The thing here is that it is common place for teams to overpay either in trade or via FA for quality d-men.

They are more valuable and harder to get than forwards.
- flyer_nutter

I agree totally that quality D men are more valuable and harder to get. But I don't agree that it's ore common place for teams to overpay for D men. Top UFA's and top players at any position are overpaid for. Just look at Briere. Or Brad Richards. Or Zach Parise.

Yet the Flyers had the chance to take Hamilton. Maata.

Which such a glaring need to pass up the chance to fix it in house, instead of having to pay out of your nose to later bring in such players I dont like.
- flyer_nutter

From a drafting mindset you have a board setup for each team, just because you have a need you don't and most times shouldn't stray from it.

Coots wasn't expect to be available at 8 when it turned out he was it changed for them and they didn't wast time selecting him.

Laughton I was a bit shocked at but I look at it as they had him ranked higher on their board.

I agree totally that quality D men are more valuable and harder to get. But I don't agree that it's ore common place for teams to overpay for D men. Top UFA's and top players at any position are overpaid for. Just look at Briere. Or Brad Richards. Or Zach Parise.
- MJL

Exactly right, yet those kind of players hit FA more often. Real quality d-men, and not just secondary guys that the Flyers are full of rarely hit FA, in the new nhl.

No but it moves them in the right direction. The Flyers did draft d-men in the last draft as you say.

Yet they passed up on the guys who were ranked higher, when they had potential to get them. See Maata and Hamilton.

If you do not take risks to draft d-men, you always have to overpay to get quality d-men. You can no longer put all the hope in FA, and in a trade you always have to overpay for quality d-men.

They cost more than forwards.
- flyer_nutter

They were ranked higher by whom? That's the point. They were not ranked higher by the Flyers. With high draft picks, the worst thing that you can do with is to take a risk. That's incompetence.

And if the Flyers had taken defenseman. You know what they then would be overpaying for? Forwards!

Exactly right, yet those kind of players hit FA more often. Real quality d-men, and not just secondary guys that the Flyers are full of rarely hit FA, in the new nhl.
- flyer_nutter

Right, which is why I agreed they are harder to get. But that doesn't mean you pass up a better player to draft by need.

Thats alright.

You then have to overpay to fix your needs. At least, if your needs are quality d-men. Which always have to be overpaid for, and are harder to find.

Or you have to bring in guys who you hope recapture that potential they once had. I dont mind the move, but a perfect example is Mason to a degree.

The larger issue being here is that the best player available is fine, but to me if you have such glaring needs on D, you cannot od that. Not in a league where top d-men have to be overpaid to bring in via trade.
- flyer_nutter

What do Shea Weber, Duncan Keith, Alexander Edler, PK Subban, Kris Letang and Yandle have in common?

None of them were picked in the first round. They have to do a better job of developing defensemen and of identifying future NHLers in the rounds beyond the 1st, for sure. But using a 1st rounder on a defenseman is no sure bet.

You still take the best player on your board in the first round. If you have two that you rate the same, then you worry about position. Draft for position in the 2nd-7th rounds

From a drafting mindset you have a board setup for each team, just because you have a need you don't and most times shouldn't stray from it.

Coots wasn't expect to be available at 8 when it turned out he was it changed for them and they didn't wast time selecting him.

Laughton I was a bit shocked at but I look at it as they had him ranked higher on their board.
- ob18

I agree that most teams shouldnt go by need. In the Flyers case, where that need is so clearly evident I think you do.

I am not saying go crazy and draft Nurse 3rd overall. The Flyers knew they would have this need, and should have done a better job to address it when they had the chance. Instead of putting all the hope in FA or Weber.

What do Shea Weber, Duncan Keith, Alexander Edler, PK Subban, Kris Letang and Yandle have in common?

None of them were picked in the first round. They have to do a better job of developing defensemen and of identifying future NHLers in the rounds beyond the 1st, for sure. But using a 1st rounder on a defenseman is no sure bet.

You still take the best player on your board in the first round. If you have two that you rate the same, then you worry about position. Draft for position in the 2nd-7th rounds
- Jsaquella

If you have the Flyers who desperately need quality d-men with an aging Timonen and Pronger (when he ways playing), you take Hamilton over Coots and Maata over Laughton. That is not stretching, and nobody is saying to go crazy and pick someone like Nurse 3rd overall for example.

Just me.

No but it moves them in the right direction. The Flyers did draft d-men in the last draft as you say.

Yet they passed up on the guys who were ranked higher, when they had potential to get them. See Maata and Hamilton.

If you do not take risks to draft d-men, you always have to overpay to get quality d-men. You can no longer put all the hope in FA, and in a trade you always have to overpay for quality d-men.

They cost more than forwards.
- flyer_nutter

Maata, yes. Hamilton, no.

They were ranked higher by whom? That's the point. They were not ranked higher by the Flyers. With high draft picks, the worst thing that you can do with is to take a risk. That's incompetence.

And if the Flyers had taken defenseman. You know what they then would be overpaying for? Forwards!
- MJL

In todays NHL. What is easier to get.

Talented top tier d-men? Or talented top tier forwards. Especially in FA.

I'm off for a while here boys, but I'll say this which I know not all agree.

Its a new era, and has been since the new NHL. The way teams are built, and upkept are different.

Imho I think the Flyers have failed to realise this, and catch up.

Along with a lack of consistent identity, chasing last years cup, etc etc. The glory days are dead. Its a new time. Even if they have made it to the playoffs, and the big show one time. They rely too much on catching lightning in a bottle. Along with a lack of longterm planning and better player evaluation.

Take 'er easy.

In todays NHL. What is easier to get.

Talented top tier d-men? Or talented top tier forwards. Especially in FA.
- flyer_nutter

Ask Minnesota.

If you have the Flyers who desperately need quality d-men with an aging Timonen and Pronger (when he ways playing), you take Hamilton over Coots and Maata over Laughton. That is not stretching, and nobody is saying to go crazy and pick someone like Nurse 3rd overall for example.

Just me.
- flyer_nutter

And you know what the talk would be if Hamilton was here instead of Couturier? He'd likely be struggling big time here, in this situation. And there'd be talk of him being a bust. Like you do with the concerns you express with B Schenn.

If you have the Flyers who desperately need quality d-men with an aging Timonen and Pronger (when he ways playing), you take Hamilton over Coots and Maata over Laughton. That is not stretching, and nobody is saying to go crazy and pick someone like Nurse 3rd overall for example.

Just me.
- flyer_nutter

It depends on who you have on your draft board. You have scouts, whose job it is to scout players. Not every team just shows up at the draft with a copy of the CSB and ISS rankings and crosses off the names.

It's funny now that Couturier is so much worse than Hamilton, even though Hamilton is sheltered quite a bit on a deep Bruins defense, and Couturier has been stuck playing with the least skilled linemates on his team. Just 12 months ago, Couturier was shutting down the league MVP in the playoffs...now, he was a bad pick.

Trade Coburn to Columbus for one of their #1's. That is all.

In todays NHL. What is easier to get.

Talented top tier d-men? Or talented top tier forwards. Especially in FA.
- flyer_nutter

I've answered that question and agreed with that, twice previously.

And you know what the talk would be if Hamilton was here instead of Couturier? He'd likely be struggling big time here, in this situation. And there'd be talk of him being a bust. Like you do with the concerns you express with B Schenn.
- MJL

My reasons for Schenn have nothing to do with the conversation though.

Hamilton would be struggling because too much would be put on him. Lack of organizational planning.

Trade Coburn to Columbus for one of their #1's. That is all.
- Just5

Then fire Holmgren for making that deal.

My reasons for Schenn have nothing to do with the conversation though.

Hamilton would be struggling because too much would be put on him. Lack of organizational planning.
- flyer_nutter

I think it has everything to do with it. I think far too much is being made of one bad season.

draft lottery in a couple weeks woooooooo. We will know where we stand and I want everyones choice out in the thread before the draft, homework to be done people.

I agree that most teams shouldnt go by need. In the Flyers case, where that need is so clearly evident I think you do.

I am not saying go crazy and draft Nurse 3rd overall. The Flyers knew they would have this need, and should have done a better job to address it when they had the chance. Instead of putting all the hope in FA or Weber.
- flyer_nutter

They tried that when they needed a goalie and ended up with Boucher and Ouellett.

Thankfully the Rangers took Sanguinetti the year the Flyers drafted Giroux or we'd still be waiting for him to develop into a top 4.

I don't know why the Flyers can't pick D or goalies but history backs it up.

It depends on who you have on your draft board. You have scouts, whose job it is to scout players. Not every team just shows up at the draft with a copy of the CSB and ISS rankings and crosses off the names.

It's funny now that Couturier is so much worse than Hamilton, even though Hamilton is sheltered quite a bit on a deep Bruins defense, and Couturier has been stuck playing with the least skilled linemates on his team. Just 12 months ago, Couturier was shutting down the league MVP in the playoffs...now, he was a bad pick.
- Jsaquella

Who says Coots is worse? Or is it that Hamilton fills a greater need and wasnt a real stretch in drafting at the time.

draft lottery in a couple weeks woooooooo. We will know where we stand and I want everyones choice out in the thread before the draft, homework to be done people.
- Just5

sharrif floyd

I think it has everything to do with it. I think far too much is being made of one bad season.
- MJL

I agree with that, wholeheartedly.

You have several veterans struggling to find their form. You have young guys playing inconsistently. Until the blueline got decimated by injuries, they were playing a style that didn't really mesh that well with the talent on hand. The goalie has been ridden into the ground and they look spent.

Time to lick the wounds and regroup for next season. They need pieces to be a contender, but if they get the veterans returning to form and the youngsters to find more consistency-neither of which is unlikely-they'll rebound.

sharrif floyd
- Crimsoninja

Goalie?