I disagree. Those were still full seasons, not some bastardized version of a season rushed into being with less than a full season of games and half-assed scheduling.
- Scoob

Scoob, a 48 game season brings on challenges of it own. The schedule is condensed, there is a lack of traing camp and practice time. If you go into a 10 game funk in a 48 game Season, that can knock you out of the playoffs. In an 82 game Season, you have a lot more time to come back and make up ground. The shortened Season doesn't lessen the accomplishment in any way.

Do people realize that the whole "asterisk" thing in sports was created by MLB commissioner Ford Frick, who idolized Babe Ruth and was determined to see the Bambino stay atop the home run charts.

There's no asterisk. None, it's stupid and MLB removed that asterisk itself years ago.

Why would you expect Timonen to struggle? The GM just signed him to a 6 million dollar contract for next year. Should we expect more struggles?
- PLindbergh31

I shouldnt have used the word struggle.. I didnt expect him to be an allstar again this year.. He was coming off of some injuries and what not. While Timonen hasnt been his usual self.. he hasnt been bad by any stretch of the imagination. He has 19 points in 30 games and is a +1 on a team that is nearly 95% minus.

To put it into perspective.. he is statistically having a better season than OEL, Pietrangelo, Weber and Big Buff... Literally the same stat line as Shattenkirk. His problem has been getting beat, and taking penalties.. which has increased this season.

The word "full" being a relative term. "Full" season compared to what? Last year? Who cares? Last year is over.

Many "last years" ago, 50 something games was a "full" season.

This year, 48 games happens to be a "full" season.
- johndewar

Please tell me you're not arguing that this year is a full season.

The point is, every team is on an even playing field. And you still have to win 4 best-of-seven rounds.
- jmatchett

Agreed.

If the NHL decided to adopt an 84-game season, or a 76-game season, does every one of those need an asterisk as well?
- jmatchett

No, because that new season length would be the norm requiring no special notation.

As for baseball records (or hockey records) comparing only statistics, differences in the amount of games warrants mention because it's across different years. As for your specific examples of Bonds and McGuire, they were straight-up cheating.
- jmatchett

Cheating, something out of the ordinary, like a 48 game season when the norm is 82?

This is such an odd debate to me.

I disagree. Those were still full seasons, not some bastardized version of a season rushed into being with less than a full season of games and half-assed scheduling.
- Scoob

Every team is playing 48 games. No team has an advantage over another in this regard.

Going back to the Maris, Ruth reference, Maris had an advantage over Ruth, therefore they gave him an asterisk. Some people want to give Barry Bonds an asterisk on the home run record because he allegedly had an advantage over Aaron.

Coburn's most common partners, at 5 on 5, have been Grossmann, Gervais and Schenn.

He's spent more time with Grossmann, but it hasn't been an exclusive a pairing as his past pairings with Timonen or even Grossmann last year.

I agree with the sentiment that all of the top 5 have been asked to shoulder more of a load, in terms of leadership, etc.

That said, in ice time, he's played a very similar number of minutes.
- Jsaquella

He's averaged 40 more seconds per game this year. With no Pronger, the Flyers failing to land Weber, coupled with Meszaros' injuries, and Schenn's youth, Coburn in theory is the # 2 dman on this team. He has performed terribly. He was expected to raise his game, and it's regressed exponentially.

Do people realize that the whole "asterisk" thing in sports was created by MLB commissioner Ford Frick, who idolized Babe Ruth and was determined to see the Bambino stay atop the home run charts.

There's no asterisk. None, it's stupid and MLB removed that asterisk itself years ago.
- Jsaquella

Could just be that he had a lousy season. It happens.
- Jsaquella

i agree with ya there.. my problem is that we have a handful of the same players.. guys who are generally shutdown guys that dont contribute too much offensively.. and if I had my choice.. out of Schenn Grossmann and Coburn... Coburn would be moved in a package to get a puck mover (POTENTIALLY MY OPINION, POTENTIALLY PACKAGED).

Scoob, a 48 game season brings on challenges of it own. The schedule is condensed, there is a lack of traing camp and practice time. If you go into a 10 game funk in a 48 game Season, that can knock you out of the playoffs. In an 82 game Season, you have a lot more time to come back and make up ground. The shortened Season doesn't lessen the accomplishment in any way.
- MJL

I never said it did. Nor did I say that in this shortened season all teams aren't in the same boat.

Imho, this is a shortened season, thus different, thus asterisked.

/topic for me

Please tell me you're not arguing that this year is a full season.
- Scoob

No. I'm arguing it's a 48 game schedule and that's all you're getting.

I'm not stressing or putting any special meaning to the word "full". That's from you, champ.

Do people realize that the whole "asterisk" thing in sports was created by MLB commissioner Ford Frick, who idolized Babe Ruth and was determined to see the Bambino stay atop the home run charts.

There's no asterisk. None, it's stupid and MLB removed that asterisk itself years ago.
- Jsaquella

You never addressed my point that the fact you know the Devils won during a shortened season is in fact a footnote, an "asterisk" in your head.

What I never argued was that it was less of an accomplishment.

Spot on Bill. Any chance we could see a blog that has your thoughts on who the Flyers could move as sellers @ the deadline and what assets they might obtain?

He's averaged 40 more seconds per game this year. With no Pronger, the Flyers failing to land Weber, coupled with Meszaros' injuries, and Schenn's youth, Coburn in theory is the # 2 dman on this team. He has performed terribly. He was expected to raise his game, and it's regressed exponentially.
- PLindbergh31

It has, but it doesn't make him worthless. Just means that he's a support player. He might be a bit expensive for a support player, but that's the breaks

I never said it did. Nor did I say that in this shortened season all teams aren't in the same boat.

Imho, this is a shortened season, thus different, thus asterisked.

/topic for me
- Scoob

Exactly! Why this is so (frank)ing hard for some people is (frank)ing amazing to me.

I shouldnt have used the word struggle.. I didnt expect him to be an allstar again this year.. He was coming off of some injuries and what not. While Timonen hasnt been his usual self.. he hasnt been bad by any stretch of the imagination. He has 19 points in 30 games and is a +1 on a team that is nearly 95% minus.

To put it into perspective.. he is statistically having a better season than OEL, Pietrangelo, Weber and Big Buff... Literally the same stat line as Shattenkirk. His problem has been getting beat, and taking penalties.. which has increased this season.
- jak521

Statistically Foster (+/- and ppg) is having a better season than Carle! I love it!

You never addressed my point that the fact you know the Devils won during a shortened season is in fact a footnote, an "asterisk" in your head.

What I never argued was that it was less of an accomplishment.
- wolfhounds

I don't put an asterisk on it in my head, If somebody asks me who won the Stanley Cup in 1995 I don't say The Devils, but it was a short year. The fact that it was a shortened season never even enters my mind unless it's a specific conversation about it being a short year.

Your original post on the topic seemed to suggest it is less of an achievement, as it was on the subject of this being a good year for the Flyers to suck and not win the Cup.

Exactly! Why this is so (frank)ing hard for some people is (frank)ing amazing to me.
- wolfhounds

Because there is no actual asterisk. You may want there to be one, but there isn't.

It has, but it doesn't make him worthless. Just means that he's a support player. He might be a bit expensive for a support player, but that's the breaks
- Jsaquella

Not worthless at all. He has to play much better is about the only solution.

Exactly! Why this is so (frank)ing hard for some people is (frank)ing amazing to me.
- wolfhounds

The thing is, each season is mutually exclusive from every other, IMO. Therefore, a single season is only relevant to that season and that season only. 2013's norm is 48 games. There is no 2013 season that is 82 games. Therefore, this is the norm.

That's how I view things at least but we can agree to disagree.

He's been playing with Grossmann for the most part. Who is an expereinced veteran defenseman, who is as good of a player as Coburn is. He's not being asked to carry a young inexperienced player. I asked you previously to expand on how he has taken on more responsibility.
- MJL

At the beginning of last season, he was playing with (a one-year younger) Kimmo Timonen on a second pairing. The top pairing were Chris Pronger and Matt Carle. They had the most minutes and were also used as PP points. Pronger also played the most PK and PP minutes of any defenseman. Coburn was expected to play about 22 minutes per game and chip in some points while playing a shutdown role.

At the beginning of this season, he was still playing on a shutdown role (now with Niklas Grossmann). However, it was also expected (maybe unjustly) that he would be able to contribute more offensively and spend some time helping the PP unit. As a more senior-level member of the blueline (due to Pronger's absence), he was basically asked to continue a shutdown role, but to contribute in other areas.

His PK time has gone up, but after a handful of games, he was largely removed from the PP because he was ineffective. His +/- of -11 is third worst on the team (his defense partner is a -1). He has 1 goal and 4 assists through 30 games (1 pt every 6 games) whereas he had 24 points in 81 games last year (1 point in every 3 games). I believe he's also leading the league in minor penalties. I'm sure there's a good way to spin this though.

He's averaged 40 more seconds per game this year. With no Pronger, the Flyers failing to land Weber, coupled with Meszaros' injuries, and Schenn's youth, Coburn in theory is the # 2 dman on this team. He has performed terribly. He was expected to raise his game, and it's regressed exponentially.
- PLindbergh31

His game in general has dropped pretty significantly over the past 3 season in regards to offensive production. This year he is pretty anemic offensively but we cannot overlook it because his defense (believe it or not) has been that much worse. -13 and leads the league in minors.

i agree with ya there.. my problem is that we have a handful of the same players.. guys who are generally shutdown guys that dont contribute too much offensively.. and if I had my choice.. out of Schenn Grossmann and Coburn... Coburn would be moved in a package to get a puck mover (POTENTIALLY MY OPINION, POTENTIALLY PACKAGED).
- jak521

I'm not against moving anyone, for enough of a return.

Others here have suggested getting a kid like Tyson Barrie. I gotta admit, that interests me a great deal.

Do people realize that the whole "asterisk" thing in sports was created by MLB commissioner Ford Frick, who idolized Babe Ruth and was determined to see the Bambino stay atop the home run charts.

There's no asterisk. None, it's stupid and MLB removed that asterisk itself years ago.
- Jsaquella

he fracked the record book up for yrs.

Statistically Foster (+/- and ppg) is having a better season than Carle! I love it!
- PLindbergh31

My point isnt that he is better than those players... but that his decline hasnt been as bad as some would like to believe.. again, he is one of a few players who are actually +.