All the stats guys I follow/read kept going on and on about how Anaheim would be dead in 5 because they aren't a possession team and their other advanced numbers are mediocre.

That's why stats are not the end all, be all.

They're a useful tool, like a hammer. But it you use a hammer to clean a window, you're (frank)ed
- Jsaquella

Eh, let's see what happens first before proclaiming anything.

I would love it if Akeson made it difficult on the coaches to send him to ADK (or wherever the team is supposed to play) this fall when training camp breaks.

It would be the best case scenario for Akeson's career, quite frankly, if he becomes the first forward call up for the Flyers in case of injury. Even if they don't have room for him at the NHL level, maybe they trade him somewhere to a team that can make room for him.

Either way, it would seemingly behoove Akeson to train exceptionally hard this summer to move his career forward.
- johndewar

I may not be in the majority, but I dont get the hype...

Wrong. The prevailing opinion was that Couts, Schenn + shouldnt even be thought of when you have the ability to OS Weber. Thats exactly what the Flyers did.... And almost everyone was surprised that Nashville matched.


EDIT: I also love how you have so eloquently labeled Cout's fans as having a "bromance". Nope... its just not every day that one of the better defensive forwards in the game who also has the skill set to be a very good offensive forward (at age 19!) falls into your lap. It takes an educated fan to know what you have before its gone.
- jak521

There were a lot of discussions after they gave Weber the OS about whether we should take the Gratton approach and offer Nashville a face-saving trade. Many, if not most, didn't to want to include Couts in a package to guarantee getting Weber. For some it was that Nashville wouldn't match and we'd have our cake and eat it too. Others would give them a package as long as Couts wasn't in it.

Wrong. The prevailing opinion was that Couts, Schenn + shouldnt even be thought of when you have the ability to OS Weber. Thats exactly what the Flyers did.... And almost everyone was surprised that Nashville matched.


EDIT: I also love how you have so eloquently labeled Cout's fans as having a "bromance". Nope... its just not every day that one of the better defensive forwards in the game who also has the skill set to be a very good offensive forward (at age 19!) falls into your lap. It takes an educated fan to know what you have before its gone.
- jak521

ty for saying what needed to be said

I may not be in the majority, but I dont get the hype...
- jak521

Akeson put up excellent numbers in his overage year in junior (67 GP, 24 G, 84 A, 108 pts). Every year in junior, he got better and put up better numbers from one year to the next. He's got good offensive skill, but obvious deficiencies in his game.

If he can work on them, maybe he turns himself into a player. I don't think anyone expects this kid is gonna be a franchise corner stone.

Akeson put up excellent numbers in his overage year in junior (67 GP, 24 G, 84 A, 108 pts). Every year in junior, he got better and put up better numbers from one year to the next. He's got good offensive skill, but obvious deficiencies in his game.

If he can work on them, maybe he turns himself into a player. I don't think anyone expects this kid is gonna be a franchise corner stone.
- johndewar

No, but others do see him as potentially playing with Jake and G... that's insane to me.

IMO, Akeson AT BEST will be a poor mans Briere on the wing. Third line scoring forward... Idk.. I just dont think improving your skating and defense is something that happens all of a sudden over the course of a summer.

Akeson put up excellent numbers in his overage year in junior (67 GP, 24 G, 84 A, 108 pts). Every year in junior, he got better and put up better numbers from one year to the next. He's got good offensive skill, but obvious deficiencies in his game.

If he can work on them, maybe he turns himself into a player. I don't think anyone expects this kid is gonna be a franchise corner stone.
- johndewar

I think he maxes out as a 15/25/40 guy who can get spot minutes on a 2nd PP unit. A very nice, complimentary player.

Considering that half the posters here have a bromance with Couturier, just about any proposal you make is going to get crapped on . The prevailing opinion last July was there no way the Flyers should trade Couts in a deal for Weber, so that tells you something.


- TheGreat28

That's actually incorrect. The prevailing opinion was that they shouldn't trade both Couturier and Schenn for Weber. And secondly, many on here, including myself, would be perfectly willing to trade Couturier for the right player. But many, myself included aren't willing to trade him for a player based on just potential.

There were a lot of discussions after they gave Weber the OS about whether we should take the Gratton approach and offer Nashville a face-saving trade. Many, if not most, didn't to want to include Couts in a package to guarantee getting Weber. For some it was that Nashville wouldn't match and we'd have our cake and eat it too. Others would give them a package as long as Couts wasn't in it.
- TheGreat28

The whole idea of a face saving trade is to pay less then you were willing to originally, but something just to stay in good graces... Why trades couts in that scenario when you could trade other less highly rated players.

Everyone thought we had Weber in the bag.

No, but others do see him as potentially playing with Jake and G... that's insane to me.

IMO, Akeson AT BEST will be a poor mans Briere on the wing. Third line scoring forward... Idk.. I just dont think improving your skating and defense is something that happens all of a sudden over the course of a summer.
- jak521

I don't see Akeson as ever being a 3rd line player in the NHL. A player in that situation has to bring more. He has to be a solid two way player and bring grit on the forecheck. I think if Akeson makes it to the NHL, it's going to be as a top 2 line Winger. Not saying that I think he will, the odds are slim. But you never know.

That's actually incorrect. The prevailing opinion was that they shouldn't trade both Couturier and Schenn for Weber. And secondly, many on here, including myself, would be perfectly willing to trade Couturier for the right player. But many, myself included aren't willing to trade him for a player based on just potential.
- MJL

Exactly. Morgan Reilly for Couts is crazy talk. The kid has played 17 AHL games in his career. And as the "offensive force who will like take over and surpass what Timonen brought", in those 17 game he has 3 points and is a -1.

Im not saying that Reilly wont be a solid player, but you dont trade an exciting, talented, young NHL player for an unproven NHL prospect.

No, but others do see him as potentially playing with Jake and G... that's insane to me.

IMO, Akeson AT BEST will be a poor mans Briere on the wing. Third line scoring forward... Idk.. I just dont think improving your skating and defense is something that happens all of a sudden over the course of a summer.
- jak521

Akeson is going to have to make himself good enough to be a top-6 forward in the NHL, or likely become a tweener.

He has many offensive tools -- vision, playmaking, good shot -- but can his legs keep up with others at this level? Will his lackluster defensive play outweigh the offensive pluses? Very difficult to stick as a one-trick pony. He has a lot to improve upon, but it can be done.

The whole idea of a face saving trade is to pay less then you were willing to originally, but something just to stay in good graces... Why trades couts in that scenario when you could trade other less highly rated players.

Everyone thought we had Weber in the bag.
- jak521

Everyone hoped. I pretty much thought that Nashville was going to match the whole time.

Wrong. The prevailing opinion was that Couts, Schenn + shouldnt even be thought of when you have the ability to OS Weber. Thats exactly what the Flyers did.... And almost everyone was surprised that Nashville matched.


EDIT: I also love how you have so eloquently labeled Cout's fans as having a "bromance". Nope... its just not every day that one of the better defensive forwards in the game who also has the skill set to be a very good offensive forward (at age 19!) falls into your lap. It takes an educated fan to know what you have before its gone.
- jak521

Yes, Couts is a very good defensive player. I'm not ready to judge his offensive upside yet. I am not sure that he reaches the ceiling many have set for him, but I'm not going to ding him yet either because he hasn't had an opportunity to play with skill players.

I think he could end up as comparable to Kesler or Jordan Staal or Madden offense wise. Others seem to have him as a point-per-game Selke winning, game changing forward.

At this point I value a puck-moving dman much more than that. Educated fans know that defense is the hot commodity in the NHL today.

I don't see Akeson as ever being a 3rd line player in the NHL. A player in that situation has to bring more. He has to be a solid two way player and bring grit on the forecheck. I think if Akeson makes it to the NHL, it's going to be as a top 2 line Winger. Not saying that I think he will, the odds are slim. But you never know.
- MJL

I dont mean in the traditional third line mold.. I mean, he will never be good enough to be a top 6 player, but could be in the 3rd wave of scorers.. Dont get me confused... He will never be defensively sound enough to be a checking line guy.

Yes, Couts is a very good defensive player. I'm not ready to judge his offensive upside yet. I am not sure that he reaches the ceiling many have set for him, but I'm not going to ding him yet either because he hasn't had an opportunity to play with skill players.

I think he could end up as comparable to Kesler or Jordan Staal or Madden offense wise. Others seem to have him as a point-per-game Selke winning, game changing forward.

At this point I value a puck-moving dman much more than that. Educated fans know that defense is the hot commodity in the NHL today.
- TheGreat28

I think the vast majority see him bringing a very close style to that of Patrice Bergeron or a lesser Jonathon Towes.

With Couts.. if you are trading him, its for an experienced NHL d-man.. and it would have to be for a hell of a young player... ala OEL, Bogosian, etc. Might be a package deal, but thats where you look to go.

Educated fans dont trade their young star (who ranked 4th in ice time among forward, while matching up with most of the other teams top players) for an unproven player.. like say, Reilly or Reinhart.

No, but others do see him as potentially playing with Jake and G... that's insane to me.

IMO, Akeson AT BEST will be a poor mans Briere on the wing. Third line scoring forward... Idk.. I just dont think improving your skating and defense is something that happens all of a sudden over the course of a summer.
- jak521

Oh my, I don't think I'd pencil him in on the 1st line for next year. That's way, way, way premature.

As others have said, Akeson's either gotta play in the top 6 or he's a Phantom.

Stranger things have happened than a kid like Akeson training hard and working on his deficiencies to make himself into a player. The odds are likely not with him, but hey, it'd be nice for once, as fans, if something like that happened for this franchise.

Yes, Couts is a very good defensive player. I'm not ready to judge his offensive upside yet. I am not sure that he reaches the ceiling many have set for him, but I'm not going to ding him yet either because he hasn't had an opportunity to play with skill players.

I think he could end up as comparable to Kesler or Jordan Staal or Madden offense wise. Others seem to have him as a point-per-game Selke winning, game changing forward.

At this point I value a puck-moving dman much more than that. Educated fans know that defense is the hot commodity in the NHL today.
- TheGreat28

I don't think I've heard anybody say Couturier will be a point per game player. Anyways, if you're going to trade Couturier for a puck moving defenseman, why would you target one that barely has any professional experience, and has no NHL experience? I'd want a far more proven commodity if I'm parting with an important part of my team like Couts.

Oh my, I don't think I'd pencil him in on the 1st line for next year. That's way, way, way premature.

As others have said, Akeson's either gotta play in the top 6 or he's a Phantom.

Stranger things have happened than a kid like Akeson training hard and working on his deficiencies to make himself into a player. The odds are likely not with him, but hey, it'd be nice for once, as fans, if something like that happened for this franchise.
- johndewar

Id kill for it to happen.. it would make a lot of things easier for the org, but I just dont see.

Yes, Couts is a very good defensive player. I'm not ready to judge his offensive upside yet. I am not sure that he reaches the ceiling many have set for him, but I'm not going to ding him yet either because he hasn't had an opportunity to play with skill players.

I think he could end up as comparable to Kesler or Jordan Staal or Madden offense wise. Others seem to have him as a point-per-game Selke winning, game changing forward.

At this point I value a puck-moving dman much more than that. Educated fans know that defense is the hot commodity in the NHL today.
- TheGreat28

If you're not ready to judge Couturier's offensive upside, who just finished his 2nd NHL Season, then it makes zero sense that you would be willing to trade him for Rielly. Are you ready to judge Rielly's upside? Who has playerd zero NHL games.

That's actually incorrect. The prevailing opinion was that they shouldn't trade both Couturier and Schenn for Weber. And secondly, many on here, including myself, would be perfectly willing to trade Couturier for the right player. But many, myself included aren't willing to trade him for a player based on just potential.
- MJL

Just for clarification, I said include Couts in a package for Weber. So you are saying that most would have been ok with Couts, Read, Simmonds and two firsts? (As an example). In other words, any package that included Couts but not with Schenn.

Do you think that any team will trade a top-tier young d-man (2/3 years of NHL experience) for a player who is strong defensively but whose offensive game is purely "potential" at this point?

If I remember correctly, few people wanted to trade him straight up for Hamilton or PK Subban during the lockout. In another year they will be the next Pietrangelo or OEK. At some point the Flyers will have to "gamble" on a prospect if they want a 1/2 dman, in my opinion.

I dont mean in the traditional third line mold.. I mean, he will never be good enough to be a top 6 player, but could be in the 3rd wave of scorers.. Dont get me confused... He will never be defensively sound enough to be a checking line guy.
- jak521

You never know, but as it stands right now, I feel that if he will never be good enough to be a top 6 player, then he isn't likely to have much of an NHL career. He would have to completely remake his game. Which was what Murray sending him to the ECHL was all about. He's not likely going to make the NHL on his offensive ability. This is just how I see it now. A player can certainly work hard and develop other areas. And his offensive game could blossom late, such as a Danny Briere situation. You never know. He has the hands.

If you're not ready to judge Couturier's offensive upside, who just finished his 2nd NHL Season, then it makes zero sense that you would be willing to trade him for Rielly. Are you ready to judge Rielly's upside? Who has playerd zero NHL games.
- MJL

I really think it should be reiterated that Sean Couturier is not even old enough to drink yet and won't be until December 2013.

He is just a kid and will likely get better.

I don't think I've heard anybody say Couturier will be a point per game player. Anyways, if you're going to trade Couturier for a puck moving defenseman, why would you target one that barely has any professional experience, and has no NHL experience? I'd want a far more proven commodity if I'm parting with an important part of my team like Couts.
- BulliesPhan87

Here is the best part about all of this BS... We could keep Couts, not make any trades and end up getting exactly what we need.... IN THE DRAFT.

Say we do end up drafting Pulock we get a guy who scored 147 points in the WHL and was a plus 46.

Hell i'd take Pulock over Rielly in a heartbeat anyway...

I think the vast majority see him bringing a very close style to that of Patrice Bergeron or a lesser Jonathon Towes.

With Couts.. if you are trading him, its for an experienced NHL d-man.. and it would have to be for a hell of a young player... ala OEL, Bogosian, etc. Might be a package deal, but thats where you look to go.

Educated fans dont trade their young star (who ranked 4th in ice time among forward, while matching up with most of the other teams top players) for an unproven player.. like say, Reilly or Reinhart.
- jak521

I'd think maybe you start at Laughton or Cousins and hammer out a deal, if you're targeting prospects like those.