Darren Helm, lead all forwards in PK TOI in his rookie year. Not too shabby on FOs.

Corey Emmerton, sophomore, 1:40/game on PK.

Lashoff and DeKeyser, rookies, getting 1:30-2:00/game on PK.

Jonathan Ericsson, 2:00/game on PK in his rookie year.

You might have also heard of guys like Henrique, Fayne, Fraser, Josefson and Stephen Gionta.


That's only recent history, too.
- Tomahawk

There are always exceptions. Flyers played Couturier on the PK as a Rookie. No one said you couldn't play a rookie on the PK. What is said is that the Flyers need a player like Hall who is a veteran, to take key draws and be a key player on the PK. To lessen the load on a player like Giroux, who is really the only decent faceoff guy they have.

If you look through any history of the League. What type of players do teams most rely on for key defensive draws and PK play? Rookies or veterans?

Let's look through all the current teams and who they play on the PK. What do you think you'll find? More Rookies, or more veterans? There are always outliers to everything. What is the norm?

Nope. Foster is bigger, more capable of playing stay at home, and has a strong slap shot. He's bad, don't get me wrong, just not nearly as bad as Lilja
- JAKEw1234

Other then the hip issue that has further limited his mobility. Lilja is a better player then Foster is, if he's healthy.

they should have built a 7,000 seat arena at the Pennnsauken mart for the Phantoms
- vejim

That would have been great, as far as I'm concerned.

I have no idea what's on that site now. I think it was supposed to be luxury apartments.

That would have been great, as far as I'm concerned.

I have no idea what's on that site now. I think it was supposed to be luxury apartments.
- johndewar

when I was up there in dec the mart was still there

Darren Helm, lead all forwards in PK TOI in his rookie year. Not too shabby on FOs.

Corey Emmerton, sophomore, 1:40/game on PK.

Lashoff and DeKeyser, rookies, getting 1:30-2:00/game on PK.

Jonathan Ericsson, 2:00/game on PK in his rookie year.

You might have also heard of guys like Henrique, Fayne, Fraser, Josefson and Stephen Gionta.


That's only recent history, too.
- Tomahawk

Can you please only mention players on teams like NJ and Detroit, who don't use kids to come up and be their top PK players?

There are always exceptions. Flyers played Couturier on the PK as a Rookie. No one said you couldn't play a rookie on the PK. What is said is that the Flyers need a player like Hall who is a veteran, to take key draws and be a key player on the PK. Tl lessen the load on a player like Giroux, who is really the only decent faceoff guy they have.
- MJL

Yeah, I just gave you 10 "exceptions" from the same two teams, that also happen to be the two most successfully run franchises of the past two decades. Truth be told, the Penguins do the same, so there you go.

If it were the Flyers, they would have kept a lot of those players in the system to get "top minutes" while repeatedly handing out multi-year deals to guys like Gervais, Rosehill, and Lilja (and now, possibly Hall) to do jobs that the kids they already have are supposed to be doing.

Of course, Couturier and Schenn have big roles on the current club... that's because they're top prospects. We're talking about guys like Holmstrom, McGinn, Lauridsen who are tailor-made to be role players... the Flyers have to be more open to letting them assume those roles, instead of only accidentally stumbling upon the possibly due to extenuating circumstances.

That the players are playing a far less aggressive system now, has a lot to do with it. They're playing a style that they're capable of playing. And because they know they can play it, the team wide confidence is there.
- MJL

That's at least in part because we have a brand new defensive corps now versus when the season started, short L Schenn. So it only makes sense that when you have AHL players filling it at the NHL level, the system will change a bit because they aren't expected to be as good as the guys with the big contracts.

That's at least in part because we have a brand new defensive corps now versus when the season started, short L Schenn. So it only makes sense that when you have AHL players filling it at the NHL level, the system will change a bit because they aren't expected to be as good as the guys with the big contracts.
- wolfhounds

Makes you wonder how this team would have done had this system change been in place when our d was relatively healthy.

Its almost as if the forwards felt they had no choice but to be a little more responsible.

That's at least in part because we have a brand new defensive corps now versus when the season started, short L Schenn. So it only makes sense that when you have AHL players filling it at the NHL level, the system will change a bit because they aren't expected to be as good as the guys with the big contracts.
- wolfhounds

A lot of these kids and depth vets are also bringing a simpler game... Huskins and Lauridsen aren't going to be trying to thread a home run pass, or passing through the middle on their backhand, or clearing the puck up the middle. They're going to chip the puck out, pass short, and not get caught with the puck on their sticks for too long. Unfortunately, guys like Mez and Coburn have gotten a little bit too comfortable playing fancy pants hockey.

Yeah, I just gave you 10 "exceptions" from the same two teams, that also happen to be the two most successfully run franchises of the past two decades. Truth be told, the Penguins do the same, so there you go.


- Tomahawk

Let's go team by team this year. See what players teams are using in that role. Veterans or Rookies? What do you think you'll find? You gave outliers. As I mentioned, Rookies can be used on the PK. Some players such as Helm and Couturier, are suited for it.

If it were the Flyers, they would have kept a lot of players in the system to get "top minutes" while repeatedly handing out multi-year deals to guys like Gervais, Rosehill, and Lilja (and now, possibly Hall) to do jobs that the kids they already have are supposed to be doing.


- Tomahawk

I disagree completely that the kids are supposed to be doing those jobs. I want veteran players in those roles. Especially is they're not going to be playing on a regular basis. And are going to be 7th defenseman or 13th forwards on the roster.

Of course, Couturier and Schenn have big roles on the current club... that's because they're top prospects. We're talking about guys like Holmstrom, McGinn, Lauridsen who are tailor-made to be role players... the Flyers have to be more open to letting them assume those roles, instead of only accidentally stumbling upon the possibly due to extenuating circumstances.
- Tomahawk

I wasn't talking about a 6th defenseman or a 3rd or 4th line energy winger. I'm talking about a key PK Center who takes key defensive zone draws.

All of those players will be in training Camp with an opportunity to win jobs. Just as it is every Season. The Flyers have not shown a hesitancy to let young players make the team.

Makes you wonder how this team would have done had this system change been in place when our d was relatively healthy.

Its almost as if the forwards felt they had no choice but to be a little more responsible.
- MBFlyerfan

Yup, it definitely does. And as was stated earlier, it's quite frustrating.

That's at least in part because we have a brand new defensive corps now versus when the season started, short L Schenn. So it only makes sense that when you have AHL players filling it at the NHL level, the system will change a bit because they aren't expected to be as good as the guys with the big contracts.
- wolfhounds

It made sense to change the style of play from day 1, when it as clear that the Flyers didn't have to personell to play the ultra aggressive press forecheck. It made even more sense when it was clear shortly into the Season that adjustments needed to be made.

A lot of these kids and depth vets are also bringing a simpler game... Huskins and Lauridsen aren't going to be trying to thread a home run pass, or passing through the middle on their backhand, or clearing the puck up the middle. They're going to chip the puck out, pass short, and not get caught with the puck on their sticks for too long. Unfortunately, guys like Mez and Coburn have gotten a little bit too comfortable playing fancy pants hockey.
- Tomahawk

That's a product of the style of play that the Coach teaches, and demands. Do you really think that players such as Coburn and Meszaros aren't capable of playing a simplified game?

when I was up there in dec the mart was still there
- vejim

Thanks!

It's tough to see the development on the site of the old Mart from a bar stool at the Jug Handle.

That's a product of the style of play that the Coach teaches, and demands. Do you really think that players such as Coburn and Meszaros aren't capable of playing a simplified game?
- MJL

They are, but they don't.

And depth guys at best get benched, at worst never get called up again, if they try to do too much. That kind of threat just isn't there for established top-4 guys and hotshot prospects.

A lot of these kids and depth vets are also bringing a simpler game... Huskins and Lauridsen aren't going to be trying to thread a home run pass, or passing through the middle on their backhand, or clearing the puck up the middle. They're going to chip the puck out, pass short, and not get caught with the puck on their sticks for too long. Unfortunately, guys like Mez and Coburn have gotten a little bit too comfortable playing fancy pants hockey.
- Tomahawk

I hate that pass. Hartnell tried it last night.

Lauridsen's been taking steps forward just about every game. It's nice to see.

Coburn had about as poor of a season as one could have...I hope that pushes him to come back strong next season.

also, he looks like a weird elf
- Don'tForgetTocchet

They are, but they don't.

And depth guys at best get benched, at worst never get called up again, if they try to do too much. That kind of threat just isn't there for established top-4 guys and hotshot prospects.
- Tomahawk

The question is why don't they? Do they choose not to play that way? I don't think so. I think they are making aggressive risky choices because that is what is demanded of them. It's how this Coach wants them to play.

You're seeing less aggressive play now. And simpler plays, because they have no choice. So they've changed team wide how they play.

Either way, if it's what I think it is, or it's that you don't think players are paying the price for not playing the right way. It falls on the same guy.

Let's go team by team this year. See what players teams are using in that role. Veterans or Rookies? What do you think you'll find? You gave outliers. As I mentioned, Rookies can be used on the PK. Some players such as Helm and Couturier, are suited for it.
- MJL

There's roughly 34 rookies across the NHL that are averaging over 1:00/game on the PK. 11 of them are forwards.

I disagree completely that the kids are supposed to be doing those jobs. I want veteran players in those roles. Especially is they're not going to be playing on a regular basis. And are going to be 7th defenseman or 13th forwards on the roster.
- MJL

The Flyers generally disagree with that, too.

Whereas, the Devils, Penguins and Wings don't seem to have a problem with it at all, and they obviously don't know what they're doing at all.

I wasn't talking about a 6th defenseman or a 3rd or 4th line energy winger. I'm talking about a key PK Center who takes key defensive zone draws.
- MJL

Are you talking about Adam Hall or some Couturier doppelganger who's actually above 50% in FO's? Because if you're talking about Hall, and he's really that instrumental to success, why has he spent so much time on waivers this year, as well as time a full year in the AHL not too long ago? You're throwing the word "key" around a bit loosely to me.

The Flyers were good on the PK before Hall's arrival, btw.

All of those players will be in training Camp with an opportunity to win jobs. Just as it is every Season. The Flyers have not shown a hesitancy to let young players make the team.
- MJL

Hard to win jobs when the lineup is "set" before September every year. Like I said, Flyers love to fast-track their 1st-round picks, while letting everybody else languish with the Phantoms. Is it any wonder we can't develop later-round picks with any regularity?

I hate that pass. Hartnell tried it last night.
- wolfhounds

The worst is when they try to pass through a defender's legs, to somebody on the other side of the ice, while on the backhand, coming out of their own zone.

Hartnell makes so many ill-advised passes, it isn't even funny. When he's got the puck down deep and the pressure gets on him, his default action is to chuck the puck out into the slot, and it's almost always serves as a pretty breakout pass for the opposition.

he's way better than foster, and foster doesn't get nearly the hate on here that lilja did.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

It's the "pull a name out of a hat" technique being employed, I believe.

Lilja is supposed to be a 6th or 7th Defenseman and that's what he plays like.

Curiously, they recalled Boucher. Letsle

I might be in the minority here, but I hope they pass on re-signing Hall. Yes, he's been good on faceoffs, on the PK and has been generally effective at ES, but they've got several guys in the pipeline who are under contract who could fill that role. Re-signing Hall would only add redundancy and contribute to the perennial smash against the 50-contract-limit.

Ben Holmstrom is more than primed for the 4th-line pivot spot. He's everything that Hall is, but younger. If he hadn't been hurt at the beginning of this season, he might have made the squad.

Laughton is another candidate... ideally you don't want him to be on the 4th-line, but there's nothing wrong with initiating him in baby steps.

Then there's Talbot, whom Hall was brought here to fill in for... he'll be healthy next season, and while he's probably more ideal as a winger, he's definitely capable of centering an energy line.
- Tomahawk

heres my idea....i think you move couter to second line center put schenn on wing.....laughton can be third and hall can be fourth.


voracek - Giroux- Hrtnell
Scehnn - couter - read
Simmonds-laughton- gagne
talbot-hall - fedastanko

Curiously, they recalled Boucher. Letsle
- Jsaquella

It's probably just because the Phantoms season is over. if something happens and they need a backup for the final game. They recall a goalie every season at the end with the rest of the Phantoms.

has voracek been put in the shootout rotation this season?

the much maligned lilja did indeed play a solid game... i don't get all the hate on him.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

He should be in the 3rd shootout spot after G, and Read next year when Briere is gone.