That's a harsher review of Bryzgalov and his time in Philly than many on this board are prepared to accept. There's always an excuse for Bryz and it's never that he's not an elite goalie.

The key part for me is that he's not a bad goalie but he's not the game changing elite goalie that his contract dictates he be.

I agree with pretty much everything there including noticing the conflicting changing rationales.
- Flyers_01

I think what Bill wrote is in line with what the vast majority of posters in here think.

I think what Bill wrote is in line with what the vast majority of posters in here think.

- MBFlyerfan

No, no.. It's all extremes in here. No well-thought out criticisms that only partially agree with haters allowed. Also, short memories are a must.

No, no.. It's all extremes in here. No well-thought out criticisms that only partially agree with haters allowed. Also, short memories are a must.
- Flyskippy

I can only speak for myself. I find myself as a Bryz supporter because so often, I have to defend him against the extremists here who say he's terrible, Mason is a better goalie after 1 game, Bob is already the better goalie, etc. If there wasn't an overwhelming hatred of Bryz (as a player and as a personality), I'd find myself being able to give a more honest opinion of his overall game. It sucks, but it's true. The fact is, Bryz is the best goalie this team has had in a while. Perhaps he doesn't justify his cap hit, but I don't think fans should take that into consideration when judging the goalie on the ice. Review what he does out there on the ice and how he makes the team better. If you hate the contract, then the criticism should go against Homer. We all understand that it is a cap-driven league and cap hit of a player is a vital part of their value, but it shouldn't get used when discussing a player's strengths/weaknesses. I find that salary talk is something that is discussed far too much on this board, and makes many of us lose sight on the game in front of us.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Bryzgalov, Hartnell, Wellwood
- bmeltzer

dang, poor wellwood.

They showed Bob's numbers on TSN. Now I wanna spew like an overheated radiator.

No, no.. It's all extremes in here. No well-thought out criticisms that only partially agree with haters allowed. Also, short memories are a must.
- Flyskippy

who are you again?

dang, poor wellwood.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

The Flyers famously take care of their own. Here's hoping he recovers and gets a chance to regain his form in Adirondack / Allentown and eventually with the Flyers.

I can only speak for myself. I find myself as a Bryz supporter because so often, I have to defend him against the extremists here who say he's terrible, Mason is a better goalie after 1 game, Bob is already the better goalie, etc. If there wasn't an overwhelming hatred of Bryz (as a player and as a personality), I'd find myself being able to give a more honest opinion of his overall game. It sucks, but it's true. The fact is, Bryz is the best goalie this team has had in a while. Perhaps he doesn't justify his cap hit, but I don't think fans should take that into consideration when judging the goalie on the ice. Review what he does out there on the ice and how he makes the team better. If you hate the contract, then the criticism should go against Homer. We all understand that it is a cap-driven league and cap hit of a player is a vital part of their value, but it shouldn't get used when discussing a player's strengths/weaknesses. I find that salary talk is something that is discussed far too much on this board, and makes many of us lose sight on the game in front of us.
- steelydan

who are you again?
- Don'tForgetTocchet

Hi. I get that a lot.

I can only speak for myself. I find myself as a Bryz supporter because so often, I have to defend him against the extremists here who say he's terrible, Mason is a better goalie after 1 game, Bob is already the better goalie, etc. If there wasn't an overwhelming hatred of Bryz (as a player and as a personality), I'd find myself being able to give a more honest opinion of his overall game. It sucks, but it's true. The fact is, Bryz is the best goalie this team has had in a while. Perhaps he doesn't justify his cap hit, but I don't think fans should take that into consideration when judging the goalie on the ice. Review what he does out there on the ice and how he makes the team better. If you hate the contract, then the criticism should go against Homer. We all understand that it is a cap-driven league and cap hit of a player is a vital part of their value, but it shouldn't get used when discussing a player's strengths/weaknesses. I find that salary talk is something that is discussed far too much on this board, and makes many of us lose sight on the game in front of us.
- steelydan

Understood. I have not made it a secret that I was *not* in favor of the Flyers acquiring Bryzgalov. However, he is a Flyer and I support him based on that. He has not been the problem with this team two years straight, although he has not been the "elite" goalie that they wanted, either. Surely, the extreme view that "he sucks" makes it appear that I support him - but that generality masks the fact that I don't think he is the answer. So, to rail on his play while overlooking other more glaring issues with the team clouds the fact that I am not a 100% Bryz supporter. I just differ in my assessment of his play.

It's a small point made into a gulf when in the hands of the "all or nothing" crowd.

Understood. I have not made it a secret that I was *not* in favor of the Flyers acquiring Bryzgalov. However, he is a Flyer and I support him based on that. He has not been the problem with this team two years straight, although he has not been the "elite" goalie that they wanted, either. Surely, the extreme view that "he sucks" makes it appear that I support him - but that generality masks the fact that I don't think he is the answer. So, to rail on his play while overlooking other more glaring issues with the team clouds the fact that I am not a 100% Bryz supporter. I just differ in my assessment of his play.

It's a small point made into a gulf when in the hands of the "all or nothing" crowd.
- Flyskippy

I have no problem with Bryz. My only issue with his is the length of the deal and the cap recapture penalty if he ever decides to retire prematurely. That's why I would use an amnesty on him next year.

I can only speak for myself. I find myself as a Bryz supporter because so often, I have to defend him against the extremists here who say he's terrible, Mason is a better goalie after 1 game, Bob is already the better goalie, etc. If there wasn't an overwhelming hatred of Bryz (as a player and as a personality), I'd find myself being able to give a more honest opinion of his overall game. It sucks, but it's true. The fact is, Bryz is the best goalie this team has had in a while. Perhaps he doesn't justify his cap hit, but I don't think fans should take that into consideration when judging the goalie on the ice. Review what he does out there on the ice and how he makes the team better. If you hate the contract, then the criticism should go against Homer. We all understand that it is a cap-driven league and cap hit of a player is a vital part of their value, but it shouldn't get used when discussing a player's strengths/weaknesses. I find that salary talk is something that is discussed far too much on this board, and makes many of us lose sight on the game in front of us.
- steelydan

AMEN

The fact is, Bryz is the best goalie this team has had in a while.
- steelydan

I would love to know if this statement has statistical backing. I'm not being snarky; I'm genuinely curious.

Only if you have another contract in specific you intend to amnesty. I'd probably just amnesty Briere and Bryz and get it over with.
- BulliesPhan87

You want to be paying Bryz for the next 14 years?

I'd dangle him out there for a bag of pucks and pray someone bites.. if not, you need to keep him for now and hope his value goes up. I just don't see how keeping him on the books for 14 more years is going to help things...


Everyone is calling for amnesty now, left and right. But 8 years from now when it's really getting old and starting to bite you, then people will be crying about that. It's a no-win situation right now unless they can find someone willing to take him on for practically nothing..

Hi. I get that a lot.
- Flyskippy

just a short memory joke

if it wasnt for the Marlins the Philly teams would all be last place, when was the last time that happened?

I can only speak for myself. I find myself as a Bryz supporter because so often, I have to defend him against the extremists here who say he's terrible, Mason is a better goalie after 1 game, Bob is already the better goalie, etc. If there wasn't an overwhelming hatred of Bryz (as a player and as a personality), I'd find myself being able to give a more honest opinion of his overall game. It sucks, but it's true. The fact is, Bryz is the best goalie this team has had in a while. Perhaps he doesn't justify his cap hit, but I don't think fans should take that into consideration when judging the goalie on the ice. Review what he does out there on the ice and how he makes the team better. If you hate the contract, then the criticism should go against Homer. We all understand that it is a cap-driven league and cap hit of a player is a vital part of their value, but it shouldn't get used when discussing a player's strengths/weaknesses. I find that salary talk is something that is discussed far too much on this board, and makes many of us lose sight on the game in front of us.
- steelydan

Well said.

I have no problem with Bryz. My only issue with his is the length of the deal and the cap recapture penalty if he ever decides to retire prematurely. That's why I would use an amnesty on him next year.
- jmatchett383

Do you think they may amnesty Bryz and restructure the contract? Mason and Bryz will be the best Philly will get for goalies, Elite goaltenders usually never hit the UFA market

They showed Bob's numbers on TSN. Now I wanna spew like an overheated radiator.
- MunsterMike

He's got that star-studded defense in front of him.

But seriously, as much as I wanted them to roll with Bob and a cheap vet 2 years ago, it's still too early to anoint him as the next big thing.

40 games does not make you the next Hasek.

Goaltenders can ride hot streaks for full seasons and then regress to league average or worse. He needs to continue to improve his game and remain consistent in his performances.

But he's been lights out this year and is deserving of both Vezina and Hart trophy nominations.

Bill,
In regards to Hartnell you talk about two possibilities.
One is to hope that he rebounds and gets back to form next year in a full season of work. I see this as the most likely outcome.

The second is that he continues to slide in his play and becomes a candidate for one of the compliance buyouts next summer if they only use one this year.

What about the third option, consider him in a trade package in a deal to get the top end of the defense fixed? I would think that Hartnell by himself does not get you a top pair defenseman (unless it is an older player or someone who has an obvious weakness in one aspect of their all around game). But Hartnell should have a lot of value around the league, consistent 25 goal scorer, grit, personality, etc. A team that is considered too small up front would covet a guy like Hartnell.

I understand the no trade aspect, but there are ways around these.
If the no trade severely limits the return, then the Flyers don't consider the deal.

Is this a complete fantasy to see Hartnell in a possible trade?

Every time I read about Couts or B Schenn as the possible player to be traded, I much prefer the idea of keeping those two and seeing what they could get for Hartnell.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.

just a short memory joke
- Don'tForgetTocchet

/fulfillswatson'sdoesn'tgetthebitagain

I have no problem with Bryz. My only issue with his is the length of the deal and the cap recapture penalty if he ever decides to retire prematurely. That's why I would use an amnesty on him next year.
- jmatchett383

I think you guys dwell too much on this early retirement thing. How many players retire early anymore without injury? Off the top of my head I can't think of any. Even pronger hasn't come out and retired officially.

Do you think they may amnesty Bryz and restructure the contract? Mason and Bryz will be the best Philly will get for goalies, Elite goaltenders usually never hit the UFA market
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

They can't. A buyout of Bryz would stop us from signing him for at least a year. He has to go to another team.

if it wasnt for the Marlins the Philly teams would all be last place, when was the last time that happened?
- vejim

1992?

/guess

Phillies went from worst in 1992 to first in 1993.

Flyers were bad and last in their division.

I did not follow the Eagles anymore by that point and the Sixers I've never followed.

They showed Bob's numbers on TSN. Now I wanna spew like an overheated radiator.
- MunsterMike

We heard how great mike smith was last year when he replaced bryzgalov. then this year he regressed. I think the bob we are seeing is the real deal but let's see him do it for a couple seasons first.