Umberger was around the same age and had a similar history of production and netted a 1st-rounder from Columbus that turned into Sbisa. Read could probably realistically go for a very late 1st or an early 2nd, with top-end draft picks being a bit more valuable to teams now than they were back in 08.
- Tomahawk

Very true. Would be nice to see if a team would bite and offer us a late first for him. Having 2 picks in the first round would be a huge luxury this year.

Very true. Would be nice to see if a team would bite and offer us a late first for him. Having 2 picks in the first round would be a huge luxury this year.
- gypsypunk92

The real conundrum with trading Read is that it's almost impossible to get 40-50pts out of a $900k player for the 2013-14 season... his point/$ value is incredible for at least one more season.

It's time for Homer to go. Bring in fresh blood from outside the organization. The moves he has made would be fire-able on most other teams.
- Jimmygrazz

you're preaching to the choir

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would trade both sooner rather than later.

Hartnell's production might rebound in the very near term, but he's going to experience some serious decline toward the mid-late portion of his extension.

Read just isn't a $3-4M IMO, just like Umberger wasn't back in the day, and Upshall isn't now.
- Tomahawk

do like the Marlins, trade all your star players and win championships

The real conundrum with trading Read is that it's almost impossible to get 40-50pts out of a $900k player for the 2013-14 season... his point/$ value is incredible for at least one more season.
- Tomahawk

Yeah, its hard to find that kind of value at that price. That seem's to be a big key to success in today's NHL.. cashing in on the first couple years of those ELCs

There was a time when Danny Briere, Marty St. Louis, Andy McDonald, P.A. Parenteau, Steve Sullivan, Matt Moulson and Teddy Purcell were thought to be nothing more than AHL scorers.

Akeson's not only produced at every step along the way, he's shown improvement at every step as well. That's pretty impressive and usually means he stands a decent chance at surviving in the show.
- Tomahawk

Even Keith Aucoin has turned himself into a decent pro this season with the Islanders.

Yeah, its hard to find that kind of value at that price. That seem's to be a big key to success in today's NHL.. cashing in on the first couple years of those ELCs
- gypsypunk92

It worked wonders for teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh.

It's also important to not rush all of your prospects too. If you bring a guy up at age 18 or 19, you're wasting those ELC years a couple of years too early and have to pay a premium for his prime years, rather than having them on an ELC or a bridge contract. Fine line to walk.

I would trade Read and Hartnell if a team offers a #1 for each player

It's time for Homer to go. Bring in fresh blood from outside the organization. The moves he has made would be fire-able on most other teams.
- Jimmygrazz

Which ones?

I would trade Read and Hartnell if a team offers a #1 for each player
- vejim

I would not trade either player for a draft pick.

I would not trade either player for a draft pick.
- bradleyc4

its a rebuild anyways

Yeah, its hard to find that kind of value at that price. That seem's to be a big key to success in today's NHL.. cashing in on the first couple years of those ELCs
- gypsypunk92

Yeah, young players with limited contract rights, locked into the system. That's why so few teams are willing to part with high draft picks and top prospects to get rentals. So many guys are locked into long-term deals, too, that UFA has really thinned out.

Middle of the road prospects and picks are the new currency it seems -- kind of necessitates the Flyers being a bit better at hitting pay dirt with 2nd-5th round picks.

If it came down to it I'd rather trade Hartnell and his long term 4.75/yr cap hit and keep Read around 3-4 mil. Slide Simmer into Hartnell's role.
- exlund

You know, I keep hearing the Hartnell bashing this season when last year, most people were thrilled with his extension. Aside from scoring, he does a lot more on the ice (drawing penalties, yapping, getting in the crease), while he's prone to taking penalties and is at best a below-average skater.

He's had a bad year characterized by no training camp and an injury that probably isn't fully healed yet. If we trade him, I hope we can find another way to get 25 goals/55 points along with a second PP net-front presence, a guy everyone in the locker room likes, and a guy who drops the gloves from time to time for less than he's making.

its a rebuild anyways
- vejim

I don't view it that way at all. They're one or two pieces from being a contender next season.

Honestly, if it were up to me, I would trade both sooner rather than later.

Hartnell's production might rebound in the very near term, but he's going to experience some serious decline toward the mid-late portion of his extension.

Read just isn't a $3-4M IMO, just like Umberger wasn't back in the day, and Upshall isn't now.
- Tomahawk

I'm curious as to how you come to that conclusion? I mean, I'd love to sign Reader for like 2.5 mil, but I looked at some players in the same production range (around .59 pts per game) and found that 3-4 mil is a pretty fair/more likely number, especially when you consider that he still has some upside, having only played around 120 NHL games, and his versatility, being able to play any forward position and in any situation. If a team is willing to throw a Leino contract at him, then so long Matt Read, but we'll see.

For reference (mind you I'm not claiming any specific player below is worse or better or more or less valuable than Read, I'm just giving some salary reference for some peers in terms of production level - pts per game):

Dubinsky: 4.2 MM/yr
Perron 3.8 MM/yr
Turris 3.5 MM/yr
Fisher 4.2 MM/yr
Eriksson 4.25 MM/yr
Stajan 3.5 MM/yr
Backes 4.5 MM/yr
Brassard 3.2 MM/yr
Erat 4.5 MM/yr
J Staal 6 MM/yr
Callahan 4.275 MM/yr

You know, I keep hearing the Hartnell bashing this season when last year, most people were thrilled with his extension. Aside from scoring, he does a lot more on the ice (drawing penalties, yapping, getting in the crease), while he's prone to taking penalties and is at best a below-average skater.

He's had a bad year characterized by no training camp and an injury that probably isn't fully healed yet. If we trade him, I hope we can find another way to get 25 goals/55 points along with a second PP net-front presence, a guy everyone in the locker room likes, and a guy who drops the gloves from time to time for less than he's making.
- jmatchett383

I hated his extension, mostly because of the timing... they still had another entire season to get it done. Why extend it before they know what the new CBA looks like and in the midst of a career season for him.

There was a time when Danny Briere, Marty St. Louis, Andy McDonald, P.A. Parenteau, Steve Sullivan, Matt Moulson and Teddy Purcell were thought to be nothing more than AHL scorers.

Akeson's not only produced at every step along the way, he's shown improvement at every step as well. That's pretty impressive and usually means he stands a decent chance at surviving in the show.
- Tomahawk

Unfortunately, apart from the lack of size, Akeson is also regarded as a step too slow (which was not a knock on Briere, St. Louis or Sullivan -- they just happened to come up at a time when smaller players were generally having a real hard time cracking the NHL). But Akeson keeps working and working. Being an average-at-best skater wasn't ultimately a hindrance to Vaclav Prospal, who was long considered too physically weak to play in the NHL.

I'm curious as to how you come to that conclusion? I mean, I'd love to sign Reader for like 2.5 mil, but I looked at some players in the same production range (around .59 pts per game) and found that 3-4 mil is a pretty fair/more likely number, especially when you consider that he still has some upside, having only played around 120 NHL games, and his versatility, being able to play any forward position and in any situation. If a team is willing to throw a Leino contract at him, then so long Matt Read, but we'll see.

For reference (mind you I'm not claiming any specific player below is worse or better or more or less valuable than Read, I'm just giving some salary reference for some peers in terms of production level - pts per game):

Dubinsky: 4.2 MM/yr
Perron 3.8 MM/yr
Turris 3.5 MM/yr
Fisher 4.2 MM/yr
Eriksson 4.25 MM/yr
Stajan 3.5 MM/yr
Backes 4.5 MM/yr
Brassard 3.2 MM/yr
Erat 4.5 MM/yr
J Staal 6 MM/yr
Callahan 4.275 MM/yr
- exlund

I guess I should have qualified my statement as "Read isn't a $3-4M player under the new player share". If this were '08, I'd be rushing to put the pen in his hands.

I hated his extension, mostly because of the timing... they still had another entire season to get it done. Why extend it before they know what the new CBA looks like and in the midst of a career season for him.
- Tomahawk

I'd have to agree. His contract could have been worked out MUCH better than it did. Obviously he's loving it, but the Flyers probably put too much term on there.

Unfortunately, apart from the lack of size, Akeson is also regarded as a step too slow (which was not a knock on Briere, St. Louis or Sullivan -- they just happened to come up at a time when smaller players were generally having a real hard time cracking the NHL). But Akeson keeps working and working. Being an average-at-best skater wasn't ultimately a hindrance to Vaclav Prospal, who was long considered too physically weak to play in the NHL.
- bmeltzer

I'm actually encouraged that he's small and slow and still manages to break through at every level... it speaks to his anticipation, sense and hands.

I guess I should have qualified my statement as "Read isn't a $3-4M player under the new player share". If this were '08, I'd be rushing to put the pen in his hands.
- Tomahawk

Well, no he wouldn't be at least for next season, but he's still signed through next season and I think there is an expected rise in the cap the following season, so what really changed then? If Briere (and possibly) Bryz get bought out, that could open things up to retain Read. Keep in mind my original post on this was in the context of trading Hartnell if that's what was needed to have room to keep Read. It's all premature anyway...we'll have to see how some of the coming changes will alter the cap outlook.

Please just lose Out for the pick. god these next 3 games are going to suck. Really don't want them to win
- Just5

Yep, 3 straight loses gaurentees 9th pick, but probably higher. Winning does nothing for them at this point.

I don't view it that way at all. They're one or two pieces from being a contender next season.
- bradleyc4

I would not trade either player for a draft pick.
- bradleyc4

Not even a top 5 pick?

Please just lose Out for the pick. god these next 3 games are going to suck. Really don't want them to win
- Just5