switched his blade pattern too, to a more squared blade, as opposed to the more rounded one he used before with the SE19. Anyone else notice this?

Have you guys noticed it's almost coincided with his equipment change, more specifically the sticks he's using now?

I noticed he used to use the Easton SE19 stick, and then switched to the Easton Stealth RS (the black and yellow one).

Now I'm not implying that's it's entirely the stick's fault LOL, but I've noticed his shot and accuracy are HORRIBLE with it. He even appears to have switched his blade pattern too, to a more squared blade, as opposed to the more rounded one he used before with the SE19. Anyone else notice this?
- Flyers_V88

Only thing I've noticed is Coburn getting lost in his own end and not picking up anybody.

Wednesday general managers meeting... 7 hours for homer to make deals

Why? This team isnt going anywhere. I'll worry about that in the offseason.
- stveshdy

That's my point. Right now, you can trade Coburn for picks and fill in with Gustafsson/Manning/etc. as place holders. But you'd better have a plan and backup plans for offseason acquisitions without depleting other areas of the roster (unless you have a plan and several backups to fill those spots).

I would offer sheet Pietrangelo and cross my fingers.
- Just5

While St. Louis is a smaller market team, they have a ton of cap room. I'd rather try to blow them away (probably STARTING with Read, Coburn, and your 1st) with a trade, not even giving them a chance to resign him.

That's my point. Right now, you can trade Coburn for picks and fill in with Gustafsson/Manning/etc. as place holders. But you'd better have a plan and backup plans for offseason acquisitions without depleting other areas of the roster (unless you have a plan and several backups to fill those spots).
- jmatchett

Flyers never filled the void of Matt Carle or Pronger. There are plenty of UFA's who can play 18 minutes a night. Coburn isnt exactly lighting the world on fire. He has been terrible this year.

Problem is some of these Flyers are overrated (IMO).

Flyers never filled the void of Matt Carle or Pronger. There are plenty of UFA's who can play 18 minutes a night. Coburn isnt exactly lighting the world on fire. He has been terrible this year.

Problem is some of these Flyers are overrated (IMO).
- stveshdy

Not filling the void left by those two defensemen is an even more compelling argument for why you better have a darn good plan to replace Coburn. Jettisoning him means you have three NHL caliber voids left on the blueline, in a league where defensemen command a significant premium. The UFA crop doesn't exactly blow my mind.

Not filling the void left by those two defensemen is an even more compelling argument for why you better have a darn good plan to replace Coburn. Jettisoning him means you have three NHL caliber voids left on the blueline, in a league where defensemen command a significant premium. The UFA crop doesn't exactly blow my mind.
- BulliesPhan87

Exactly. When we lost Pronger, the plan was to get Weber, which didn't happen. So Homer panicked, lost Carle (thanks partially to the Wideman deal), and struck out on Suter. After that, his option was to deal from a position of weakness or take the scraps, which is how we ended up with guys like Foster. If Coburn walks, you have:

Timonen (for a year) - Schenn
Meszaros - ???
Grossmann - ???

And that puts a lot of pressure on Meszaros to step up in minutes/production. Not sure how comfortable I am. So yes, you'd better have a set of amazing plans to fill AT LEAST one of those spots with a minutes-eating defenseman, keeping in mind that you're also losing Timonen in a year's time.

So please, how are we filling these gaps without further depleting our roster? Or, if we ARE depleting the roster, who is going to fill the newly-created gaps?

Not filling the void left by those two defensemen is an even more compelling argument for why you better have a darn good plan to replace Coburn. Jettisoning him means you have three NHL caliber voids left on the blueline, in a league where defensemen command a significant premium. The UFA crop doesn't exactly blow my mind.
- BulliesPhan87

I honestly think you can grab an UFA this summer that can give you what Coburn does. I'm not saying he isn't a good player but I think the idea of him not being able to be replaced wouldn't be true.

The Flyers didnt replace Carle b/c they went after Suter and Weber. They could of just re-signed Carle but decided not to.

I rather have the picks/prospect for Coburn and get another defenseman in the offseason. Build from your farm system. Something this team needs to do more of.

(We've heard about who replaces the scoring of Richards and Carter. The team found a way. Have to be smart about what you do.)

There's also the argument that the evolution of systems at the pro level has created a demand for ever faster, ever smarter, more fit, more puck-capable players, which has affected the way players are being trained and developed at the youth level.

There's much less room in the game today for goons who can't keep up, dmen who can't move the puck, goalies who can't max the percentages, and coaches who aren't x's and o's proficient.

Systems evolve, players evolve, equipment evolves, fitness evolves, medicine evolves, rules evolve, the business of the game evolves -- they're all interwoven and interdependent -- there's no separating the evolution of one from the others.


- Tomahawk

The speed of the game has certainly evolved. Players are bigger, faster and stronger. Equipment has gotten better. All of which is a completely different conversation. And they are separate in their evolution. Teams are using the same systems that have been around for decades, regardless of those advances.

So the 1-2-2 was perfect at its inception back in the 50's?

I really don't think Lemaire and subsequent trap-adopters were content to just lift their game plans out of the pages of history and leave it at that. No, they distilled, tweaked, honed the basic principles of the 1-2-2 to suit their unique conditions and requirements. Subsequent coaches built on top of their advances. Is that not the very definition of evolution?

Now, set aside the 1-2-2 for a second...

Look at the way modern teams craft their systems around shot blocking, around puck-movement, entering the zone with possession, regrouping in the neutral zone, players constantly switching positions on the ice... those are undeniable steps forward in the way the game is structured. Those things are only possible today because of advances that couldn't have been imagined in the 50's and 70's -- composite sticks, advances in player protection, European tactics, the butterfly style, modern rink construction... those were unimaginable back in the day and have fundamentally altered the way that coaches and players approach and plan for games.
- Tomahawk

There's a reason why teams still use the 1-2-2 neutral zone trap. It still works. And teams still have trouble generating offense against. Which is why teams use it, especially late in games with a lead.
The Rangers are one of the best shot blocking teams in the League. They collapse all 5 defenders around the net, keep the puck to the outside, and challenge you to get the puck to the net. Hardly a revolutionary, modern day strategy
The Soviet Red Army team played a puck possession style with regrouping in the neutral zone, versus dumping the puck in,back in the 60's and 70's. Again hardly revolutionary.
Goalies playing the butterfly style is a player technique, not a Hockey system.
Watch the Flyers #1 PP unit. They play an Overload formation. And sometimes move into an Umbrella formation. Not exactly a 21st Century tactic. Been around forever.

While St. Louis is a smaller market team, they have a ton of cap room. I'd rather try to blow them away (probably STARTING with Read, Coburn, and your 1st) with a trade, not even giving them a chance to resign him.
- jmatchett

And after they stop laughing add hartnell and cooter...

And after they stop laughing add hartnell and cooter...
- SMS4016

I think the Flyers have ZERO chance at landing Pietrangelo.

I honestly think you can grab an UFA this summer that can give you what Coburn does. I'm not saying he isn't a good player but I think the idea of him not being able to be replaced wouldn't be true.

The Flyers didnt replace Carle b/c they went after Suter and Weber. They could of just re-signed Carle but decided not to.

I rather have the picks/prospect for Coburn and get another defenseman in the offseason. Build from your farm system. Something this team needs to do more of.

(We've heard about who replaces the scoring of Richards and Carter. The team found a way. Have to be smart about what you do.)
- stveshdy

I think that's really the issue. Who are they going to get to replace him? You're basically saying just get rid of him and get someone else. Whoever? I agree with what others are saying. Better get a guy capable of playing 20 minutes a night, and playing well. Or an already short defense is even shorter. Coburn hasn't played well. But he is capable of playing much better.

I think that's really the issue. Who are they going to get to replace him? You're basically saying just get rid of him and get someone else. Whoever? I agree with what others are saying. Better get a guy capable of playing 20 minutes a night, and playing well. Or an already short defense is even shorter. Coburn hasn't played well. But he is capable of playing much better.
- MJL

I feel like we hear this line a lot with him. I think its also not fair to say he better be replaced without knowing who can step in and play this style of hockey. Sometimes the name doesnt matter but more of how they fit in.

Trading Coburn and getting back pieces is something that can benefit the team in the future. I don't see this team winning a cup next year either. Thats just me though.

I think the Flyers have ZERO chance at landing Pietrangelo.
- stveshdy

You could offer sheet Pietrangelo to a huge deal, which they would likely match, and then offer sheet Shattenkirk and tie their hands.

That would be pretty hilarious to see actually.

You could offer sheet Pietrangelo to a huge deal, which they would likely match, and then offer sheet Shattenkirk.

That would be pretty hilarious to see actually.
- hereticpride

Not sure if the Flyers are willing to do that.

I would offer sheet Pietrangelo and cross my fingers.
- Just5

St. Louis would never ever ever ever ever let Pietrangelo go for anything less than $12M a year. They have a ton of RFA, but he is priority #1. He has to be. He's a top 3 defenseman in the league, and he just turned 23.

That said, they are a budgeted team, and have a ton of RFA to re-sign. If you're going to make a play for one of their defensemen, you could probably make a trade for Shattenkirk. It would have to involve some fairly big pieces, but you wouldn't blow your cap 12 months before Schenn, Couturier, and Giroux need raises, and you probably wouldn't need to include any of them either. Shattenkirk reminds me so much of Eric Desjardins. He'd be a great fit on this team.

You could offer sheet Pietrangelo to a huge deal, which they would likely match, and then offer sheet Shattenkirk.

That would be pretty hilarious to see actually.
- hereticpride

Sharks did it with Hjalmarsson to get Niemi in 2010. Different circumstances in that they didn't offer sheet Niemi, but the offer sheet to Hjalmarsson made Niemi's arbitration much more difficult to swallow for the Hawks' FO.

I feel like we hear this line a lot with him. I think its also not fair to say he better be replaced without knowing who can step in and play this style of hockey. Sometimes the name doesnt matter but more of how they fit in.

Trading Coburn and getting back pieces is something that can benefit the team in the future. I don't see this team winning a cup next year either. Thats just me though.
- stveshdy

But losing a defenseman such as Coburn can also hurt the team in the future, if he's not adequately replaced. I think that's the point to make. Why do you trade a player? To make the team better. Or do you want to trade him just to trade him? If we knew what those pieces are, we'd be in a better position to judge a move like that.
Bottom line is that even though he has not had a good year. He is still a big defenseman, who can play a physical brand of defensive hockey. And has good wheels. And is still fairly young.

But losing a defenseman such as Coburn can also hurt the team in the future, if he's not adequately replaced. I think that's the point to make. Why do you trade a player? To make the team better. Or do you want to trade him just to trade him? If we knew what those pieces are, we'd be in a better position to judge a move like that.
Bottom line is that even though he has not had a good year. He is still a big defenseman, who can play a physical brand of defensive hockey. And has good wheels. And is still fairly young.
- MJL

Don't have to agree with my opinion but I'm not sold on the player. I think the Flyers could get back a younger defenseman and a pick for Coburn. A lot depends on the offer they receive.

You can also trade a player to make your team better for the future also.

But losing a defenseman such as Coburn can also hurt the team in the future, if he's not adequately replaced. I think that's the point to make. Why do you trade a player? To make the team better. Or do you want to trade him just to trade him? If we knew what those pieces are, we'd be in a better position to judge a move like that.
Bottom line is that even though he has not had a good year. He is still a big defenseman, who can play a physical brand of defensive hockey. And has good wheels. And is still fairly young.
- MJL

If Meszy could stay healthy I'd say move Coburn as Meszy is probably one of the most talented 3rd pairing guys in the league... but yeah, he just cant seem to stay healthy. Have to hold onto Coburn for now. Don't forget people, we have to replace Timonen in a year too.

Don't have to agree with my opinion but I'm not sold on the player. I think the Flyers could get back a younger defenseman and a pick for Coburn. A lot depends on the offer they receive.

You can also trade a player to make your team better for the future also.
- stveshdy

Im with you. I think its really evident the team needs a culture change toward players who bring far more consistency to their games.

I am not saying that it is all on him, but coburn's career quite frankly has been a direct reflection of how the team has played ever since he joined the club from Atlanta. Inconsistent as hell. Personally I am quite tired of having to wonder how one of your top 3 d-men will play on a given night. If he will be a monster or absolutely brutal.

Quite honestly it is hard to replace d-men this day and age. At the same time I think one of the biggest lessons this team could learn aside from detail in the defensive zone is bringing consistency most nights. Its what makes the better teams of the league, the better teams.

As an example, you could probably target a guy like Murray, and be able to sign him for 4.5 million (Coburn's salary). If you wanted to that is. I am not really trying to rip the guy, but if the team is looking at moving in the right direction, and building a strong consistent identity I look really hard at a replacement for Coburn. He has had some good moments here, but I think its time to move on. He is not that young pup any more, he should be in the prime of his career.

Don't have to agree with my opinion but I'm not sold on the player. I think the Flyers could get back a younger defenseman and a pick for Coburn. A lot depends on the offer they receive.

You can also trade a player to make your team better for the future also.
- stveshdy

You certainly can. But good defenseman, especially young ones are at a premium. I'm sure Coburn has value around the League. All anyone myself included, is that there better be a plan to replace him. He's still a high minute defenseman on this team.