Kadri really made Knight get drafted far too high BTW. The hype he got once Boston got him with the Leafs pick was hilarious. A ridiculously overrated prospect.

I'm going to regret posting in this thread...

It's too early to tell for sure. People were hasty in declaring the win. on paper, it looks bad, and my personal feeling is that Seguin will end up on par with Kessel, meaning whatever Hamilton and Knight do is just gravy for the Bruins.

Evidently, the trade will be judged on mitigating factors. Boston could have won the cup without Seguin, and Kessel could be re-signed by the Leafs no problem, but a scenario in which Boston wins any more cups that get hoisted by Seguin or Hamilton and Kessel walks will look bad on the leafs.

Kessel's got a great shot, one of the best in the league, and his season to season consistency is quite good. His game to game consistency has gotten better too.

Kessel gets better every year. He can still do more.

And Kessel is the sure thing out of the 3 of them.
- RogerRoeper

Yes, Kessel is at or near his "peak" in the type of impact he can make on a team..........the picks/players he was traded for are a few years, or more from reaching their "peak" or potential if you prefer.

Yes today Kessel is more of a "sure thing" than either Hamilton or Seguin are, however if those two in particular progress and develop as projected, the sum of the two may be greater than Kessel at some time in the future.............but we won't know until then.

Yes, Kessel is at or near his "peak" in the type of impact he can make on a team..........the picks/players he was traded for are a few years, or more from reaching their "peak" or potential if you prefer.

Yes today Kessel is more of a "sure thing" than either Hamilton or Seguin are, however if those two in particular progress and develop as projected, the sum of the two may be greater than Kessel at some time in the future.............but we won't know until then.
- Doppleganger

That's all I ever saw it as... a bold "win now" move that didn't result in them winning at that juncture. It's all worked out pretty well for them now though.

I was never in the camp that said that Kessel sucked or that Seguin/Hamilton were anything other than what they are: blue chip prospects who could be great NHLers

That's all I ever saw it as... a bold "win now" move that didn't result in them winning at that juncture. It's all worked out pretty well for them now though.

I was never in the camp that said that Kessel sucked or that Seguin/Hamilton were anything other than what they are: blue chip prospects who could be great NHLers
- Morris

I never understood that argument. He was 21 years-old. That isn't a win now move.

You make it sound like he was a 30 year-old veteran acquired at the trade deadline by a cup contender.

I never understood that argument. He was 21 years-old. That isn't a win now move.

You make it sound like he was a 30 year-old veteran acquired at the trade deadline by a cup contender.
- RogerRoeper

I haven't seen too many moves that see two 1st round draft picks go out for a player that aren't win now moves. I'm not trying to make him sound like anything other than it is. He's great and he's still young. It seemed like a move that aimed more at immediate success than future success, imo.

After the trade and draft, Leaf fans said it woulf be years before a trade winner could be determined. The Anti-Leafers declaired victory right away. Now the general consensus seems to be that it will be years still before a winner is determined no matter how well Kessel does. Go figure.

After the trade and draft, Leaf fans said it woulf be years before a trade winner could be determined. The Anti-Leafers declaired victory right away. Now the general consensus seems to be that it will be years still before a winner is determined no matter how well Kessel does. Go figure.
- Keva_Rosenberg

Kessel was never suppoosed to be this good and that's forgotten. He was a streaky, injury prone 60 point, one-dimensional winger who could only score goals if he had a superstar centre feeding him the puck. That's never considered in the trade. No one expected Kessel to be nearly this good.

3 and a half years later, he's PPG for the second year in a row, top 5 in NHL in assists, has never missed a single game after his shoulder injury suffered while playing on the Bruins, and can play with AHL talent and still put up impressive numbers.

I haven't seen too many moves that see two 1st round draft picks go out for a player that aren't win now moves. I'm not trying to make him sound like anything other than it is. He's great and he's still young. It seemed like a move that aimed more at immediate success than future success, imo.
- Morris

Again, he was 21 years-old. only 3 years removed from being drafted. It was about acquiring a key core piece that could help for years to come. When are talented 21 year-old players available? very rarely.

Again, he was 21 years-old. only 3 years removed from being drafted. It was about acquiring a key core piece that could help for years to come. When are talented 21 year-old players available? very rarely.
- RogerRoeper

Well that's true. Again, it was an entirely rare situation. Trading multiple 1st round picks in a non "win now" move is just about as rare as talented 21 year old players being available. Maybe that will change, but I can see where the "win now" perception came from. That's all I'm talking about: perception.

Again, I'm saying nothing to bad mouth the trade the leafs made. It was in some ways quite successful and in other ways not so much. One can't look at things entirely as a principle, nor can they look at things entirely consequentially.

Kessel was never suppoosed to be this good and that's forgotten. He was a streaky, injury prone 60 point, one-dimensional winger who could only score goals if he had a superstar centre feeding him the puck. That's never considered in the trade. No one expected Kessel to be nearly this good.

3 and a half years later, he's PPG for the second year in a row, top 5 in NHL in assists, has never missed a single game after his shoulder injury suffered while playing on the Bruins, and can play with AHL talent and still put up impressive numbers.
- RogerRoeper

Come on. A lot of people expected Kessel to be as good as you'd expect a top 5 pick who had already had a 30-30ish season.

I'm sure lots of people called him streaky, injury prone and one-dimensional and dependent. They might have said the same thing if the Leafs acquired Sidney Crosby, which I'm sure you're used to. People love to hate the leafs.

However, it's not like there weren't people who didn't like the trade without being Kessel-bashing leaf haters. I thought from the beginning that it was going to be a while before we saw what became of it. I knew Kessel was a fine player. I thought it was super risky, and it was super risky. There was obviously anti-leafs bias at the time of the trade, but that wasn't the only reason that people objected and there are a lot of people who initially objected who no longer object. My perspective's the same as yours: the ball's in Seguin, Knight and Hamilton's court for the time being.

phil is a dynamic offensive player. is on ice way more than seguin and on powerplay.
also in 7th year as a pro to seguins 3rd.

interesting stats vs. bruins
22 games he has 9 pts and is a -22
this is first year leafs have made playoffs since he arrived

seguin was part of cup run, has 3 years of playoffs and 16 pts in 16 games vs leafs
hamilton will be in playoffs in year 1 and had 16 pts in 42 games as a rookie.
knight will need full healthy year in ahl before his nhl fate is determined.

it is still pretty lopsided because of the potential but a lot will depend on next year and this years playoffs. invisiphil might prove to be just that come playoff time.

Seguin was scratched for half of that cup run. He joined a great team. That's it. Phil's playoff stats are much better than Seguin's.

Seguin was scratched for half of that cup run. He joined a great team. That's it. Phil's playoff stats are much better than Seguin's.
- RogerRoeper

lol, that's it? much better? come on stop washing his ball

seguin was a beast through the series vs the lightning when he got in and contributed vs vancouver for sure.

phil hasn't been in the playoffs since leaving boston and when he was there, he also joined a great team and played first line minutes with savard and on the pp and they won poop.

a lot is tbd. let's see how he plays this year

Seguin had one big impact game vs Tampa and then disappeared for the rest of the playoffs with limited ice (and game) time. He was almost a complete non factor outside of that one game if we're being honest.

lol, that's it? much better? come on stop washing his ball

seguin was a beast through the series vs the lightning when he got in and contributed vs vancouver for sure.

phil hasn't been in the playoffs since leaving boston and when he was there, he also joined a great team and played first line minutes with savard and on the pp and they won poop.

a lot is tbd. let's see how he plays this year
- salvadorsanchez

You mean the one great period he had?

Phil has 9 goals 15 points and is +8 in 15 career playoff games.

Are we still bringing up the Savard exucse? LOL. Phil got 82 points last season with Tyler Bozak.


Playoffs:
Seguin:
20 5 5 10 8

Kessel:
15 9 6 15 8

As of right now, Leafs got the best player in the trade, who's not exactly years and years older than Seguin. Leafs won the trade. I hate admitting it.

You mean the one great period he had?

Phil has 9 goals 15 points and is +8 in 15 career playoff games.

Are we still bringing up the Savard exucse? LOL. Phil got 82 points last season with Tyler Bozak.


Playoffs:
Seguin:
20 5 5 10 8

Kessel:
15 9 6 15 8
- RogerRoeper

Seguin scored in his first game and had 4 pts in what amounted to one of the biggest wins in the Tampa series to not go down 0-2. That was his rookie year and collectively the bruins all sucked last year.

Kessel had savard in the playoffs not bozak considering this will be their first year in the playoffs. Boston was a different team then as well.

Again points are great but they don't mean a whole lot if the team is losing.

Kessel watch is on for the playoffs. We shall see if he shows up.

As of right now, Leafs got the best player in the trade, who's not exactly years and years older than Seguin. Leafs won the trade. I hate admitting it.
- sanfordnson

Lol he's got 4 years in the league on seguin and 6 on Hamilton. Both those players are under bruins control for a while. Seguin has a cup already and will be better than Philis in a year or two. Hamilton is going to be awesome. Not going to be close when it all shakes out.

Lol he's got 4 years in the league on seguin and 6 on Hamilton. Both those players are under bruins control for a while. Seguin has a cup already and will be better than Philis in a year or two. Hamilton is going to be awesome. Not going to be close when it all shakes out.
- salvadorsanchez

As of right now, Leafs got the best player in the trade, who's not exactly years and years older than Seguin. Leafs won the trade. I hate admitting it.
- sanfordnson

[quote=sanfordnson]

Well you also said the leafs won the trade so did they win the trade as of now or in general or ?

Well you also said the leafs won the trade so did they win the trade as of now or in general or ?
- salvadorsanchez

I don't even know. It's still early here. Now I guess, with Boston having a chance to overtake them in the future. Better?

Still riding the "Kessel doesn't have Savard" train I see. I figured two point a game seasons in a row without the guy would've killed that theory but here we are.

Still riding the "Kessel doesn't have Savard" train I see. I figured two point a game seasons in a row without the guy would've killed that theory but here we are.
- daeth

He was making a point about kessels numbers in the playoffs vs seguins not regular season when Theyve been out of the playoff hunt by march 1. Can't compare the two as this is first year in 4 that the leafs have seen post season. So yeah savard point and first line / pp mins argument still valid

I don't even know. It's still early here. Now I guess, with Boston having a chance to overtake them in the future. Better?
- sanfordnson

Seguin > Hall

That ought to wake you up and half the village.

Just kidding, I wanted Hall but we will see in long run.