And farting near an adversary

- philco28

Yeah but no one ever admits it was them!

I was where you are two seasons ago..there is a change in the paradign... in my humble opinion, and in some of the brightest minds coaching and even inside the short past ex-players circles, that having more scorers, all around quickness, and a desire to play fearless now out-weigh the old paradign of big physical guys being dressed over smaller better skilled guys.

If you are able to have both, like drafting a second round Saad, and if he develops into a scorer, then great.

But you cannot load up on Winnicks, Shaubitz, and Steckels at the cost of skill.

Fortunately when skill comes in a big package that plays fast Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan, you get both....

Really well said.

You cannot make it appear...Frolik & Kruger cannot get thicker by much.
- wiz1901

That one hit won the Cup? I hadn't known...
- mohel

The point is, as you know, Detroit had some very big hitters over the years. And in Stuart and Kronwall, two guys who would just destroy people. The Hawks don't.

Yeah but no one ever admits it was them!
- paulr

I do my best to manufacture 'plausible deniability'.

John Jaeckel: No Excuses
- John Jaeckel

I've only read your blog--not the comments. 100% spot on. Well said.

No doubt but my point is that the blog and the tone of the comments in here make it seem as if the Hawks were not worthy of even being on the same sheet of ice with the Ducks. The great and powerful Ducks.
- Blackwater13

"Sure, but they are 0-1-1 versus their chief Western rivals, Anaheim.

And Anaheim, dare I say it, looks like the better team. Now that's not a guarantee that the Hawks lose a 7-game series to the Ducks. But it is a warning—they sure don't look like a lead pipe lock to do so either."

Try again, what's your point?

The point is, as you know, Detroit had some very big hitters over the years. And in Stuart and Kronwall, two guys who would just destroy people. The Hawks don't.
- John Jaeckel

Those guys are good, but I think they won their Cups with speed and skill. They tried to get a whole roster full of fast and skilled players. When given the choice they would go for speed over size. That has been the Hawks plan, too. Guys that do both don't grow on trees, as Wiz pointed out. If we can get one, great. Question (an honest one) - do these bangers need to play on the top two lines? Seems most like our third like it is. If they play on the fourth, will they get enough time to make the impact you seek?

I do my best to manufacture 'plausible deniability'.
- philco28

And gas, apparently

Try again, what's your point?
- John Jaeckel

The sky isn't falling.

Those guys are good, but I think they won their Cups with speed and skill. They tried to get a whole roster full of fast and skilled players. When given the choice they would go for speed over size. That has been the Hawks plan, too. Guys that do both don't grow on trees, as Wiz pointed out. If we can get one, great. Question (an honest one) - do these bangers need to play on the top two lines? Seems most like our third like it is. If they play on the fourth, will they get enough time to make the impact you seek?
- mohel

No one is arguing that point! What JJ is trying to tell you is the complement of physical players and physical play allows those skill guys to operate and makes the other teams skill guys keep their heads up and hurry their game.

Sharp and Hossa out is a greater loss than Perry plus two guys out leads to more probelms with rotations...
Ducks above all are big and play a quick game....LA is big and skilled too....

The Hawks most likley won't have to go through both to get out of the West.

There is will be an addition, maybe two but don't expect a remodel and suddenly the Boston Bruins appear on the ice.

Today's article.....Blackhawks give one away late but can learn from loss to Anaheim - FOX Chicago: http://bit.ly/ZWzogb
- Al

I think this is a BIG part of the problem. With No Sharp and Hossa, the advantage that the Hawks have in being able to rotate 3 lines with not only the chance to score, but also be defensively responsible is gone. Very few teams can go 3 lines deep and 3 defensive pairings to match up, but that is all gone without Sharp and Hossa. Without them it becomes easier for the opposition to chase the matchup and shutdown Toews and/or Kanes line, with 3 full lines rolling it becomes advantage Hawks in at least one of the line matchups.

Those guys are good, but I think they won their Cups with speed and skill. They tried to get a whole roster full of fast and skilled players. When given the choice they would go for speed over size. That has been the Hawks plan, too. Guys that do both don't grow on trees, as Wiz pointed out. If we can get one, great. Question (an honest one) - do these bangers need to play on the top two lines? Seems most like our third like it is. If they play on the fourth, will they get enough time to make the impact you seek?
- mohel

I have said this over and over to many guys here: the speed and skill guys get room to operate because of the bangers. When the other team comes out and starts checking your guys through the boards, the speed and skill guys suddenly get a lot less aggressive and more tentative moving the puck up ice. Fact.

Sometimes, having a banger on a top line is a good thing. Ever notice how Brouwer and Byfuglien used to go in on a dump in, hit the d-man, separate him from the puck and then outlet it to Kane or Toews?

Unfortunately, a lot of teams will make the Hawks play that style of game, as much as the ice dancing crowd (and some Hawks) don't like it. And especially in the playoffs. That's WHY Q was trying Carcillo out there. Because he can do that. That's why Darryl Sutter used to play Probert with Savard and Murphy. Not to "protect" them, but to open up the ice for them.

Their forwards are going to come after your defensemen in a playoff series. Phoenix did it to the Hawks last year. Anaheim did it to them last night. THE HAWKS did it to Vancouver, Calgary, Philadelphia during those two long playoff runs.

I agree, the bangers need to be able to play. But not every guy (even on the top lines) necessarily should be a "pretty to watch" finesse player. It is a physical game, and on many important levels. The Hawks don't have enough of those "all-terrain" forwards as Wiz (himself) once coined it now some 20 years ago.

On this point, this is where those who use the term "meathead" really need to check themselves. They, in fact, don't know what they're talking about.

No one is arguing that point! What JJ is trying to tell you is the complement of physical players and physical play allows those skill guys to operate and makes the other teams skill guys keep their heads up and hurry their game.
- paulr

Exactly.

They can stay with the current line up and hope their physical guys step it up (I doudt it) or they can go out and get veteran help to put them over the top.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Fixed. Add Toews to that.
- John Jaeckel

>How does Hayes fit this paradigm?

The point is, as you know, Detroit had some very big hitters over the years. And in Stuart and Kronwall, two guys who would just destroy people. The Hawks don't.
- John Jaeckel

I'm not sure why you're taking this topic so personal, Mohel. Your sarcastic suggestion of a rebuild was way out there. No one is saying that. All that's being suggessted is that the Hawks may need to make some tweaks and bring in some grit. Sometimes players that can hit make the opposing team think twice when coming over the blue line. It's a big help come playoff time.

No one is arguing that point! What JJ is trying to tell you is the complement of physical players and physical play allows those skill guys to operate and makes the other teams skill guys keep their heads up and hurry their game.
- paulr

BINGO

>How does Hayes fit this paradigm?
- SnapitUpstairs

Not that skilled, not fast at all. Not instinctively a physical hockey player.

So . . . not really.

>How does Hayes fit this paradigm?
- SnapitUpstairs

Big man to get in front of the net, I think. Plus, Sharp and Hossa out, might as well reward the guy who is slaying numbers for the Hogs, you know?

The sky isn't falling.
- Blackwater13

No, I'm just saying, last night's game and maybe the other one versus Anaheim have exposed a weakness in the Hawks.

And are they that different a team from the one that went 6 and out versus Phoenix? No, not at all. What did Phoenix do? What Anaheim did last night.

So . . . they will probably win their division and have home ice in the playoffs, but the playoffs are a different animal. I don't care about winning the division, beyond getting home ice. Do you?

Big man to get in front of the net, I think. Plus, Sharp and Hossa out, might as well reward the guy who is slaying numbers for the Hogs, you know?
- Hank3Henshaw

He's good around the net. Yes.

So I've really only read three pages of this, but so far no one's mentioned the one big concern we all had at the beginning: Craw may be settling back in as a mediocre goalie... His reaction time is slow and is rather passive when it comes to fighting through screens.

Saad is not the savior, but he has earned every right to be on this team and is NOT the problem. Hayes and Mayers really are dead weight though. I can't tell who is slower out there...

I also wonder if Sharp's injury might be preventing Stanbo from making a good trade... Naa that giving him too much credit...

Meh . . . OK, but who's been better? really?
- John Jaeckel

Unclear in my opinion, and truly doesn't matter until the second season.

I'd love to see these two go at it in a 7 game series. Which I believe the Hawks would win.

Not that skilled, not fast at all. Not instinctively a physical hockey player.

So . . . not really.
- John Jaeckel

>Doesn't hit anybody either -- can't skate, can't hit, not that skilled
>WTF is he doing on this roster?

True Grit made a point earlier that is being relatively ignored. It isn't as though this is the first physical team the Hawks have faced this year. Why now is one loss such glaring evidence that a paradigm shift need take place?

What would the tone be today had the Hawks held on to win 2-1 or 3-1(EN)? Another good win against another bigger more physical opponent? Held off shaky start to control game late? Seriously.

Two bad plays = loss. Physical play was minimized early in the second.

I was told that the Team is trying to help Seabs as it might have gone "too far over the summer".
- Hawkswin

Absolutely not true