I have watched him tons. He doesn't always commit to back checking and because of his weak ability to win board battles he's not effective defensively either.

I've never understood the idea that Seguin is a two-way player. He hasn't shown that at any point yet. He benefits from playing (mostly) on elite defensive lines. His +/- reflects that more than his actual ability defensively.
- daeth

Of which he's 1/3 of. Not arguing he's an elite defensive forward or that he doesn't benefit from playing with Bergy, but he's a quality 2 way player and the numbers bear that out.

Regardless back to the point, BB and his PhiL love aside

, like I said most B's fans would still take Seguin/Hamiilton/Knight over Phil in the long haul 9 of 10 (not that many wouldn't have preferred Hall/Hamilton/Kinght). And I'm sure Leafs fans are growing more and more comfortable and content with the trade as time goes on and Phil improves his overall game and continues to put up good offensive #'s.

Edit: FWIW to compare apples to apples through 1st 3 seasons Phil: 0.56PPG, +5; Tyler: 0.59PPG, +53

Anyone who expected more from Seguin to this point like Daeth said, had too high expectations.

if this past year (his 3rd) wasn't a lockout season, we could make better comps. next year, if seguin isn't between 30-40 goals then we can start wondering a bit. although, I also think dougie will be a better dman and a solid top 3-4 on a solid team

if this past year (his 3rd) wasn't a lockout season, we could make better comps. next year, if seguin isn't between 30-40 goals then we can start wondering a bit. although, I also think dougie will be a better dman and a solid top 3-4 on a solid team
- salvadorsanchez

40? That's lofty on a Julien team, especially considering he's never been heralded as a pure scorer. IMO you're just looking for point generation out him and his line. If we get 30ish G's and 70-75ish points out of him on this team, it will be a terrific season.

No player has topped 80 points on this team since Savvy in 08/09, unless there's a big culture shift, you won't see eye popping offensive numbers from anyone.

Of which he's 1/3 of. Not arguing he's an elite defensive forward or that he doesn't benefit from playing with Bergy, but he's a quality 2 way player and the numbers bear that out.

Regardless back to the point, BB and his PhiL love aside

, like I said most B's fans would still take Seguin/Hamiilton/Knight over Phil in the long haul 9 of 10 (not that many wouldn't have preferred Hall/Hamilton/Kinght). And I'm sure Leafs fans are growing more and more comfortable and content with the trade as time goes on and Phil improves his overall game and continues to put up good offensive #'s.

Edit: FWIW to compare apples to apples through 1st 3 seasons Phil: 0.56PPG, +5; Tyler: 0.59PPG, +53

Anyone who expected more from Seguin to this point like Daeth said, had too high expectations.
- Double_A

No Phil love here. I'm glad left-ticle is gone with his baby fat and crappy attitude. He just outplayed Seguin this series. Can't argue that. And I expected more from Seguin this year and series

No Phil love here. I'm glad left-ticle is gone with his baby fat and crappy attitude. He just outplayed Seguin this series. Can't argue that. And I expected more from Seguin this year and series
- bruinsbeer69

Just bustin' ball ...... Ayooooo

Seriously though, not sure why it would surprise anyone that with 4 more years of pro experience Phil is a better player at the moment.

I honestly didn't have a problem with Seguins 1st round, especially the 1st 3 games and G7, generated the most scoring chances despite not cashing in. He started real slow this year (blame it on the Swiss) and still was only 4 points off the team lead in scoring. Would love for him to get tougher, hopefully he'll keep packing pounds and get some man strength in the off-season.

40? That's lofty on a Julien team, especially considering he's never been heralded as a pure scorer. IMO you're just looking for point generation out him and his line. If we get 30ish G's and 70-75ish points out of him on this team, it will be a terrific season.

No player has topped 80 points on this team since Savvy in 08/09, unless there's a big culture shift, you won't see eye popping offensive numbers from anyone.
- Double_A

eh, lucic had 30 and seguin scored 29 before. 40 isn't out of the question. if he can find the net on the PP we'll see. 30-35 should be expectation for a player making that coin and being so gifted. ole!

Just bustin' ball ...... Ayooooo

Seriously though, not sure why it would surprise anyone that with 4 more years of pro experience Phil is a better player at the moment.

I honestly didn't have a problem with Seguins 1st round, especially the 1st 3 games and G7, generated the most scoring chances despite not cashing in. He started real slow this year (blame it on the Swiss) and still was only 4 points off the team lead in scoring. Would love for him to get tougher, hopefully he'll keep packing pounds and get some man strength in the off-season.
- Double_A

Those cancer jokes dont ever get old......were going to hell

Seguin wasn't too hot again tonight but I was impressed by Boston otherwise. Hamilton was better than I recall seeing him vs the Leafs too.

2 under 21 budding stars with plenty of contract left>> 1 star in his mid twenties with 1 year on left his deal. At least value wise...

Until Phil gets extended at a reasonable #, it's a home run for Boston.

2 under 21 budding stars with plenty of contract left>> 1 star in his mid twenties with 1 year on left his deal. At least value wise...

Until Phil gets extended at a reasonable #, it's a home run for Boston.
- gretzky

How many point a game players sign for reasonable amounts of money anymore? Kessel is going to get paid, and get paid big time. There's no way around that, you can't even sign guys to front loaded deals anymore I don't believe. If Seguin and Hamilton end up being stars they'll get paid too.

If Kessel leaves though, ouch. Would be funny to see him sign in Boston.

How many point a game players sign for reasonable amounts of money anymore? Kessel is going to get paid, and get paid big time. There's no way around that, you can't even sign guys to front loaded deals anymore I don't believe. If Seguin and Hamilton end up being stars they'll get paid too.

If Kessel leaves though, ouch. Would be funny to see him sign in Boston.
- daeth

He will get paid for sure, for Toronto's sake hopefully less than 7 per. I feel you need a guy to play an elite 2 way game (as well as score) to pay a forward more than that. Someone you could use in all situations..

He will get paid for sure, for Toronto's sake hopefully less than 7 per. I feel you need a guy to play an elite 2 way game (as well as score) to pay a forward more than that.
- gretzky

Guys with Kessel's offense rarely play a great two-way game. Datsyuk is basically the only guy.

Toronto can't just let the guy walk because he isn't a Selke candidate.

How many point a game players sign for reasonable amounts of money anymore? Kessel is going to get paid, and get paid big time. There's no way around that, you can't even sign guys to front loaded deals anymore I don't believe. If Seguin and Hamilton end up being stars they'll get paid too.

If Kessel leaves though, ouch. Would be funny to see him sign in Boston.
- daeth

I agree ... not fair to assess based on $, market will dictate it. I'll be interested to see what he commands though.

I agree ... not fair to assess based on $, market will dictate it. I'll be interested to see what he commands though.
- Double_A

If the Semin deal is any indication it looks like he'll be getting north of 7 million. Guys are signing for more now than ever it seems so you can't use older deals as a comparison.

If the Semin deal is any indication it looks like he'll be getting north of 7 million. Guys are signing for more now than ever it seems so you can't use older deals as a comparison.
- daeth

yes, makes so much sense they had a lockout to fix that troubling issue. getzlaf and perry making 8mm +

yes, makes so much sense they had a lockout to fix that troubling issue. getzlaf and perry making 8mm +
- salvadorsanchez

Cap going down? Double everyone's salaries!!!@!

yes, makes so much sense they had a lockout to fix that troubling issue. getzlaf and perry making 8mm +
- salvadorsanchez

It's dumb

Good question.

The thread doesn't ask a poor question per se. It's just still too close to call. The trade has yielded intense results by now for both teams, but I will say it's not as overblown as it looked on June 25th 2010.
- Morris

It is. I think the issue I have is, it never seemed too close to call or too early to judge before any of the Bruins players played an NHl game.

Now apparently, Seguin is too young in his career to compare with Kessel. I wouldn't have an issue with these thoughts except they never existed before when Seguin was a lock to be a superstar and far better than Kessel when he had not played yet.

And the Jared Knight hype was just hilarious.

He will get paid for sure, for Toronto's sake hopefully less than 7 per. I feel you need a guy to play an elite 2 way game (as well as score) to pay a forward more than that. Someone you could use in all situations..
- gretzky

But there are so many guys making 7 million not playing elite two-way games.

Kessel is 4th in NHl scoring the last two seasons with Bozak as his centre. Enough said. He's a star who will rightfully command a huge salary.

I find the One-dimensional knocks silly. If he played in another market there wouldn't be an issue.

2 under 21 budding stars with plenty of contract left>> 1 star in his mid twenties with 1 year on left his deal. At least value wise...

Until Phil gets extended at a reasonable #, it's a home run for Boston.
- gretzky

Let's see if Hamilton becomes a star before he's billed as one. It seems these guys get branded stars without doing anything. Kadri was branded a bust at 20 for no reason.

3 years ago everyone told me the next big Norris stud and franchise D-Man was Tyler Myers. Those predictions aren't looking too good. Let's wait and see.

And Burke getting Gardiner+Lupul makes up for any problems in the Kessel trade. QWhat a steal that trade was.

It is. I think the issue I have is, it never seemed too close to call or too early to judge before any of the Bruins players played an NHl game.

Now apparently, Seguin is too young in his career to compare with Kessel. I wouldn't have an issue with these thoughts except they never existed before when Seguin was a lock to be a superstar and far better than Kessel when he had not played yet.

And the Jared Knight hype was just hilarious.
- RogerRoeper

Well don't put words in my mouth. I personally didn't suddenly come to this realization or anything.

Must have been frustrating to be talking to Trolls for a couple of years, but there's always been plenty of people who have said you'd need a while to judge the trade.

Well don't put words in my mouth. I personally didn't suddenly come to this realization or anything.

Must have been frustrating to be talking to Trolls for a couple of years, but there's always been plenty of people who have said you'd need a while to judge the trade.
- Morris

The trolls that bothered me most were the ones who worked in the media.

It's funny seeing Seguin get such a free pass in these playoffs from the media.

It's funny seeing Seguin get such a free pass in these playoffs from the media.
- RogerRoeper

Tends to happen when your team dominates. Had Boston lost to Toronto while he shat the bed things would have been a bit different. They didn't though.

Seguin has had zero impact regardless but nobody cares.

however former leaf first round draft pick Tuukka Rask has played a HUGE role in the Bruins playoff run.

makes you wonder if the leafs had not given up on him.