Yas are talking about the EJ deal but it was a good deal that did exactly what the teams wanted.

St Louis won the first two or three years of it, and Colorado brings in assets more than the ceiling of the players they traded out. Good for both sides.

Because Colorado would then go on to bomb a year or two, they get Landeskog and someone who's going to be a pretty darn good player this year.

That trade was like one of five hockey trades in the last five years. And it was well done by both managers.

Speculation on the next coach? Lindy Ruff?

Link to the most recent Top 50, from the very website you said Siemens "has been dominating."
http://www.hockeysfuture....of-the-top-nhl-prospects/

How exactly is Siemens dominating again?


Link to the Norris voting last year, in which Shatty received a vote while EJ did not:
http://sports.yahoo.com/b...g-nhl-020404507--nhl.html

How is my saying " There is a reason Shattenkirk is already getting points in the Norris voting and EJ isn't" me having homer glasses again? I never said I predict

zShatty will be a #1 defenseman. What I said was "Shattenkirk has just of good of a chance of becoming one as EJ does." I don't think either will. But they both have about an equal shot at this point.


And... now your trying to say both teams won, but your only looking at it from an Av's point of view. Sorry; this is sports. When one team wins, means the other team loses. I know the NHL may not have them anymore, but both teams being equal is a tie, not Av's winning, as you claimed happened here. And even purely from an Av's point of view, I'm not sure how you don't see this: if you had Shattenkirk, Stewart, and Rattie you would get a lot more than EJ and Siemens for them right now. That's why everyone views the Avs as losing. Even with your "better fit" logic, you got far less value than you gave.

And people here are still forgetting Rattie. The player good enough to make the World JR's squad while Siemens was not. You keep projecting Siemens to be as good as you hope, but Rattie gets ignored from the equation. EJ to be as good as you hope, while expecting players around the same age as EJ to stay the same (Stewart, Shatty).

At this point, you're getting a bit ridiculous with the contradicting yourself:
Avs win the trade! I never said Avs win the trade! Oh you're quoting me saying that, I meant both teams win the trade!
Siemen's has been dominating that site's rankings all along, you just need to go back and read in depth! Oh, he isn't; well I don't know that site well, can you give me a link!
Rattie might make the NHL someday! Oh he's making teams Siemens can't; well he has a ways to go, but he looks like a boss and it'll be interesting how he does in the NHL.

I appreciate you saying nice things about the Blues, but really, your posts are just starting to look pointless because of all the self-contradiction.
- Antilles

Thanks for the link

A single vote (for 5th) though means nothing lmao, just an outlier.

Shatty doesnt have the makeup of a #1 which EJ does. Just like how people often mistakes what it means to be a "bottom 6 player" or a "3rd line center" you are describing a certain skill set.

There are plenty of times when both teams win a trade, because they are at different points in their development or have different needs that the teams find mutually beneficial. Most commonly why 1st rounders for Older star players makes sense.

Yes if we had shatty, stew and rattie(current non factor in this EQ) we would be better right now than with EJ, but we are not trying to be better right now. We are rebuilding and trying to build a team that can win a cup so I would say EJ - Seimens -Mclemment fulfills that better than Stew, shatty and rattie do. Even though JayMC isn't with us anymore he was a great player that suffered from the Avs depth at center. Now he is a large reason the Leafs are in the playoffs and is wearing an A for them

There are many many many factors that play into all of this and answering "who won" depends heavily on context and perspective.

Yas are talking about the EJ deal but it was a good deal that did exactly what the teams wanted.

St Louis won the first two or three years of it, and Colorado brings in assets more than the ceiling of the players they traded out. Good for both sides.

Because Colorado would then go on to bomb a year or two, they get Landeskog and someone who's going to be a pretty darn good player this year.

That trade was like one of five hockey trades in the last five years. And it was well done by both managers.

Speculation on the next coach? Lindy Ruff?
- archromat

Roy and Tim Army are possibilities when you take into account the avs previous track record of promoting from within. I don't really think either would be the right choice.

Ruff is an extremely experienced coach who would be a good choice for us in my opinion to bring some professionalism to the Avs. I think he would be a good fit however I don't believe to the best of my knowledge he has ever won a cup and I am not sure about the whole wanting to be a GM and Coach thing, I'd rather leave those seperate.

Gwoz was recently fired from DU and I would love to see the avs try and get him. Colorado loves the man and it would be a solid choice with a good PR Dynamic.

Boucher is another high profile coach on the market. He brings a ton of intensity which could be a breath of fresh air. He never had a reliable goalie however he also was unable to make the playoffs while Stamkos and St.louis were dominating the scoring race which is a concern for me.

I think those are the main options out there right now. All of them would be better than sacco lmao

Forgot about him... He and McLeod are the hardest ones to pinpoint.

Maybe McGinn-MacKinnon-McLeod just to have some fun with the Announcers.
- martok2309

Lmao as commentated by Peter McNabb

Ty Rattie has been a scoring machine in the WHL, netting 105 goals, 126 assists for a total of 231 points in 131 games the past two years.. anyone not atleast a little impressed by those figures is kidding themselves. The blues are winning...by ALOT. I like EJ, we needed size and mobility.. i still hope he can figure it all out.. which isnt out of the realm of possibility.. hes still got time..but for the forseeable future.. yeah.. we got fleeced.

Good. Now get rid of Sherman

Thanks for the link

A single vote (for 5th) though means nothing lmao, just an outlier.

Shatty doesnt have the makeup of a #1 which EJ does. Just like how people often mistakes what it means to be a "bottom 6 player" or a "3rd line center" you are describing a certain skill set.

There are plenty of times when both teams win a trade, because they are at different points in their development or have different needs that the teams find mutually beneficial. Most commonly why 1st rounders for Older star players makes sense.

Yes if we had shatty, stew and rattie(current non factor in this EQ) we would be better right now than with EJ, but we are not trying to be better right now. We are rebuilding and trying to build a team that can win a cup so I would say EJ - Seimens -Mclemment fulfills that better than Stew, shatty and rattie do. Even though JayMC isn't with us anymore he was a great player that suffered from the Avs depth at center. Now he is a large reason the Leafs are in the playoffs and is wearing an A for them

There are many many many factors that play into all of this and answering "who won" depends heavily on context and perspective.
- Meeqsb

... ... the blues certainly had no trouble competing for a cup with shatty... or stewart.. or have to waste time trying to build to play meaningful games.. also.. mcclement is not the reason the leafs are playing playoff hockey.. probably more to do with JVR.. Reimer.. Scrivens' play while Reimer was hurt.. as well as alot of other players not wearing an A that are far more valuable.. the guy who wears our A is a piece of sh!t.. A's mean nothing in terms of value

... ... the blues certainly had no trouble competing for a cup with shatty... or stewart.. or have to waste time trying to build to play meaningful games.. also.. mcclement is not the reason the leafs are playing playoff hockey.. probably more to do with JVR.. Reimer.. Scrivens' play while Reimer was hurt.. as well as alot of other players not wearing an A that are far more valuable.. the guy who wears our A is a piece of sh!t.. A's mean nothing in terms of value
- shevy

Blues have been rebuilding since 2006 and have been in and out of the playoffs over the past few years but everything is coming together and now its just to see if you can make it past the first 2 rounds finally. I love what you guys have done with that Defence but I don't think Elliot is good enough to get you there.

Leafs are 2nd (up from 24th last year) in the league in penalty killing this year which is HUGE and Mcclement is a large part of that. JvR's scoring and the new coach are a big part of it as well but I am just trying to say don't underrate his value to the team. I am sure a Leafs fan could better put perspective on that topic than I could though.

Mcclemment also has more points for the leafs than Grabo this year lmao. So so extra scoring punch for the leafs has probably been nice as well

The A shows that they have leadership which is a much bigger quality than people give it credit for

I only have one thing to say about this. THANK GOD FINALLY.

My vote is either for Patrick Roy or Guy Boucher. Roy for obvious reasons, but Boucher got Tampa out of the toilet and to within a game of the SCF's. He knows how to motivate, but I think he lost the locker room because half of the 'veteran' players were near the same age and tuned him out on the ice, in the locker room etc. Which the Avs don't really have any vets that can do that. I hope they get it sorted before we get our balls looked at tomorrow

Blues have been rebuilding since 2006 and have been in and out of the playoffs over the past few years but everything is coming together and now its just to see if you can make it past the first 2 rounds finally. I love what you guys have done with that Defence but I don't think Elliot is good enough to get you there.

Leafs are 2nd (up from 24th last year) in the league in penalty killing this year which is HUGE and Mcclement is a large part of that. JvR's scoring and the new coach are a big part of it as well but I am just trying to say don't underrate his value to the team. I am sure a Leafs fan could better put perspective on that topic than I could though.

Mcclemment also has more points for the leafs than Grabo this year lmao. So so extra scoring punch for the leafs has probably been nice as well

The A shows that they have leadership which is a much bigger quality than people give it credit for
- Meeqsb

Im an Avs fan. I just call it like i see it. Shattenkirk and Stewart would have kept the Avs relevant.. thats not an exaggeration either. What are the team needs right now? A power forward and offensive minded defensemen.. As much as Stastnys dad was out of line with his comments about the trade, he was spot on. EJ's potential entices people but his value is no where near that. 4 assists in 32 games is pathetic. Elliott with his limited time bested that.. granted EJ was sound defensively this year but thats about it. This trade handicapped the Avs.. theres no arguing it, our rebuild is still on because of it. Jones is garbage and if stewart were here, chances are the Avs cut him loose instead of ponying far too much money for someone who will never score 20 goals again. With Shattenkirk we would have been able to trade the likes of Elliott or Barrie for a bigger mobile defenseman which is what EJ is right now... if you cant see the implications of this trade youre wearing blinders

Im an Avs fan. I just call it like i see it. Shattenkirk and Stewart would have kept the Avs relevant.. thats not an exaggeration either. What are the team needs right now? A power forward and offensive minded defensemen.. As much as Stastnys dad was out of line with his comments about the trade, he was spot on. EJ's potential entices people but his value is no where near that. 4 assists in 32 games is pathetic. Elliott with his limited time bested that.. granted EJ was sound defensively this year but thats about it. This trade handicapped the Avs.. theres no arguing it, our rebuild is still on because of it. Jones is garbage and if stewart were here, chances are the Avs cut him loose instead of ponying far too much money for someone who will never score 20 goals again. With Shattenkirk we would have been able to trade the likes of Elliott or Barrie for a bigger mobile defenseman which is what EJ is right now... if you cant see the implications of this trade youre wearing blinders
- shevy

We would have been relevant but we would have been further away from the cup.
We need a scoring winger, not a power forward. It wouldn't hurt but we have Gabe.
Lmao and we need every kind of defensemen or at least better than what we have now.

All I will say on EJ is he had an AWFUL year, but lets see how he regroups next year. Duchene had a terrible year last year and look how he turned out. He was one of our only 2 Dmen that actually knew how to play defense lmao so lets give him some credit there.

There is no way at the time to tell Jones would turn out the way he was. If you think we could trade elliot or barrie for an EJ lmao well then lets hear it lmao. I mean I see what you're saying but there is a decent amount of hindsight bias and I think you're a bit off in some areas but its always fun to hear trade proposals if you got em =P

These boys look ready for Vegas. That photo is in Scottsdale, evidently.

These boys look ready for Vegas. That photo is in Scottsdale, evidently.
- nayefj

O'Brien played nine minutes in the last game. That's all I am going to say about that.

O'Brien played nine minutes in the last game. That's all I am going to say about that.
- martok2309

And EJ's Slots Hand is still hurt...

We would have been relevant but we would have been further away from the cup.
We need a scoring winger, not a power forward. It wouldn't hurt but we have Gabe.
Lmao and we need every kind of defensemen or at least better than what we have now.

All I will say on EJ is he had an AWFUL year, but lets see how he regroups next year. Duchene had a terrible year last year and look how he turned out. He was one of our only 2 Dmen that actually knew how to play defense lmao so lets give him some credit there.

There is no way at the time to tell Jones would turn out the way he was. If you think we could trade elliot or barrie for an EJ lmao well then lets hear it lmao. I mean I see what you're saying but there is a decent amount of hindsight bias and I think you're a bit off in some areas but its always fun to hear trade proposals if you got em =P
- Meeqsb

umm what exactly do you think EJ's value is right now? Lets hear about that? Once again you are basing value on potential.. Duchene is not a fair comparable.. he had 1 down season. EJ right now is looking more like Cam Barker..granted i'm gonna be hoping he gets everything together and turns his career around.. but right now? I dont think anyone outside the Avs organization or fan base is putting a lot of faith in EJ doing so

It will all be for naught if we hire within the organization in my opinion, we need a new face with new ideas. Dave Tippet's contract is up this offseason too, could be another option after Ruff and Boucher.
- Avs-Ice

Brent Sutter?

Brent Sutter?
- whipper334

Isnt he enjoying the Red Deer life again? Portland Winterhawks headcoach Mike Johnson intrigues me, apparetnly he could be a consideration as all their big name players are leaving, and being dinged with lose of draft picks, could be his time to move on

umm what exactly do you think EJ's value is right now? Lets hear about that? Once again you are basing value on potential.. Duchene is not a fair comparable.. he had 1 down season. EJ right now is looking more like Cam Barker..granted i'm gonna be hoping he gets everything together and turns his career around.. but right now? I dont think anyone outside the Avs organization or fan base is putting a lot of faith in EJ doing so
- shevy

Doesn't matter because you never trade someone in a down year. Calling him cam barker is nonsensical though. Even if EJ never scores a point again he will still be strong enough in his own end and good enough in transition to always be a top 4.
He will rebound, so in a year or 2 it will be a non issue.

congrats boys

AVs win #1 pick!!!!! Looks like EJ found his partner!@!!

How could you NOT fire a coach after finishing 2nd last in the league and saying 'the coaches are doing the best they can' & 'we're headed in the right direction'. 14th, 11th, and 15th place in the West standings is the right direction?

Where can we find another Paul MacLean?