agreed. i'm not giving up on homer or the kids yet though. no matter how bad this is, one (shortened) season isn't enough to convince me that they need to totally nuke the whole thing
- FlyerMike18

agreed. Hell, we wouldn't even HAVE the young talent and (theoretically) bright future if not for Homer.

Fire Lavy asap ... and move the vets. Get a coach in here who can teach some fundamentally sound defensive hockey and that bright future will soon be back on track.

Looked more like a simple lift and sweep of the stick since he was diving and reaching out. Of course, the ref was almost tripped up, too, so maybe he didn't get to see what you saw?
- Flyskippy

Whose on third?

agreed. i'm not giving up on homer or the kids yet though. no matter how bad this is, one (shortened) season isn't enough to convince me that they need to totally nuke the whole thing
- FlyerMike18

absolutely
a few tweaks and holes to fill
i really hope there is no overreaction from them

They need a culture change, from top to bottom, and quite honestly they failed at it big time, or didnt complete it fully when they sent out Richards/Carter, and said they wanted a culture change.

This team used to be respected first and foremost for its hard work and hard nose style of play.
- flyer_nutter

I think trading away the members of the old city crew, and watching the problems still lingering, proves that they weren't the main problem.

Only problem is Lavi isnt giving him the minutes. Thats not going to help the kid b/c he has no confidence right now. He isnt playing that well in his own end either.
- stveshdy

Even if Lavy is in the tams long range plans he needs to do what's best for the teams future. Homer's job to stress that point.

I hope not.

Why shouldn't he have to suffer the rest of the season out like we will?
- 77rams

lmao

agreed. i'm not giving up on homer or the kids yet though. no matter how bad this is, one (shortened) season isn't enough to convince me that they need to totally nuke the whole thing
- FlyerMike18

If I didn't lay blame for the ever changing mindset on Snider, plus Holmgren having to follow certain things being dictated to him, I'd call for his head, too.

Can Luukko and Holmgren go to Snider and lay it out for him-leave us alone for a couple years, let us build this thing right, no dictating to us to get rid of this guy or get a goalie at all costs-and we can turn this foundation into a good team?

They waited on the 3 guys I listed, especially Marshall and Bartulis. They just were never good enough. I mean, after a year or 2 in the AHL, if a guy isn't improving, he's not going to improve. I think this whole thing with lack of patience with youth is overblown and is a relic from 5-7+ years ago
- eayost

Comes down to scouting to me, where I felt the Flyers have lacked.

All the talk about drafting good forwards, but thats horsepoop. They need to draft throughout.

Not saying he wont be a good player but selecting Laughton when you have Maatta still up for grabs is a perfect example. Going after Eminger, and countless others.

Flyers have to do a better job at evaluating talent, and what needs they have. The days of buying a team in FA are over, and trading for one every year isnt a smart plan.

Out for the night hooligans.

Good night and good hockey

And I'm off to help my expectant wife. At least I get a first round pick this June!
- Flyskippy

This makes me feel embarrassed, pissed off, and ashamed all at the same time.

How dare you put that in the same post with King Crimson!

fear not the flyer front office will build a cup champion again... for another city

I think trading away the members of the old city crew, and watching the problems still lingering, proves that they weren't the main problem.
- the deaninator

Nope. To put it bluntly too many incosistent players remain, or have been brought in. Players with questionable defensive games FROM THE START. Thats why this team is bad defensively, or a big part of it.

Simmons is the man.

Is it foolish to even want the GM gone? This Clarke/Holmgren regime has ruled for so long, I wouldn't mind a new lens here. Get close sometimes, but it's been a long time to not get over the hump. As a fan, I enjoy the entertainment that their aggressiveness has provided, but maybe it really isn't for the best. Maybe others could do a better job with the resources here.

A big thing, and dead on.

Aside from a coaching change there need to be other big changes. This organization needs to once and for all find an indentity and stick with it. Find and draft players that fit such an identity. They throw together a bunch of guys without really looking at the total make-up of a team. These are not all horrific players but there are far too many who are simply complimentary pieces and dont initiate enough.

Too many guys who are decent in a few areas but dont really excel in one. Too many guys who are chronically inconsistent, and are pretty damn averrage if now below average in the defensive game.

This inconsistency was here under Hitch and Stevens also. You can change all the coaches you want, and I agree with replacing Lava. However until they fix the larger organizational issues the same problems will happen over and over.

The Flyers from top to bottom need to set a course and go with it. Send off those who do not fit a culture of consistency, hard work in all areas of the ice, and only bring in players who have that within them already. There are plenty of players who have talent, are good in the defensive zone and do not have such big questions about consistency in every draft.

Do this rebuild slow, and do it right. It may mean some tough seasons, but at least they are moving in the right direction. Instead of running around like headless chickens, which has directly translated down to the team on the ice.

They need a culture change, from top to bottom, and quite honestly they failed at it big time, or didnt complete it fully when they sent out Richards/Carter, and said they wanted a culture change.

This team used to be respected first and foremost for its hard work and hard nose style of play.
- flyer_nutter

Good post. I don't think they need a culture change, they have a good group of guys who don't show up in tabloids and poop. They just need to find skilled guys and fit them into the lineup where they belong. Right now, the makeup of the team is a mess and we have Tye McGinn on the top line, and Coburn playing more than he can handle at this point.

It is easy to evalute the team when your puzzle is missing a few pieces. Unfortunately, this organization changes the puzzle every couple of years and hopes for the best. It might work one year, or you might get lucky, but that's not a way to move forward.

Out for the night hooligans.

Good night and good hockey
- flyer_nutter

Peace.

IMO they need to do the opposite. Give couts and the young guns the minutes, dump the ufa's for what you can get and go from there. Let them know it's your job and we'll let you work through the down times.
- jstross

yup

Simmer.

If I didn't lay blame for the ever changing mindset on Snider, plus Holmgren having to follow certain things being dictated to him, I'd call for his head, too.

Can Luukko and Holmgren go to Snider and lay it out for him-leave us alone for a couple years, let us build this thing right, no dictating to us to get rid of this guy or get a goalie at all costs-and we can turn this foundation into a good team?
- Jsaquella

Is all this Snider meddling still based on his comments about goaltending 2 years ago? Do we know Holmgren didn't think the exact same thing Snider did?

Seeing something very similar next season in terms of guys on the ice would be frustrating, for me at least.

If there is a coaching change, Id like to see a few guys moved out and brought in. More than 1 or 2.
- flyer_nutter

I think we need to guard against making conclusions about certain players, particularly the younger talent, while viewing them through the fog of this season's debacle...changes need to be made, for sure, but there are a lot of fully capable players and young developing ones playing well under their abilities... which, to me, is indicative of some sort of systemic malfunction rather than the inability of the players. I think whatever is being taught, being demanded, being practiced, being shouted, is either not working or being tuned out or just not being executed by the players. While it is unfair to lay full blame a the feet of Laviolette, most of these issues fall within responsibility of him and the coaching staff. Lavy might be a good coach and working hard to try anf fix things, but whatever he and the team are doing together, it's just not working, anymore.

This season presented a lot of challenges early on with the player turnover, the injuries, the brutal schedule, and the young players growing pains...in ways it was a perfect $hite storm. I can understand how the players could lose confidence in their coaches and also themselves in such a situation, resulting in a snowball effect and downward spiral. I think we need to pull back and take a look at the nneds of the team...I think they could use an offensive defenseman who can skate the puck on the rush and run a PP, and at some point not to far off, another, ideally #1 type, when Timonen is gone. A reasonable trade for Yandle or Buff... Seth Jones would be a nice gift (please God), but don't you just know that even if the Flyers come in last, they'll fall within that 75% chance that they don't get the first pick...but they would at least get an elite prospect.

As far as Lavy...well, I think he's a good guy and a decent coach but I am beginning to think his message has become worn... his firey exhortations, which used to light a fire under the team's a$$ when they needed it, are now seemingly tuned out by the team. Really, how many times can you kick a soda machine or drop an F bomb laden tirade and have it work before it just doesn't do it any more. The team doesn't seem to be buyin what he's selling anymore...so it may be just that time, for new blood...it's almost not fair to him, but even if one doesn't see the blame laying with the coaches, it's tough to see an easier and more effective way to change the whole team's mentality and attitude than making a coaching change. Almost like when a team comes out playing like crap and gives up 3 or 4 goals in the first period of a game...the goalie may not be playing that bad, but he gets pulled anyway as a way of trying to send a message and reset the team's mindset. The Flyers need that reset. I honestly believe that with that change and maybe two or three select roster changes, will come the opportunity to return to the playoff contention next season and beyond. Unless a nice reasonable trade for a top offensive defenseman comes along before the deadline (not likely), I advocate waiting until the draft to make the moves, if any, that they want to make.

A big thing, and dead on.

Aside from a coaching change there need to be other big changes. This organization needs to once and for all find an indentity and stick with it. Find and draft players that fit such an identity. They throw together a bunch of guys without really looking at the total make-up of a team. These are not all horrific players but there are far too many who are simply complimentary pieces and dont initiate enough.

Too many guys who are decent in a few areas but dont really excel in one. Too many guys who are chronically inconsistent, and are pretty damn averrage if now below average in the defensive game.

This inconsistency was here under Hitch and Stevens also. You can change all the coaches you want, and I agree with replacing Lava. However until they fix the larger organizational issues the same problems will happen over and over.

The Flyers from top to bottom need to set a course and go with it. Send off those who do not fit a culture of consistency, hard work in all areas of the ice, and only bring in players who have that within them already. There are plenty of players who have talent, are good in the defensive zone and do not have such big questions about consistency in every draft.

Do this rebuild slow, and do it right. It may mean some tough seasons, but at least they are moving in the right direction. Instead of running around like headless chickens, which has directly translated down to the team on the ice.

They need a culture change, from top to bottom, and quite honestly they failed at it big time, or didnt complete it fully when they sent out Richards/Carter, and said they wanted a culture change.

This team used to be respected first and foremost for its hard work and hard nose style of play.
- flyer_nutter

Good post. I agree with your points regarding "throwing together a bunch of guys", identity, and the lack of blue collar hard work the Flyers (and Philly teams) used to be known for.

I miss Primeau.

If I didn't lay blame for the ever changing mindset on Snider, plus Holmgren having to follow certain things being dictated to him, I'd call for his head, too.

Can Luukko and Holmgren go to Snider and lay it out for him-leave us alone for a couple years, let us build this thing right, no dictating to us to get rid of this guy or get a goalie at all costs-and we can turn this foundation into a good team?
- Jsaquella

i hear ya... the total 180's in philosophy need to stop. but knowing what we do now about pronger's career, i think the flyers are in better shape than they'd be if they hadn't traded richards and carter. and the pronger move almost won them a cup

laviolette though..... you can make a stong argument that they've regressed every season since he's been in philly. some of that is because of the roster changes, but it's getting tougher for me to justify thinking that all of it is

why is this page franked.

In today's NHL, it is almost impossible to acquire a franchise d-man in his prime unless you draft him. If the Flyers view Seth Jones as that type of a player and are close to the top of the draft, they have to do everything to draft him, even if the cost to move up is high.

Comes down to scouting to me, where I felt the Flyers have lacked.

All the talk about drafting good forwards, but thats horsepoop. They need to draft throughout.

Not saying he wont be a good player but selecting Laughton when you have Maatya still up for grabs is a perfect example. Going after Eminger, and countless others.

Flyers have to do a better job at evaluating talent, and what needs they have. The days of buying a team in FA are over, and trading for one every year isnt a smart plan.
- flyer_nutter

If you look at sheer number of NHLers drafted, they do a good job overall.

But they have to do a much better job at identifying young players that aren't forwards.

They've shown signs-Stolarz looks like he's on the right track, Heeter's got some talent and they drafted Eriksson(no idea why they chose to sign Hovinen over him, but they did draft Eriksson) and they did draft four defensemen last summer, and added another well thought of one in the Boucher trade.

Three of those 5 defensemen have gotten pretty good reviews this season(Gostisbehere, Mark Alt and Reece Willcox) in the NCAA, but these guys will require the idea of a marathoner, not a sprinter.