Take no risks, have no benefits.

Other teams take the risks, and employ these players. The same players the Flyers would love to have, and will need to overpay for.
- flyer_nutter

I can't remember too many teams reaching for a Dman in the draft and scoring big with the pick. Usually, they're selected pretty close to where they're slotted.

The last I can remember off the top of my head was Thomas Hickey, 4th overall to LA. He was projected much later.

I am 100% in favor of drafting the best player.
- MJL

Thats alright.

You then have to overpay to fix your needs. At least, if your needs are quality d-men. Which always have to be overpaid for, and are harder to find.

Or you have to bring in guys who you hope recapture that potential they once had. I dont mind the move, but a perfect example is Mason to a degree.

The larger issue being here is that the best player available is fine, but to me if you have such glaring needs on D, you cannot od that. Not in a league where top d-men have to be overpaid to bring in via trade.

The team has great young guys and serviceable (not elite) old guys. Does it have elite prime guys?
- bodiva88

I suppose it depends on your definition of "elite". Either way you slice it, you can wait a year or two and find G and Jake on that list. I'm not sure I understand the point. Who was the elite player on the Kings? How many elite players are there in the league? These adjectives get thrown around like pieces of candy.

I can't remember too many teams reaching for a Dman in the draft and scoring big with the pick. Usually, they're selected pretty close to where they're slotted.

The last I can remember off the top of my head was Thomas Hickey, 4th overall to LA. He was projected much later.
- 77rams

Yet the Flyers had the chance to take Hamilton. Maata.

Which such a glaring need to pass up the chance to fix it in house, instead of having to pay out of your nose to later bring in such players I dont like.

The only thing more sad than the Philly media are the idiots in the thread discussing when the owner dies, almost as if they've marked it on their calendar with smiley faces and exclamation points. The owner is responsible for Flyers hockey being as important and impactful as it is today. Forget the fact that they've already won a few cups in the 70's and are contenders in 9 out of every 10 years. Ignore the fact that the owner is a lightning rod for foundations and charities. Let's just cry because we haven't won a cup recently It's as if fans feel entitled to their team winning the cup every year because they're fans and spend money on the team every year. Try to acknowledge the fact that there are 29 other teams that have fan-bases and finances to support their team.
- steelydan

A cap free CBA would make me feel better.

Right. Had to flirt with inconsistency all year and have Boucher beat the Rags in the shootout.

This team has flirted with chronic inconsistency ever since the "new" nhl began.

Those glory days, and how teams were built, how you could buy a team are long dead.

This organization can move toward building a more consistent elite team, or continue putting its hopes into players that you hope and pray show up, or have questionable defensive games to begin with. It can keep doing what it is doing.
- flyer_nutter

It doesn't matter how they got there. Just that they got there.

You're overlooking a lot of things here. The Flyers are one of the most consistent franchises. They are one of the highest teams in terms of winning playoff series.
And also the Flyers made a drastic change in this team not that long ago. And decided to bring in some young players. Who are still very young. If they wanted to keep contending, well then they shouldn't have made those moves. Seems that is being lost here. Not to mention the injuries to a franchise defenseman such as Pronger. There is a big picture here. Sure this is a tough year. True, there is some work to be done. But the future is still very bright for this team in my opinion. And I'll reiterate BB25's earlier post.

What real change are you looking for, exactly? Was selling off the two core pieces of your franchise, Richards and Carter, not revolutionary enough? Sometimes, when you have a bad season, you don't necessarily have to blow things up in order to prove to fans that you're committed to winning.

Instead, the Flyers can and will likely be looking to trade from a position of surplus (young center) in order fulfill a need (offensively-minded defenseman). And poof, the fans will stop crying.

And yes, "realizing" that Ed may have to die before any "real" changes take place is still pretty scummy.
- steelydan

Nobody is saying we want him to be worm food. I do think there needs to be a change up there yes, and I will admit it.

Carter and Richards in Philadelphia were the go to guys. How they went, the team usually went. In LA they were complimentary pieces, to Brown, Doughty, and Kopitar.

Thats where realistic player evaluation comes into play, and not giving huge contracts to guys that aren't true elite players.

Nobody is saying we want him to be worm food. I do think there needs to be a change up there yes, and I will admit it.

Carter and Richards in Philadelphia were the go to guys. How they went, the team usually went. In LA they were complimentary pieces, to Brown, Doughty, and Kopitar.

Thats where realistic player evaluation comes into play, and not giving huge contracts to guys that aren't true elite players.
- flyer_nutter

Since LA absorbed Richards and Carters contracts, didn't they essentially give huge contracts to players that aren't true elite players? Not sure I follow.

Yes, the Flyers were in the finals. And the team that beat them is an elite franchise still now. The Flyers is not currently elite on the ice, where it counts for me. It is merely elite at the bottom line, which is what the Robertses care about.
- bodiva88

Damn ping pong ball

What real change are you looking for, exactly? Was selling off the two core pieces of your franchise, Richards and Carter, not revolutionary enough? Sometimes, when you have a bad season, you don't necessarily have to blow things up in order to prove to fans that you're committed to winning.

Instead, the Flyers can and will likely be looking to trade from a position of surplus (young center) in order fulfill a need (offensively-minded defenseman). And poof, the fans will stop crying.

And yes, "realizing" that Ed may have to die before any "real" changes take place is still pretty scummy.
- steelydan

I want a team that has a plan and implements it effectively over time. Not a team that seems to bounce from year to year with reactionary "management." Did you really think that was what they did when they signed Carter and Richards to long-term deals and then, just before they became Flyers for life sending them off. Yes, the return was good. But it was also not as ready for prime time and set the team back in development.

I don't think there's any difference in realizing that there won't be change until the guy in charge dies and realizing that any company will not change in culture until there is some dramatic event. There COULD be change if the bottom line weren't so good. But since they make money, there's no reason for the corporate (controlling) ownership to force Ed (minority owner) out. I'm just saying don't hold your breath on there being a change in plan. I'm not saying get out your voodoo dolls.

Thats alright.

You then have to overpay to fix your needs. At least, if your needs are quality d-men. Which always have to be overpaid for, and are harder to find.

Or you have to bring in guys who you hope recapture that potential they once had. I dont mind the move, but a perfect example is Mason to a degree.

The larger issue being here is that the best player available is fine, but to me if you have such glaring needs on D, you cannot od that. Not in a league where top d-men have to be overpaid to bring in via trade.
- flyer_nutter

I disagree that drafting the best player available means that you have to overpay to fix your needs. It would be the same if you had the opposite philosophy. Because drafting by position doesn't guarantee anything. Every team overpays to add needs to fill out a team.

Damn ping pong ball
- 77rams

Kane would be long gone by now if he was selected.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "elite". Either way you slice it, you can wait a year or two and find G and Jake on that list. I'm not sure I understand the point. Who was the elite player on the Kings? How many elite players are there in the league? These adjectives get thrown around like pieces of candy.
- steelydan

I agree. The Flyers have an elite player in Giroux.

Yet the Flyers had the chance to take Hamilton. Maata.

Which such a glaring need to pass up the chance to fix it in house, instead of having to pay out of your nose to later bring in such players I dont like.
- flyer_nutter

And either of those players fixes it instantly?

It doesn't matter how they got there. Just that they got there.

You're overlooking a lot of things here. The Flyers are one of the most consistent franchises. They are one of the highest teams in terms of winning playoff series.
And also the Flyers made a drastic change in this team not that long ago. And decided to bring in some young players. Who are still very young. If they wanted to keep contending, well then they shouldn't have made those moves. Seems that is being lost here. Not to mention the injuries to a franchise defenseman such as Pronger. There is a big picture here. Sure this is a tough year. True, there is some work to be done. But the future is still very bright for this team in my opinion. And I'll reiterate BB25's earlier post.
- MJL

Its alright. I think it isn't right to look back at those glory days and all those wonderful stats to make people feel better. Its a new era, and has been ever since the Flyers failed to adjust during the Rathje/Hatcher era.

What they have been doing may be getting them to the dance, and may have gotten them to the finals. Yet they continously continue to switch identity, chase last years cup, put high expectations on players that realistically cannot live up to them.

The whole approach (since the new nhl), hasnt worked out too well imo. Looking to catch lightning in a bottle, far too often. Along with other issues talked about earlier.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "elite". Either way you slice it, you can wait a year or two and find G and Jake on that list. I'm not sure I understand the point. Who was the elite player on the Kings? How many elite players are there in the league? These adjectives get thrown around like pieces of candy.
- steelydan

If you keep trading them when they hit prime you are always waiting for the next chip to mature into prime. You're always a step behind on the development curve.

G is just coming into his prime. I hope he gets to captain a better team. Because he's a guy whose motor is always in fifth gear.

I am 100% in favor of drafting the best player.
- MJL

We all should be thinking this for the draft. So many to select from that reaching in this draft is not needed.

Nobody is saying we want him to be worm food. I do think there needs to be a change up there yes, and I will admit it.

Carter and Richards in Philadelphia were the go to guys. How they went, the team usually went. In LA they were complimentary pieces, to Brown, Doughty, and Kopitar.

Thats where realistic player evaluation comes into play, and not giving huge contracts to guys that aren't true elite players.
- flyer_nutter

I don't want to get into a Richards/Carter thing. But they weren't complimentary players in LA. They were top icetime, and top players for that team. And still are.

Since LA absorbed Richards and Carters contracts, didn't they essentially give huge contracts to players that aren't true elite players? Not sure I follow.
- steelydan

LA didnt expect Richards and Carter to mainly lead their teams. Flyers did.

How Richards and Carter went, so did the Flyers usually.

I don't want to get into a Richards/Carter thing. But they weren't complimentary players in LA. They were top icetime, and top players for that team. And still are.
- MJL

I would say during the cup run LA had, LA had better pieces sorrounding Richards and Carter.

The Flyers put too much hope, and responsability into Richards and Carter imo.

I want a team that has a plan and implements it effectively over time. Not a team that seems to bounce from year to year with reactionary "management."

I don't think there's any difference in realizing that there won't be change until the guy in charge dies and realizing that any company will not change in culture until there is some dramatic event. There COULD be change if the bottom line weren't so good. But since they make money, there's no reason for the corporate (controlling) ownership to force Ed (minority owner) out. I'm just saying don't hold your breath on there being a change in plan. I'm not saying get out your voodoo dolls.
- bodiva88

I don't understand why people, yourself included, feel that there can't be real change with Snider at the helm. They god rid of their two centerpieces (Richards and Carter) in a span of a few hours and got substantially younger and a few draft picks. They went out and signed what they believed to be a franchise goaltender, a Russian one at that. They took a 19-year old rookie and played him against one of the best forwards in the game during a playoff rivalry series, and then managed to not trade him at the height of his value.

I don't understand what bad ol' Uncle Ed has done recently to piss off the fans, but I'm thinking it's unwarranted and just some reactionary comment each time the team loses.

Yet the Flyers had the chance to take Hamilton. Maata.

Which such a glaring need to pass up the chance to fix it in house, instead of having to pay out of your nose to later bring in such players I dont like.
- flyer_nutter

I have to agree with you there regarding Hamilton. We'll have to wait and see about Maata.

The Flyers do have a blind spot for the checking, grinding, character, centers.

I disagree that drafting the best player available means that you have to overpay to fix your needs. It would be the same if you had the opposite philosophy. Because drafting by position doesn't guarantee anything. Every team overpays to add needs to fill out a team.
- MJL

The thing here is that it is common place for teams to overpay either in trade or via FA for quality d-men.

They are more valuable and harder to get than forwards.

And either of those players fixes it instantly?
- MJL

No but it moves them in the right direction. The Flyers did draft d-men in the last draft as you say.

Yet they passed up on the guys who were ranked higher, when they had potential to get them. See Maata and Hamilton.

If you do not take risks to draft d-men, you always have to overpay to get quality d-men. You can no longer put all the hope in FA, and in a trade you always have to overpay for quality d-men.

They cost more than forwards.

I didn't see a lack of heart or compete. I saw a better team beat a worse team. Mainly based on talent and cohesiveness.
- Just5

The Flyers were badly outworked last night. They didn't match the Islanders level of compete.

I do feel that most nights the Flyers show a decent effort. I didn't see that last night at all.