Again, go back to my posts if you wish to see why I would be looking at trading Coburn.

You are correct though, I despise the man at his core. He has stolen my wife, raised my children to be Bieber fans and drank the last bit of milk I had in my house. His play on the ice is what makes me talk about trading him, not my personal emotions.
- flyer_nutter

I read all you're posts. You think he's inconsistent, and clearly you don't like him. Just pulling names out of a hat for a replacement. Coburn has had a rough Season. But he has shown he can be much better. And I'm not going to trade him just to trade him. Which is pretty much what you want to do.

Which team is that?
- MJL

Look at last years two teams that played for the Cup. Those defense's top three pairings on paper were not as good as the Flyers IMO.

Pipstein is a jerk and Bugsby sells child porn
- Jsaquella

Disagree.

The trouble is, if you dump Coburn, you have to replace him. Can Meszaros do that? It's questionable to say the least. He's had the same kind of consistency troubles that Coburn's had, plus he's got injury questions surrounding him now.

It's the same thing with Carle. People hated him last year, but this year everyone sees how much they miss him. Well, most people feel they miss him anyhow.
- Jsaquella

You can collectively replace what Coburn brings, which honestly how much is that? Yes he has good moments, but do you honestly ever know how he will play a given night? Thats the kind of thing this team has to ship out.

Examples of how to collectively replace what Coburn brings would be to bring in a veteran like Murray and a younger guy for that 3rd pairing. Or a guy like Giordano who fills other needs. Or spending a little more on Voynov or Leddy.

To simply ignore the notion (not saying you are doing)that there may be real better replacements for Coburn, that the team should look hard at exploring, and defending him to no end, like every other damn player, just shows a trend of blind entrenched homerism.

Common sense tells you Coburn is better than Murray. However, Murray isnt the only player being added in moving Coburn.

Like I said the team may not be better the next day but it could be better in the future when making the deal.
- stveshdy

That's fine, but so far the discussion is to dump Coburn, and add Rundblad and Murray.

If that's what ends up happening, then I see the defense being possibly weaker. I'm not against moving Coburn, I'm against doing it and not filling the hole or assuming that Meszaros can do it.

Coburn would get a great haul. A 1st rounder and maybe +. It is absolutely worth doing and you can't be afraid of being unable to fill the hole in the lineup in April.
- Just5

People would not have traded Carter or Richards for their current deals at the time.

This is starting to border on blind homerism, that no player on the team can do no wrong, or should ever be traded. Or even to have it be talked about. Its funny, because many have said that Murray is not the only option.
- flyer_nutter

There isn't a single person that has said that no player should ever be traded. What I'm against is trade Coburn. Why, because it's time for him to go. Then who is going to replace him? I don't know, let me pull a name out of a hat. How about Doug Murray? That's the jist of it.

That's fine, but so far the discussion is to dump Coburn, and add Rundblad and Murray.

If that's what ends up happening, then I see the defense being possibly weaker. I'm not against moving Coburn, I'm against doing it and not filling the hole or assuming that Meszaros can do it.
- Jsaquella

The defense may be weaker but it could get stronger down the road with the additions you get for Coburn. I dont know if Mez can fill the void or if the other additions can. If we knew that for sure, I would play the lottery.

Look at last years two teams that played for the Cup. Those defense's top three pairings on paper were not as good as the Flyers IMO.
- stveshdy

But what else did they have? They had a solid team game in front of them. And were solid through all 6. And I would disagree that LA's defense wasn't better on paper then the Flyers was last year.

Bobrovsky smacking Holmgren around again tonight. Mopping the floor with him.

I have a Russian friend I asked him for the English translation for Bobrovsky, he said it means sharp.

But what else did they have? They had a solid team game in front of them. And were solid through all 6. And I would disagree that LA's defense wasn't better on paper then the Flyers was last year.
- MJL

You have a different opinion. I know LA doesnt spend as much on their defensive core last year.

Bobrovsky smacking Holmgren around again tonight. Mopping the floor with him.

I have a Russian friend I asked him for the English translation for Bobrovsky, he said it means sharp.
- PLindbergh31

Bobrovsky smacking Holmgren around again tonight. Mopping the floor with him.

I have a Russian friend I asked him for the English translation for Bobrovsky, he said it means sharp.
- PLindbergh31

saw you test this one out in the Rags thread the other day. Guess you thought it was ready for the big stage?

You can collectively replace what Coburn brings, which honestly how much is that? Yes he has good moments, but do you honestly ever know how he will play a given night? Thats the kind of thing this team has to ship out.

Examples of how to collectively replace what Coburn brings would be to bring in a veteran like Murray and a younger guy for that 3rd pairing. Or a guy like Giordano who fills other needs. Or spending a little more on Voynov or Leddy.

To simply ignore the notion (not saying you are doing)that there may be real better replacements for Coburn, that the team should look hard at exploring, and defending him to no end, like every other damn player, just shows a trend of blind entrenched homerism.
- flyer_nutter

Not ignoring the notion that there may be real better replacements for Coburn. But clearly realizing the key word in that phrase. Which is maybe! That's the whole point. You're ignoring the notion that you could get worse.

Bobrovsky smacking Holmgren around again tonight. Mopping the floor with him.

I have a Russian friend I asked him for the English translation for Bobrovsky, he said it means sharp.
- PLindbergh31

Adirondack Phantoms ‏@PhantomsHockey 44m
Lilja called for hooking with 6:24 left in the 1st - ADK 1 NOR 0

Adirondack Phantoms ‏@PhantomsHockey 7m
Lilja takes a boarding penalty #PKTime with 15:38 left in the 2nd - ADK 1 NOR 0

This guy is a (frank)ing bum in the minors too. Good thing he got that second year.

Not ignoring the notion that there may be real better replacements for Coburn. But clearly realizing the key word in that phrase. Which is maybe! That's the whole point. You're ignoring the notion that you could get worse.
- MJL

There is a chance you get worse. Also a chance you get much better in the future with the additions of prospects and picks.

What's your take on the Bobrvosky trade at the moment? Is that a horrendous move?

As he is posting the second best save % in the League, while the Flyers have some project toiling in the minor leagues...
- PLindbergh31

Haven't thought about it. I could really care less about what Bobrovsky is doing.

That's fine, but so far the discussion is to dump Coburn, and add Rundblad and Murray.

If that's what ends up happening, then I see the defense being possibly weaker. I'm not against moving Coburn, I'm against doing it and not filling the hole or assuming that Meszaros can do it.
- Jsaquella

Assuming what the Flyers gave up for Kubina, they could get some decent picks for Coburn. Or to wait and trade him in the summer as part of a larger deal.

In the larger picture, Coburn is a guy I would look real hard at trading. Thats the point here. That is due to his inability to be consistent, and his career has shown it. For what he is paid, for apparently being in the prime of his career, and an experienced NHL'er, for not knowing how he will play any given night is why I would look real hard at trading him. Its about the larger picture of getting this team to have a better identity. Closer to what Pronger, Lappy and Jagr brought. On a team that is struggling to find consistency, I replace Coburn with guys who better fill that identity.

That may not happen in a day. In the end it will have to be through the draft. There are risks with having Meszaros, Murray and Rundblad definately, and that is not the only option either.

Haven't thought about it. I could really care less about what Bobrovsky is doing.
- MJL

He's got that great Columbus team game in front of him.

You can collectively replace what Coburn brings, which honestly how much is that? Yes he has good moments, but do you honestly ever know how he will play a given night? Thats the kind of thing this team has to ship out.

Examples of how to collectively replace what Coburn brings would be to bring in a veteran like Murray and a younger guy for that 3rd pairing. Or a guy like Giordano who fills other needs. Or spending a little more on Voynov or Leddy.

To simply ignore the notion (not saying you are doing)that there may be real better replacements for Coburn, that the team should look hard at exploring, and defending him to no end, like every other damn player, just shows a trend of blind entrenched homerism.
- flyer_nutter

That's fine. What do these other players cost? Voynov and Leddy are going to be expensive to acquire. Giordano is probably not going to be cheap, either. That offsets the assets acquired in a Coburn trade, if it doesn't cost more.

It has nothing to do with homerism, it has to do with making sure that you're making smart, well thought out decisions, rather than creating a hole out of a personal distaste for a particular player.

You didn think it was a good move to trade Carter and Richards. So why trading Coburn any different?

They can move Coburn and still get better in the future. Doesnt have to be instantly.
- stveshdy

I'll correct you. I said I would not have traded Richards and Carter. I liked the return from the beginning. And if you're trading a top minute key defenseman, it pretty much has to be instantly. You don't trade Coburn for picks or prospects unless you're dam sure you can replace him.

He's got that great Columbus team game in front of him.
- PLindbergh31

saw you test this one out in the Rags thread the other day. Guess you thought it was ready for the big stage?
- Crimsoninja

I didn't use the same verbage... I altered it.

The trouble is, if you dump Coburn, you have to replace him. Can Meszaros do that? It's questionable to say the least. He's had the same kind of consistency troubles that Coburn's had, plus he's got injury questions surrounding him now.

It's the same thing with Carle. People hated him last year, but this year everyone sees how much they miss him. Well, most people feel they miss him anyhow.
- Jsaquella

i can't speak for everyone (and i've missed much of this discussion) but i've brought up trading coburn before, so i'll offer my take

at least for me, i'd be going into a coburn trade with the knowledge that the d corp will almost certainly be weaker next season (and maybe for the short term beyond). but the flyers are a last place team with cap woes and the worst (or at least close) farm system in the league. a few steps backward may be necessary to get the team moving forward. and i feel he could be the type of veteran player that could bring back a nice haul of young assets

if all that's offered is a 2nd or middling prospects, however, by all means stick with coburn