we had the #2 pick last year and traded it? news to me
- FlyerMike18

say what now?

we had the #2 pick last year and traded it? news to me
- FlyerMike18

Im sure he was referancing JVR...Schenn i believe was a #4 pick? Anywho JVR is potting quite a few goals but he is also doing many off of garbage goals (rebounds etc) dont get me wrong a goal is a goal but he seems to be in much better position in Toronto good for him.

Most teams were soundly beat by the Devils except LA.
- stveshdy

The Panthers took them to game 7, with wins going back and forth. The Rangers took them to game 6, going back and forth until the last two. Neither was a sound pasting, like the Flyers dropping four straight nearly identical losses.

Most teams were soundly beat by the Devils except LA.
- stveshdy

So does that mean that the Flyers should just dismiss that they were soundly beaten by the Devils. And more importantly why they were. Because everyone else was also?

just talked to him, he's getting ready for gatineau rimouski. got his bourdon jersey on and all
- FlyerMike18

I think I'll go with that game to start, gives me time to pick an OHL game later.

The Panthers took them to game 7, with wins going back and forth. The Rangers took them to game 6, going back and forth until the last two. Neither was a sound pasting, like the Flyers dropping four straight nearly identical losses.
- BulliesPhan87

Makes you wonder what would have happend had Panthers advanced oh well...Doubt they would have taken a series with the Rags

And they have downshifted. It's been obvious.

Lavi receives the lion's share of the blame because he's the coach and, well, like they say, you can't fire the whole team. But the mistakes on the ice are too often attributed to him and that is grossly unfair unless one of us is at every practice or in the pre-game meetings when the game plans are laid out and are able to properly comment on the soundness of his strategies.

You can have a perfect blueprint coming out onto the ice, but if the players don't follow it correctly, stray away from their assignments, don't hustle to cover their responsibilities, take too many stupid untimely penalties, turnover the puck at inopportune times or make bad decisions leading to odd man rushes - all of which are not Lava's fault - then as a coach, what do you do?

You can sit all the lazy, inattentive players, there's been too many games that only a small handful of guys have showed up. It's tough to run out 1 and 1/2 lines every other shift, or only play three defensemen on any given game.
- 77rams

What points to it being obvious that they have downshifted to a more defensive posture? What systems changes have you seen on the ice that leads you to believe that?

Good, because they didn't break the bank for Luke Schenn. And every team needs some mix of stay at home defenders on the back end. Having all puck movers and finesse players on defense is just as bad.
- MJL

We still disagree on JVRs upside. And considering everyone says power forwards mature later he still has a couple years to reach his upside. So either way your argument suffers

If JVR reaches 1st line all star potential and Schenn is solid 3/4 stay at home dman then we either gave up the much better player and "lost" the trade or that is the cost of acquiring a dman, which suggests that you are better off drafting d.

Only way your argument holds is if JVR becomes an average, 2nd line winger which I don't see.

What points to it being obvious that they have downshifted to a more defensive posture? What systems changes have you seen on the ice that leads you to believe that?
- MJL

By watching the play, or at least what I can see of it watching the games on TV.

We still disagree on JVRs upside. And considering everyone says power forwards mature later he still has a couple years to reach his upside. So either way your argument suffers

If JVR reaches 1st line all star potential and Schenn is solid 3/4 stay at home dman then we either gave up the much better player and "lost" the trade or that is the cost of acquiring a dman, which suggests that you are better off drafting d.

Only way your argument holds is if JVR becomes an average, 2nd line winger which I don't see.
- TheGreat28

I haven't mentioned anything about JVR's upside. Young defenseman also take considerable time to mature. So how does my argument suffer? Are you saying that Luke Schenn has already reached his upside? He isn't still maturing as a player?
If JVR reaches 1st line all star potential. If being the key word. And what about Schenn's potential. Let's say JVR reaches 1st line status, and Luke Schenn reaches his potential of a first pair shut down defender. With your previous statements that defense is a more rare and valuable commodity. How would Toronto have gotten the better of the deal?
Bottom line is that you're predicting already who got the better of the deal, before it even plays out. I stated that it's premature to come to that conclusion.

By watching the play, or at least what I can see of it watching the games on TV.
- 77rams

With the exception of the one game against the Devils. The Flyers haven't changed much strategy wise and systems wise. We'll see what happens after this time off and the practice time they've been able to have.

With the exception of the one game against the Devils. The Flyers haven't changed much strategy wise and systems wise. We'll see what happens after this time off and the practice time they've been able to have.
- MJL

I believe they've tweaked the game plan more than slightly, but I agree, we should have a much better understanding of whether they've changed, or haven't changed, their approach after this last week's layoff.

I completely disagree that the Leafs won the JVR-Schenn deal.

I completely disagree that the Leafs won the JVR-Schenn deal.
- KGBflyers10

Not sure how anybody can make that call after such a short period of time. It's like judging who won free agency or a draft without giving it significant time to make that judgement

Not sure how anybody can make that call after such a short period of time. It's like judging who won free agency or a draft without giving it significant time to make that judgement
- ob18

Exactly. Way too early to make that call.

Exactly. Way too early to make that call.
- MJL

Give it at least 2 seasons, then it would be time for thoughts on how it has looked for each side.

So does that mean that the Flyers should just dismiss that they were soundly beaten by the Devils. And more importantly why they were. Because everyone else was also?
- MJL

Things change year to year. What is their record verse the Devils since Lavi being hired?

Things change year to year. What is their record verse the Devils since Lavi being hired?
- stveshdy

I have no idea, but it can't be good.

I have no idea, but it can't be good.
- MJL

Sometimes you just match up better against other teams. Flyers have handled Pittsburgh. Yet struggle with the Rags and Devils.

I think the Flyers would be wise to stay the course with the coach and GM. Lets give it another year before deciding the next step.

Sometimes you just match up better against other teams. Flyers have handled Pittsburgh. Yet struggle with the Rags and Devils.

I think the Flyers would be wise to stay the course with the coach and GM. Lets give it another year before deciding the next step.
- stveshdy

They handled Pittsburgh when they've played an undisciplined game and willing to play River Hockey with the Flyers. The last game against the Pens, it seems as thought the Pens learned their lesson. We'll see what happens Sunday.

I have no problems with your last point. It's reasonable. It's not what I would do. But that doesn't really matter.

Things change year to year. What is their record verse the Devils since Lavi being hired?
- stveshdy

2009-10: 3-0-0 in regular season, beat NJ in five games in 1st round of playoffs.

2010-11: 3-2-1

2011-12: 3-2-1 in regular season, lost to NJ in five games in 2nd round of playoffs.

2013 to date: 1-3-0

TOTAL (excluding playoffs): 10-7-2
TOTAL (including playoffs): 15-11-2

2009-10: 3-0-0 in regular season, beat NJ in five games in 1st round of playoffs.

2010-11: 3-2-1

2011-12: 3-2-1 in regular season, lost to NJ in five games in 2nd round of playoffs.

2013 to date: 1-3-0

TOTAL (excluding playoffs): 10-7-2
TOTAL (including playoffs): 15-11-2
- bmeltzer

dammit

but i have 10-8-2 (3-1 in 2009-2010....4-1 loss on 12/12/09)

2009-10: 3-0-0 in regular season, beat NJ in five games in 1st round of playoffs.

2010-11: 3-2-1

2011-12: 3-2-1 in regular season, lost to NJ in five games in 2nd round of playoffs.

2013 to date: 1-3-0

TOTAL (excluding playoffs): 10-7-2
TOTAL (including playoffs): 15-11-2
- bmeltzer

Thanks Bill. Flyers have done well with Lavi then since being hired.

Thanks Bill. Flyers have done well with Lavi then since being hired.
- stveshdy

Since last Season, including the playoffs. The Flyers have won 4 and lost 10 to the Devils. Not the exact record since I counted shootouts as a win or loss.

dammit

but i have 10-8-2 (3-1 in 2009-2010....4-1 loss on 12/12/09)
- FlyerMike18

You are correct. Stevens was fired and Laviolette hired on 12/4/09.