Hope you guys win the lottery. Jones to Colorado would be a nice story.
- Morris

That's right! We don't have to hate each-other anymore. We won't be in the same Division any longer.

I have a feeling they'll try to trade up if they don't, so I'm hoping it's us or Florida.

That's right! We don't have to hate each-other anymore. We won't be in the same Division any longer.

I have a feeling they'll try to trade up if they don't, so I'm hoping it's us or Florida.
- Steve-B

I just want Edmonton to be as far away from the 1st overall as possible. It sends the wrong message

I'm not going to say I'll miss having you guys in our division. We haven't exactly had our way with most years. Here's hoping both franchises make good on the young talent and see each other in the playfofs.

Eric Lacroix is gone as well
- Steve-B

This sends a very strong message. If we see Billington gone, then things will get very very interesting.

The habs rebuilt their culture and look what happened in one season.

If you are going to make this sort of post, at least be accurate. It was Johnson, McClement, and a pick (Siemens) for Stewart, Shattenkirk, and a pick (Rattie). Siemens and Rattie are about equal at this point, prospect wise. HF has them both rated at 7.5 C. Either could end up better than the other, but right now, pretty equal value.
They bring different things, but most teams would rather have Shattenkirk over Johnson. Just look at almost any of the projections for the US Olympic squad... people have Shattenkirk as definitely on, but EJ as a fringe possibility.
And Stewart is streaky, but still a 30 goal forward with size, whose defense has been solid under Hitchcock, while McClement is a 4th line forward you lost to free agency. So:

Rattie = Siemens
Shattenkirk > Johnson
Stewart > McClement

That is why most people say Avs lost the trade. Not because they forget about Siemens. But because they remember Rattie.
- Antilles

Rattie is SMALL and if you look deeper that hockeys future rating system, you will see Siemens has been dominating over the past year. You're kidding yourself if you think Siemens is = Rattie which is why Rattie wasn't a top 15 pick. Also hockeys future only updates a few times a year. Siemens will be amazing for the avs. Rattie MIGHT play in the NHL one day because he is a good scorer, but Seimens will be a solid player.

Shattenkirk is an Amazing player and Avs have missed him everyday since he was traded. Shatty isn't a #1D however which Johnson, although he hasn't lived up to it yet, can be.


The blues are a much better team than the Avs and they also have a better coach. No question this trade worked out great for the blues because the players you got were a good fit for what your team needed. They have the depth at forward to move stewart down when he is cold and benefit when he is hot.

I am not saying that this deal was bad for the blues or that is was better for the Avs than the blues, but I don't think this deal is as bad as everyone seems to think.

It will be interesting to see how EJ does under a new coach who doesn't use Dmen in the offense at all. How many points did people expect EJ to get in a system that only dumps in and cycles down low anyways.

That's right! We don't have to hate each-other anymore. We won't be in the same Division any longer.

I have a feeling they'll try to trade up if they don't, so I'm hoping it's us or Florida.
- Steve-B

Pretty sure, the way wild card stuff will work, Col and Edm could still be fighting each other for playoff spots. With Colorado in a division with teams like St. Louis and Chicago, and fringe teams like Dallas, Minnesota, and Winnipeg, they could easily be 4th or 5th in the division looking to grab a wild card spot in the next couple years. Same thing with Edm looking at a division with LA, Vancouver, San Jose, and Anaheim.

So, keep that hate alive.

This sends a very strong message. If we see Billington gone, then things will get very very interesting.

The habs rebuilt their culture and look what happened in one season.
- DDM-Coga

Thats a good point, a New coach, a good draft and some strong depth FA signings can turn a team around

I just want Edmonton to be as far away from the 1st overall as possible. It sends the wrong message

I'm not going to say I'll miss having you guys in our division. We haven't exactly had our way with most years. Here's hoping both franchises make good on the young talent and see each other in the playfofs.
- Morris

If EDM drafted #1 overall for 4 years in a row it would be disaster for the NHL. Spreading stars around to different markets maximizes the NHLs marketability and having all these #1 picks on 1 team just hinders that.

This sends a very strong message. If we see Billington gone, then things will get very very interesting.

The habs rebuilt their culture and look what happened in one season.
- DDM-Coga

They just better not fire Pracey or Sakic, everyone else if fair game IMO. lol

For entertainment's sake, please hire Roy.

If EDM drafted #1 overall for 4 years in a row it would be disaster for the NHL. Spreading stars around to different markets maximizes the NHLs marketability and having all these #1 picks on 1 team just hinders that.
- Meeqsb

Especially since, at this juncture in their development, adding another youngstar wouldn't help the Oilers as much as it would other teams. Justin Schultz acted as their last youth prize, and from here on out, I think everyone outside of Richard Cloutier wants to see a spread of wealth.

It was a dream scenario when Quebec took their 3 1st overalls (or the spoils thereof) to a new market in Colorado and won a cup by quickly adding some finishing pieces. Edmonton hopes to do the same thing except with no relocation!

For entertainment's sake, please hire Roy.
- TheRollingPuck

Haha yeah, he'll be just as entertaining as Torts, but less of a jackass.

Especially since, at this juncture in their development, adding another youngstar wouldn't help the Oilers as much as it would other teams. Justin Schultz acted as their last youth prize, and from here on out, I think everyone outside of Richard Cloutier wants to see a spread of wealth.

It was a dream scenario when Quebec took their 3 1st overalls (or the spoils thereof) to a new market in Colorado and won a cup by quickly adding some finishing pieces. Edmonton hopes to do the same thing except with no relocation!
- Morris

Colorado also was in a No Cap Era, paid the best players in the world some of the highest salary in the game and had a GM that had a nack for acquiring amazing players to build one of the best rosters of all time.

However once the cap came in MGMT failed to adjust and we had to trade everyone away and once Sakic retired the avs lack of quality drafting and poor planning left them with one of the most barren rosters with no prospects thats left us in a rebuild for the last 5-6 years or so.

Now a days its all about drafting well in all rounds and signing smart contracts while using trades to find the right pieces and using the FA market to build a deep bottom 6 team.

So be careful what you wish for

Haha yeah, he'll be just as entertaining as Torts, but less of a jackass.
- Steve-B

I just love that he plays a hyper aggressive style that would be a breath of fresh air to the team. Also I am sure he would help out Varly a bit too

Rattie is SMALL and if you look deeper that hockeys future rating system, you will see Siemens has been dominating over the past year. You're kidding yourself if you think Siemens is = Rattie which is why Rattie wasn't a top 15 pick. Also hockeys future only updates a few times a year. Siemens will be amazing for the avs. Rattie MIGHT play in the NHL one day because he is a good scorer, but Seimens will be a solid player.

Shattenkirk is an Amazing player and Avs have missed him everyday since he was traded. Shatty isn't a #1D however which Johnson, although he hasn't lived up to it yet, can be.


The blues are a much better team than the Avs and they also have a better coach. No question this trade worked out great for the blues because the players you got were a good fit for what your team needed. They have the depth at forward to move stewart down when he is cold and benefit when he is hot.

I am not saying that this deal was bad for the blues or that is was better for the Avs than the blues, but I don't think this deal is as bad as everyone seems to think.

It will be interesting to see how EJ does under a new coach who doesn't use Dmen in the offense at all. How many points did people expect EJ to get in a system that only dumps in and cycles down low anyways.
- Meeqsb

Rattie is small? He has put on height and weight since his draft. Give him some NHL workouts, he will be somewhere between Landeskog and Duchene size wise. Is that too small for the NHL? You have anything other than where they were drafted to support you weird idea Siemens WILL be a solid player but Rattie only MIGHT be? I think you need to be looking deeper at the site before reporting on what you believe it says. "Siemens has been dominating"?? He isn't even ranked in the top 50 prospects (neither is Rattie) that came out less than a month ago, and hasn't ever been in the top 50. Siemens is a solid prospect. Rattie is a solid prospect. Heck, Rattie even made the World Junior squad Siemens wasn't good enough for. They are about equal. Take off the homer glasses, there is a reason outside sites rank them the same.

Could Johnson turn into a #1 D-man? Sure, maybe. But Shattenkirk has just of good of a chance of becoming one as EJ does. There is a reason Shattenkirk is already getting points in the Norris voting and EJ isn't. EJ is a better version of Barret Jackman. Good enough to be first pairing on teams that just don't have any better options. But wishing for EJ to play like an actual #1 is just that. Wishful thinking.

I get that you don't see why everyone says it was a bad deal for the Avs. But I'm offering more than my own homer opinion as to why it was, while I'm not seeing much of the same from you. Shatty is better than EJ. Stewie is better than McClement. Rattie and Siemens are equal. You saying in a few years Avs will have won this trade is based purely on wishful thinking that Avs players will turn out the way you want, while completely ignoring the fact the Blues players have just a good, if not better chance, of continuing to improve, while Blues are already clearly ahead.

Finally:

I am not saying that this deal was bad for the blues or that is was better for the Avs than the blues
- Meeqsb

ORLY?

Give it a few years and people will see the avs still won.
- Meeqsb

hmm.

Not surprising, with Jones, Mackinnon or Drouin drafted this year the Avs will improve next season.

Rattie is small? He has put on height and weight since his draft. Give him some NHL workouts, he will be somewhere between Landeskog and Duchene size wise. Is that too small for the NHL? You have anything other than where they were drafted to support you weird idea Siemens WILL be a solid player but Rattie only MIGHT be? I think you need to be looking deeper at the site before reporting on what you believe it says. "Siemens has been dominating"?? He isn't even ranked in the top 50 prospects (neither is Rattie) that came out less than a month ago, and hasn't ever been in the top 50. Siemens is a solid prospect. Rattie is a solid prospect. Heck, Rattie even made the World Junior squad Siemens wasn't good enough for. They are about equal. Take off the homer glasses, there is a reason outside sites rank them the same.

Could Johnson turn into a #1 D-man? Sure, maybe. But Shattenkirk has just of good of a chance of becoming one as EJ does. There is a reason Shattenkirk is already getting points in the Norris voting and EJ isn't. EJ is a better version of Barret Jackman. Good enough to be first pairing on teams that just don't have any better options. But wishing for EJ to play like an actual #1 is just that. Wishful thinking.

I get that you don't see why everyone says it was a bad deal for the Avs. But I'm offering more than my own homer opinion as to why it was, while I'm not seeing much of the same from you. Shatty is better than EJ. Stewie is better than McClement. Rattie and Siemens are equal. You saying in a few years Avs will have won this trade is based purely on wishful thinking that Avs players will turn out the way you want, while completely ignoring the fact the Blues players have just a good, if not better chance, of continuing to improve, while Blues are already clearly ahead.

Finally:


ORLY?



hmm.
- Antilles

Do you have a link to the recent top 50? Because last I checked they only put out the preseason 2012-13 with a majority of the list playing in the NHL this year. If you have any recent articles/reliable sites with both of them on there I'd love to read them. This last year Siemens played 70 games had 32 points, 109 PIM and was a +31 after a bad year last year which saw him fall of the raydar a bit. For a very physical Dman the avs have missed those aren't bad stats.

Rattie is 179lbs 20 years old and 6ft so he still has quite aways to go before he reaches 200lbs. He is a great scorer however and looks like a boss. It should be interesting to see how he translates to the NHL.

Shatty will never be a #1 Dman, on any team. He could be the best Dman on a team but he isn't a #1, he is more of a #2 Rafalski type of player. The blues have a #1 in Piet who is also one of the best 5 Dmen in the world today.

Shatty finished 25th in Dmen Scoring and is not in contention for the norris, so take off your homer glasses. If you don't think Johnson can be a #1 Dman, thats fine but I disagree with you, (also it would help if he had someone to play with not named Hunwick or Zannon for christ sake)

If you want to be more correct, the trade actually broke down to

Stewart for EJ
Shatty for the #1(seimens)
Mclement for #2 (rattie)

What you aren't taking into account in all of this is that I am purely looking at this from the Avs point of view. I am saying that "EJ and Seimens will be a better fit on the avs team than Stewart and Shatty would be" hence I think the avs "won the trade" and so did the blues. We have Gabe and a ton of small puck moving Dmen at the time while the blues had a Piets and were looking for a power forward.

The blues are an amazing team right now. They are one of the deepest in all of hockey and have one of the best Dcores in the league as well. So Stew and Shatty are surrounded by tons of high quality talent every game.

This avs team is just awful this year. The avs have 2-4 dmen on the ice all year that shouldn't even be in the NHL. EJ was our only good Dman, Hejda was pretty decent and we had some rookies play alright. Sacco wouldn't know what offense was if he walked in on it cheating with his wife got up and punched him in the face.

So if we are comparing how players are doing on a team that almost won the presidents trophy last year to a team that is drafting #2 overall this year I would hope it went in your favor. Thats why I try to judge players on talent.

Either way we will give it time and we will see how it turns out. Until then I still love the blues teams, Tarensenko is a BEAST and how could you not love Shatty.

Not surprising, with Jones, Mackinnon or Drouin drafted this year the Avs will improve next season.
- Thehabsfan93

I think a new coach could really turn this team around quickly as well. We have a much better offense than our goals for over the past few years would show. I am excited as hell to see how the avs turn out next year.

I just love that he plays a hyper aggressive style that would be a breath of fresh air to the team. Also I am sure he would help out Varly a bit too
- Meeqsb

I have attended many 'Q games and have seen the Remparts on numerous occasions. The best comparison to how they play would be Lavy/Flyers hockey.

Rattie is small? He has put on height and weight since his draft. Give him some NHL workouts, he will be somewhere between Landeskog and Duchene size wise. Is that too small for the NHL? You have anything other than where they were drafted to support you weird idea Siemens WILL be a solid player but Rattie only MIGHT be? I think you need to be looking deeper at the site before reporting on what you believe it says. "Siemens has been dominating"?? He isn't even ranked in the top 50 prospects (neither is Rattie) that came out less than a month ago, and hasn't ever been in the top 50. Siemens is a solid prospect. Rattie is a solid prospect. Heck, Rattie even made the World Junior squad Siemens wasn't good enough for. They are about equal. Take off the homer glasses, there is a reason outside sites rank them the same.

Could Johnson turn into a #1 D-man? Sure, maybe. But Shattenkirk has just of good of a chance of becoming one as EJ does. There is a reason Shattenkirk is already getting points in the Norris voting and EJ isn't. EJ is a better version of Barret Jackman. Good enough to be first pairing on teams that just don't have any better options. But wishing for EJ to play like an actual #1 is just that. Wishful thinking.

I get that you don't see why everyone says it was a bad deal for the Avs. But I'm offering more than my own homer opinion as to why it was, while I'm not seeing much of the same from you. Shatty is better than EJ. Stewie is better than McClement. Rattie and Siemens are equal. You saying in a few years Avs will have won this trade is based purely on wishful thinking that Avs players will turn out the way you want, while completely ignoring the fact the Blues players have just a good, if not better chance, of continuing to improve, while Blues are already clearly ahead.

Finally:


ORLY?



hmm.
- Antilles

Long story short. You guys are winning the trade, if Seimen pans out, he makes the trade more tolerable for us. But when you look at all the pieces that traded hands, you got the best player and the better assets. Its not like you robbed us blind, we did get some nice assets back but we gave up more than we got back.

You could trade Stewart or Shattenkirk separately and get more for them than we could trade for EJ again.

Long story short. You guys are winning the trade, if Seimen pans out, he makes the trade more tolerable for us. But when you look at all the pieces that traded hands, you got the best player and the better assets. Its not like you robbed us blind, we did get some nice assets back but we gave up more than we got back.

You could trade Stewart or Shattenkirk separately and get more for them than we could trade for EJ again.
- DDM-Coga

I also disagree, we could get WAAAAY more for EJ than they could get for Shatty

I really think if you gave EJ a real partner who he could stay with for an entire year that would change.

I will even say if the Avs can get Jones, him and EJ would be a very Legitimate top pairing threat.

Avs traded substance for players who would add a new Dynamic that the team was lacking at the time. Now that we have Gabe I think adding 2 top 4 defensemen with size, skill and grit for the future is worth a sporadic winger (as good offensively as he is) and unfortunately Shatty

I also disagree, we could get WAAAAY more for EJ than they could get for Shatty

I really think if you gave EJ a real partner who he could stay with for an entire year that would change.

I will even say if the Avs can get Jones, him and EJ would be a very Legitimate top pairing threat.

Avs traded substance for players who would add a new Dynamic that the team was lacking at the time. Now that we have Gabe I think adding 2 top 4 defensemen with size, skill and grit for the future is worth a sporadic winger (as good offensively as he is) and unfortunately Shatty
- Meeqsb

I still like having EJ, we needed a big stud potential Dman, I just dont like that we gave up Shatty as well for him, without really knowing at the time if Barrie or Elliott can walk in and become that puck moving dman that we all believed we had. In my mind, the deal was Fair with Stewy for EJ, everything else just muddled up the values.

Like I said, at the time its St Louis return that is winning. We could have the potential to wash the trade if EJ improved and Seimen pans out, but until then I think we need to swallow our pride and call a spade a spade.

But with a new coach, and potential upgrade to the backend, I have faith that we will see a different EJ next season.

I still like having EJ, we needed a big stud potential Dman, I just dont like that we gave up Shatty as well for him, without really knowing at the time if Barrie or Elliott can walk in and become that puck moving dman that we all believed we had. In my mind, the deal was Fair with Stewy for EJ, everything else just muddled up the values.

Like I said, at the time its St Louis return that is winning. We could have the potential to wash the trade if EJ improved and Seimen pans out, but until then I think we need to swallow our pride and call a spade a spade.

But with a new coach, and potential upgrade to the backend, I have faith that we will see a different EJ next season.
- DDM-Coga

I think at the time EJ was still worth much more than Stewart. You guys need some positive figures to take over this team. Or EJ is just gonna continue to plummet into obscurity.

I still like having EJ, we needed a big stud potential Dman, I just dont like that we gave up Shatty as well for him, without really knowing at the time if Barrie or Elliott can walk in and become that puck moving dman that we all believed we had. In my mind, the deal was Fair with Stewy for EJ, everything else just muddled up the values.

Like I said, at the time its St Louis return that is winning. We could have the potential to wash the trade if EJ improved and Seimen pans out, but until then I think we need to swallow our pride and call a spade a spade.

But with a new coach, and potential upgrade to the backend, I have faith that we will see a different EJ next season.
- DDM-Coga

EJ is only 25 and it takes most Dmen until they are about 23 to really fully develope anyways. Give it time. Now they we can go and get a real coach and hopefully find him a partner will help out quite a bit. Things change season by season in hockey which is why you always sell high and buy low.

Also Shatty is 3 years older than Barrie and 2 older than elliot so give them time.

Rome wasn't built in a day and the same goes for hockey, have to have patience and let your players develop just like we waited on shatty

I think at the time EJ was still worth much more than Stewart. You guys need some positive figures to take over this team. Or EJ is just gonna continue to plummet into obscurity.
- poisondhearts37

He has had some rough injuries over the past few years and had to play with Zanon and hunwick all season. I think he will turn things around

Eric Lacroix has left the Avs MGMT as well after the Sacco firing