Hartnell isnt going anywhere...
- jak521

Just because I love posting line-ups haha

Voracek-Giroux-Jagr (or other veteran forward)
Read-Schenn-Simmonds
Laughton-Coots-Talbot
Hall-Gordon-Rinaldo

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Grossman
Giordano-6th
- flyer_nutter

Giordano is a top pairing defenseman. Cool to see you have him listed below Grossmann.

Couturier's current defensive value as the guy who can take many of the tough d-zone and PK face-offs (relieving Giroux of some of those duties), while having the potential to add 50-70 points of offense down the line makes him much more valuable (to the Flyers) than adding a one-dimensional defenseman to a team struggling with team defense.
- bradleyc4

Well, "currently" Coots has been pretty mediocre defensively and pretty poor (42.8%) on faceoffs. Also, we're not talking about one dimensional players in Yandle, Shatty, Buff etc. They are offensively dynamic, pp QB, top pairing types who aren't exactly big liabilities defensively...these players would likely complement the current D corps very well.... so, I cannot agree with your reasoning.

Not even Matt Read and a pick/prospect(s)? I think Buf could be unreal for the Flyers... No joke, I'd even move him back up front. Tell him he has to be a dominant player out there and destroy with his size. I think he could. Just my little fantasy though lol.
- Flyers_V88

No way in hell would I deal Matt Read for Byfuglien. Let alone include a pick or a prospect.

Giordano is a top pairing defenseman. Cool to see you have him listed below Grossmann.
- bradleyc4

Balance amongst pairings.

I want to keep Schenn with Timonen for as long as possible.

you're just into hurting my feelings these days aren't you. i feel so insignificant
- mayorofangrytown

not intended to cause you pain sorry moatman!

No way in hell would I deal Matt Read for Byfuglien. Let alone include a pick or a prospect.
- MJL

Matt Read is like the anti-Dustin Byfuglien.

If Buff played with Read's attitude, he'd be a top 5 player in the league.

No way in hell would I deal Matt Read for Byfuglien. Let alone include a pick or a prospect.
- MJL

Wow, that's crazy lol. Don't think many people are in thatf favor, but to each their own. I just think Buf could add so much to what we haven't had since Keith Primeau or Eric Lindros, a TRUE GIANT power forward/player (assuming we move Buf in Read's spot).

Wow, that's crazy lol. Don't think many people are in thatf favor, but to each their own. I just think Buf could add so much to what we haven't had since Keith Primeau or Eric Lindros, a TRUE GIANT power forward/player (assuming we move Buf in Read's spot).
- Flyers_V88

Ill take Read over Buff 34.3 days a week.

Wow, that's crazy lol. Don't think many people are in thatf favor, but to each their own. I just think Buf could add so much to what we haven't had since Keith Primeau or Eric Lindros, a TRUE GIANT power forward/player (assuming we move Buf in Read's spot).
- Flyers_V88

Not crazy at all. If you know both of the players and what they are.

Not crazy at all. If you know both of the players and what they are.
- MJL

One is completely one dimensional.. the other is literally the total opposite.

Not crazy at all. If you know both of the players and what they are.
- MJL

While I'll definitelty agree Read plays with more energy/hustle, there are so many elements Buf can bring that Read just simply can't. And Buf could be used a lot more situationally than Read.

While I'll definitelty agree Read plays with more energy/hustle, there are so many elements Buf can bring that Read just simply can't. And Buf could be used a lot more situationally than Read.
- Flyers_V88

There is really ONE element that Buff brings that Read cant. Size.

Well, "currently" Coots has been pretty mediocre defensively and pretty poor (42.8%) on faceoffs. Also, we're not talking about one dimensional players in Yandle, Shatty, Buff etc. They are offensively dynamic, pp QB, top pairing types who aren't exactly big liabilities defensively...these players would likely complement the current D corps very well.... so, I cannot agree with your reasoning.
- exlund

Agreed. Couturier has a lot to prove. I like the kid. But There's a ceiling there IMO and that's a 2nd line center. So I don't see his potential value being any higher than what shattenkirk brings right now

Agreed. Couturier has a lot to prove. I like the kid. But There's a ceiling there IMO and that's a 2nd line center. So I don't see his potential value being any higher than what shattenkirk brings right now
- Just5

Cooter is too young to put a cap on his potential IMO

Cooter is too young to put a cap on his potential IMO
- JFlyers00

Especially considering he hasnt even been used in offensive settings yet.

Agreed. Couturier has a lot to prove. I like the kid. But There's a ceiling there IMO and that's a 2nd line center. So I don't see his potential value being any higher than what shattenkirk brings right now
- Just5

I don't think Couturier is even old enough to drink yet.

How can we know what his ceiling is?

Especially considering he hasnt even been used in offensive settings yet.
- jak521

He was effective playing Adam Hall and Jay Rosehill last night.

Imagine if he played with guys that were more skilled? We barely saw that last year when G was hurt and Couturier lit it up.

Agreed. Couturier has a lot to prove. I like the kid. But There's a ceiling there IMO and that's a 2nd line center. So I don't see his potential value being any higher than what shattenkirk brings right now
- Just5

I know the front office completely disagrees. They hold Couts in extremely high regards.

He was effective playing Adam Hall and Jay Rosehill last night.

Imagine if he played with guys that were more skilled? We barely saw that last year when G was hurt and Couturier lit it up.
- johndewar

What he lacks in shiftiness and "wow-factor" he makes up (in oodles) with hockey smarts.

Well, "currently" Coots has been pretty mediocre defensively and pretty poor (42.8%) on faceoffs. Also, we're not talking about one dimensional players in Yandle, Shatty, Buff etc. They are offensively dynamic, pp QB, top pairing types who aren't exactly big liabilities defensively...these players would likely complement the current D corps very well.... so, I cannot agree with your reasoning.
- exlund

Shattenkirk is heavily sheltered with off zone starts vs. weak competition. Part of that is a by-product of the talent on their blue line, but the St. Louis coaching staff doesn't trust him with tough minutes yet.

This is even truer for Keith Yandle. They're one dimensional "currently".

Byfuglien isn't as sheltered, but he's a liability defensively and takes the most penalties of any WPG defenseman. He's basically a forward playing defense.

While I'll definitelty agree Read plays with more energy/hustle, there are so many elements Buf can bring that Read just simply can't. And Buf could be used a lot more situationally than Read.
- Flyers_V88

Seriously? They can play Read on the PP, at ES on any line, including the top line. Or on a checking line. And he can play on the PK.

Game on the line, and the other team has a PP. I'd trust Read out on the PK. I would not trust Byfuglien out on the PK.

Especially considering he hasnt even been used in offensive settings yet.
- jak521

Exactly. Take last night for example, the one shift I noticed he got with read and V, he made a dandy of a pass to set up a goal. He did the same thing earlier to set up Knuble and he couldnt finish.... The thought of him potentially filling out his frame over the next 4 years has me drooling

Shattenkirk is heavily sheltered with off zone starts vs. weak competition. Part of that is a by-product of the talent on their blue line, but the St. Louis coaching staff doesn't trust him with tough minutes yet.

This is even truer for Keith Yandle. They're one dimensional "currently".

Byfuglien isn't as sheltered, but he's a liability defensively and takes the most penalties of any WPG defenseman. He's basically a forward playing defense.
- bradleyc4

Yes, all of this.

Wow, that's crazy lol. Don't think many people are in thatf favor, but to each their own. I just think Buf could add so much to what we haven't had since Keith Primeau or Eric Lindros, a TRUE GIANT power forward/player (assuming we move Buf in Read's spot).
- Flyers_V88

I wouldn't do it, either.

Byfuglein is a talented player, but he's got a bit of a lazy streak in him. If he had a good motor, he'd be unstoppable.

Read's a very versatile player. He can play all 3 forward spots, is capable of 20+ goals, good speed, good two way play, solid playmaker, exceptional on the PK, handles a PP point well, extremely good conditioning and work ethic. The only knock I have on Read is his age.