EJ is only 25 and it takes most Dmen until they are about 23 to really fully develope anyways. Give it time. Now they we can go and get a real coach and hopefully find him a partner will help out quite a bit. Things change season by season in hockey which is why you always sell high and buy low.

Also Shatty is 3 years older than Barrie and 2 older than elliot so give them time.

Rome wasn't built in a day and the same goes for hockey, have to have patience and let your players develop just like we waited on shatty
- Meeqsb

Shatty is also light years better than both Barrie and Elliot. With or wthout bad partners EJ should be able to be stable and hold down the fort a little bit. Im not saying things wont change. But hopefully you guys can find him a suitable partner going forward. As the other AV's fan has said. ATM STL deff is winning the trade. If and when Siemens makes the jump and shows hes a capable NHL dman and EJ gets on the right path than the AV's could talk about the trade being good for them. Av's would be better right now with both Stewart and Shatty rather than EJ alone.

EJ is only 25 and it takes most Dmen until they are about 23 to really fully develope anyways. Give it time. Now they we can go and get a real coach and hopefully find him a partner will help out quite a bit. Things change season by season in hockey which is why you always sell high and buy low.

Also Shatty is 3 years older than Barrie and 2 older than elliot so give them time.

Rome wasn't built in a day and the same goes for hockey, have to have patience and let your players develop just like we waited on shatty
- Meeqsb

More interesting storyline going into next season is what a new coach going to do with Stastny. Finally end the speculation on if he still can be a productive offensive centermen.

More interesting storyline going into next season is what a new coach going to do with Stastny. Finally end the speculation on if he still can be a productive offensive centermen.
- DDM-Coga

I have and always will like Stastny. I think you guys are better off keeping him atm. Unless maybe its brings you the key D partner for EJ. Otherwise just run with him.

I also disagree, we could get WAAAAY more for EJ than they could get for Shatty
I really think if you gave EJ a real partner who he could stay with for an entire year that would change.

I will even say if the Avs can get Jones, him and EJ would be a very Legitimate top pairing threat.

Avs traded substance for players who would add a new Dynamic that the team was lacking at the time. Now that we have Gabe I think adding 2 top 4 defensemen with size, skill and grit for the future is worth a sporadic winger (as good offensively as he is) and unfortunately Shatty
- Meeqsb

Vehemently, but respectfully, disagree with that.

Shatty is also light years better than both Barrie and Elliot. With or wthout bad partners EJ should be able to be stable and hold down the fort a little bit. Im not saying things wont change. But hopefully you guys can find him a suitable partner going forward. As the other AV's fan has said. ATM STL deff is winning the trade. If and when Siemens makes the jump and shows hes a capable NHL dman and EJ gets on the right path than the AV's could talk about the trade being good for them. Av's would be better right now with both Stewart and Shatty rather than EJ alone.
- poisondhearts37

That is true, however the year the trade was made both elliot and barrie won defensemen of the year in their league and it contributed to the decision.

EJ being partnered with zanon and hunwick (besides the fact that neither are NHL worth dman) is more to take note that he had to overcompensate for their bad play which limited his ability to jump up into the play because he couldn't trust his partner to back him up. He certainly needs to play better and put up more numbers but if anything he was very good defensively for us when he was healthy.

Vehemently, but respectfully, disagree with that.
- sanfordnson

I'm sorry, I meant to say Stewart.

I have and always will like Stastny. I think you guys are better off keeping him atm. Unless maybe its brings you the key D partner for EJ. Otherwise just run with him.
- poisondhearts37

I am sure we will run with him, but all depends on the draft. If we end up with McKinnon im sure we will ship Stastny out.

I have and always will like Stastny. I think you guys are better off keeping him atm. Unless maybe its brings you the key D partner for EJ. Otherwise just run with him.
- poisondhearts37

I have heard that the avs have already decided to trade stastny at the trade deadline due to the utter lack of quality forwards in this years UFA pool.

I think with a new coach stastny could have an instant turn around for us and really improve his trade value, but on the other hand if we can use stastny to swap for the #1 draft pick I would do it in a heartbeat

I am sure we will run with him, but all depends on the draft. If we end up with McKinnon im sure we will ship Stastny out.
- DDM-Coga

If we draft Mckinnon I think BOTH stastny and RoR are gone

If we draft Mckinnon I think BOTH stastny and RoR are gone
- Meeqsb

I still wonder about Hishon. If he can bounce back from this latest injury, he looked good in the AHL, very dynamic. That would make both O'Reilly and Stastny more than expendable.

If we draft Mckinnon I think BOTH stastny and RoR are gone
- Meeqsb

You have no other center like RoR. Mckinnon isnt gonna do what he does. Mckinnon isnt even a NHL ready player. Any team who put him on theyre starting roster is making a huge mistake. Wicked talented for sure. But dont rush him.

More interesting storyline going into next season is what a new coach going to do with Stastny. Finally end the speculation on if he still can be a productive offensive centermen.
- DDM-Coga

What I think alot of people forget to notice is stastny scores a good amount of goals in his point totals, because of this his playstyle he benefits a ton from players being in high scoring lanes and uses his great passing to set them up.......which saccos style had none of lmao. A new coach could resurrect his career

I don't have the will to respond to all the people talking about Siemens so I'll just say this:

Siemens is not a top 50 prospect on HF because he simply does not have the offensive element to his game. However, if the Avs somehow get Seth Jones, you could see the two of them become one of the dominant defensive pairings in the NHL within five years. Jones is positional, Siemens is physical. Both have the size and length to be good. With Siemens back, Jones could jump into the play and be free to carry the puck while Siemens sits back. In the zone, Jones could play the angles while Siemens plays the man.

Talking to Siemens he's a guy that loves the big hit (when he can do it safely) and loves to get in the dirty parts of the ice and mix it up. Together, Jones and Siemens could be great.

You have no other center like RoR. Mckinnon isnt gonna do what he does. Mckinnon isnt even a NHL ready player. Any team who put him on theyre starting roster is making a huge mistake. Wicked talented for sure. But dont rush him.
- poisondhearts37

McKinnon would be seen as the teams future and long term #2 center. RoR makes too much money and after the contract dispute made things very messy between everyone. His Qualifying offer number is also 6.5M so if they don't find a way around that he is gone reguardless.

It wouldn't be right away because we aren't able to trade RoR until around the time of next years trade deadline or in the offseason at which point Mckinnon would be given a shot.

However I would see the drafting of Mckinnon as a sign that the avs are moving in the direction of trading away the 2 centers to help fill the other holes in this team and going to a more traditional top 6 bottom 6 style makeup with the roster.

I dont want the avs to draft Mckinnon cuz he is ugly as (frank) lmao

You have no other center like RoR. Mckinnon isnt gonna do what he does. Mckinnon isnt even a NHL ready player. Any team who put him on theyre starting roster is making a huge mistake. Wicked talented for sure. But dont rush him.
- poisondhearts37

Depends on the scouts you talk to. Some think MacKinnon is NHL ready, some are wait-and-see and some say he could use another year. He and Druin are maybes in the NHL-ready equation while Jones and Barkovs are in the most likely category.

Though, in the future having the R-L combination of MacKinnon and Duchene would be great, particularly on the powerplay.

I still wonder about Hishon. If he can bounce back from this latest injury, he looked good in the AHL, very dynamic. That would make both O'Reilly and Stastny more than expendable.
- DDM-Coga

We can't rely on Hishon right now after the horrid luck he has had with concussions to this date. What ever he turns out to be will just be what we get but he is more of a non factor.

Fun Fact: The avs had their sights deadset on drafting Tarensenko with that #1 pick but just a few pick before the avs were going to get him STL traded up and snagged him from us which led to the avs getting hishon. I am still to this day bitter lmao

What I think alot of people forget to notice is stastny scores a good amount of goals in his point totals, because of this his playstyle he benefits a ton from players being in high scoring lanes and uses his great passing to set them up.......which saccos style had none of lmao. A new coach could resurrect his career
- Meeqsb

Our top 3 lines are going to look quiet different next season. Really only have 6 out of 9 confirmed. Return of Downie, a free agent and/or Drouin are goign to make things interesting.

Landeskog/Duchene/Parenteau
(Drouin,Free Agent)/O'Reilly/Downie
McGinn/Stastny/(Free Agent,Jones maybe)

Since Jones should be bought out, even thought I think they will keep him with a new coach now.

Do you have a link to the recent top 50? Because last I checked they only put out the preseason 2012-13 with a majority of the list playing in the NHL this year. If you have any recent articles/reliable sites with both of them on there I'd love to read them. This last year Siemens played 70 games had 32 points, 109 PIM and was a +31 after a bad year last year which saw him fall of the raydar a bit. For a very physical Dman the avs have missed those aren't bad stats.

Rattie is 179lbs 20 years old and 6ft so he still has quite aways to go before he reaches 200lbs. He is a great scorer however and looks like a boss. It should be interesting to see how he translates to the NHL.

Shatty will never be a #1 Dman, on any team. He could be the best Dman on a team but he isn't a #1, he is more of a #2 Rafalski type of player. The blues have a #1 in Piet who is also one of the best 5 Dmen in the world today.

Shatty finished 25th in Dmen Scoring and is not in contention for the norris, so take off your homer glasses. If you don't think Johnson can be a #1 Dman, thats fine but I disagree with you, (also it would help if he had someone to play with not named Hunwick or Zannon for christ sake)

If you want to be more correct, the trade actually broke down to

Stewart for EJ
Shatty for the #1(seimens)
Mclement for #2 (rattie)

What you aren't taking into account in all of this is that I am purely looking at this from the Avs point of view. I am saying that "EJ and Seimens will be a better fit on the avs team than Stewart and Shatty would be" hence I think the avs "won the trade" and so did the blues. We have Gabe and a ton of small puck moving Dmen at the time while the blues had a Piets and were looking for a power forward.

The blues are an amazing team right now. They are one of the deepest in all of hockey and have one of the best Dcores in the league as well. So Stew and Shatty are surrounded by tons of high quality talent every game.

This avs team is just awful this year. The avs have 2-4 dmen on the ice all year that shouldn't even be in the NHL. EJ was our only good Dman, Hejda was pretty decent and we had some rookies play alright. Sacco wouldn't know what offense was if he walked in on it cheating with his wife got up and punched him in the face.

So if we are comparing how players are doing on a team that almost won the presidents trophy last year to a team that is drafting #2 overall this year I would hope it went in your favor. Thats why I try to judge players on talent.

Either way we will give it time and we will see how it turns out. Until then I still love the blues teams, Tarensenko is a BEAST and how could you not love Shatty.
- Meeqsb

Link to the most recent Top 50, from the very website you said Siemens "has been dominating."
http://www.hockeysfuture....of-the-top-nhl-prospects/

How exactly is Siemens dominating again?


Link to the Norris voting last year, in which Shatty received a vote while EJ did not:
http://sports.yahoo.com/b...g-nhl-020404507--nhl.html

How is my saying " There is a reason Shattenkirk is already getting points in the Norris voting and EJ isn't" me having homer glasses again? I never said I predict Shatty will be a #1 defenseman. What I said was "Shattenkirk has just of good of a chance of becoming one as EJ does." I don't think either will. But they both have about an equal shot at this point.


And... now your trying to say both teams won, but your only looking at it from an Av's point of view. Sorry; this is sports. When one team wins, means the other team loses. I know the NHL may not have them anymore, but both teams being equal is a tie, not Av's winning, as you claimed happened here. And even purely from an Av's point of view, I'm not sure how you don't see this: if you had Shattenkirk, Stewart, and Rattie you would get a lot more than EJ and Siemens for them right now. That's why everyone views the Avs as losing. Even with your "better fit" logic, you got far less value than you gave.

And people here are still forgetting Rattie. The player good enough to make the World JR's squad while Siemens was not. You keep projecting Siemens to be as good as you hope, but Rattie gets ignored from the equation. EJ to be as good as you hope, while expecting players around the same age as EJ to stay the same (Stewart, Shatty).

At this point, you're getting a bit ridiculous with the contradicting yourself:
Avs win the trade! I never said Avs win the trade! Oh you're quoting me saying that, I meant both teams win the trade!
Siemen's has been dominating that site's rankings all along, you just need to go back and read in depth! Oh, he isn't; well I don't know that site well, can you give me a link!
Rattie might make the NHL someday! Oh he's making teams Siemens can't; well he has a ways to go, but he looks like a boss and it'll be interesting how he does in the NHL.

I appreciate you saying nice things about the Blues, but really, your posts are just starting to look pointless because of all the self-contradiction.

Link to the most recent Top 50, from the very website you said Siemens "has been dominating."
http://www.hockeysfuture....of-the-top-nhl-prospects/

How exactly is Siemens dominating again?


Link to the Norris voting last year, in which Shatty received a vote while EJ did not:
http://sports.yahoo.com/b...g-nhl-020404507--nhl.html

How is my saying " There is a reason Shattenkirk is already getting points in the Norris voting and EJ isn't" me having homer glasses again? I never said I predict Shatty will be a #1 defenseman. What I said was "Shattenkirk has just of good of a chance of becoming one as EJ does." I don't think either will. But they both have about an equal shot at this point.


And... now your trying to say both teams won, but your only looking at it from an Av's point of view. Sorry; this is sports. When one team wins, means the other team loses. I know the NHL may not have them anymore, but both teams being equal is a tie, not Av's winning, as you claimed happened here. And even purely from an Av's point of view, I'm not sure how you don't see this: if you had Shattenkirk, Stewart, and Rattie you would get a lot more than EJ and Siemens for them right now. That's why everyone views the Avs as losing. Even with your "better fit" logic, you got far less value than you gave.

And people here are still forgetting Rattie. The player good enough to make the World JR's squad while Siemens was not. You keep projecting Siemens to be as good as you hope, but Rattie gets ignored from the equation. EJ to be as good as you hope, while expecting players around the same age as EJ to stay the same (Stewart, Shatty).

At this point, you're getting a bit ridiculous with the contradicting yourself:
Avs win the trade! I never said Avs win the trade! Oh you're quoting me saying that, I meant both teams win the trade!
Siemen's has been dominating that site's rankings all along, you just need to go back and read in depth! Oh, he isn't; well I don't know that site well, can you give me a link!
Rattie might make the NHL someday! Oh he's making teams Siemens can't; well he has a ways to go, but he looks like a boss and it'll be interesting how he does in the NHL.

I appreciate you saying nice things about the Blues, but really, your posts are just starting to look pointless because of all the self-contradiction.
- Antilles

Since Christmas, Siemens has put his game together and he has been dominant, talking to guys out in Saskatoon. He's focused and is playing great hockey. Not comparing him to any of the other players, just saying he his performance has ticked upward.

Our top 3 lines are going to look quiet different next season. Really only have 6 out of 9 confirmed. Return of Downie, a free agent and/or Drouin are goign to make things interesting.

Landeskog/Duchene/Parenteau
Drouin/Free Agent/O'Reilly/Downie
McGinn/Stastny/Free Agent/Jones maybe

Since Jones should be bought out, even thought I think they will keep him with a new coach now.
- DDM-Coga

I doubt Duchene plays with Gabe, I know it has been talked about but they play very different styles and don't have a ton of chemistry. Also I think the lack of playing with RoR hurt gabes numbers a bit this year. If we get Drouin I would see him on the wing with Duchene and PA which would be one dirty line. Plus we know that Downie, Landeskog and RoR can be an effective line.

Also I think Mckinnon would be a great center for gabe with his particular play style.

And people here are still forgetting Rattie.
- Antilles

How is Rattie doing after that concussion, we Av Fans all know too well how prospects and concussions dont mix

How is Rattie doing after that concussion, we Av Fans all know too well how prospects and concussions dont mix
- DDM-Coga

He's leading the WHL in playoff scoring for the Winterhawks if that means anything.

Our top 3 lines are going to look quiet different next season. Really only have 6 out of 9 confirmed. Return of Downie, a free agent and/or Drouin are goign to make things interesting.

Landeskog/Duchene/Parenteau
(Drouin,Free Agent)/O'Reilly/Downie
McGinn/Stastny/(Free Agent,Jones maybe)

Since Jones should be bought out, even thought I think they will keep him with a new coach now.
- DDM-Coga

I'd like to see McLeod stick in the top nine, as well as he played down the stretch. Maybe put Downie with Duchene for a little sandpaper and net drive.

Downie-Duchene-PA
McGinn-Stastny-Jones (assuming still here)
Landeskog-O'Reilly-McLeod/Vincour/UFA
Bordeleau-Malone-Olver

We'll have a better idea after monday

I'd like to see McLeod stick in the top nine, as well as he played down the stretch. Maybe put Downie with Duchene for a little sandpaper and net drive.

Downie-Duchene-PA
McGinn-Stastny-Jones (assuming still here)
Landeskog-O'Reilly-McLeod/Vincour/UFA
Bordeleau-Malone-Olver

We'll have a better idea after monday
- martok2309

No Mitchell?

No Mitchell?
- DDM-Coga

Forgot about him... He and McLeod are the hardest ones to pinpoint.

Maybe McGinn-MacKinnon-McLeod just to have some fun with the Announcers.